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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 15:26:43
Well, today is my 17th day on Nardil. I have less anxiety and have been able to cut my benzo use down to about a quarter of what I was using. So that's a sign it's doing something I guess.
Other than that, I am still depressed and apathetic. I am still on 45mg. I know it's early days and for most people it doesn't kick until 3 or 4 weeks or even longer. I see my pdoc on Thursday and I think his plan is to keep me at 45 for another week or two then raise it to 60 mg if I am still depressed.
No real problem with side effects except constipation. The spacy feeling has about passed. I still get it sometimes. Caffeine helps a bit with it but then I get more anxious. No real problems with insomnia just a little more time to fall asleep at night and not being ready to go to bed at bedtime.
Iam also on Geodon 80mg a day. I hope this isn't going to interfere with the effectiveness of Nardil.
I feel very blessed about the lessening of the anxiety. I was having to take 8mg of Klonopin a day to keep it at bay. Now I am only taking 2mg of Klonopin a day and 10 mg of Valium (my pdoc is switching me to Valium from Klonopin. I have been very successfy with the taper. I think the AShton manual says that 1mg of Klonopin is equal to 10 mg of Valium. I always kind of doubted that but if it's true I am now taking the equivalent of only 3mg of Klonopin a day. So that part is good.
I just wish it would work faster. I am so tired of being depressed and apathetic. It is still hard to make myself sweep the kitchen floor, make the bed, etc.
Should I stay at 45 mg for a full 4weeks or even six before going up to 60mg - let the 45mg have a good six week trial before upping it? I have mixed emotions. On one hand I would like to raise the dosage ASAP so that maybe I would get a quicker response. OTOH, I am afraid that if I go up to 60, the side effects will kick in. What to do , what to do? Follow my pdoc's instructions I guess.
Hope all are well.
Marsha
Posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 15:33:38
In reply to 16 days on Nardil, posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 15:26:43
I am also having a problem with daytime fatigue. Since fatigue and apathy are two of my pre Nardil symptoms, it's hard to put up with the fatigue.
Marsha
Posted by maxime on March 22, 2008, at 15:42:16
In reply to 16 days on Nardil, posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 15:26:43
Congrats on decreasing the benzos. Unfortunately, you are still taking a hefty dose and they might be adding to your depression. How long will it take you to taper?
I was on 4 mg of Klonopin and came off it cold turkey (with the help of Seroquel) and the fog started to leave.
Hope you find relief soon.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2008, at 18:24:29
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil » 4WD, posted by maxime on March 22, 2008, at 15:42:16
Congrats Marsha and that's right about the conversion rate. On the road to recovery. Stick with pdoc plan so far sounds like maybe half the battle is won!!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 21:34:49
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil » 4WD, posted by maxime on March 22, 2008, at 15:42:16
Thanks, Maxime,
I know I'm still on a pretty big dose of benzos but two weeks ago I was taking mg a day. It will take me a while to taper. I plan next week to lower the Klonopin to 1mg per day and keep the Valium at 10 mg. I'll do that for a week and see how the anxiety level is. I can't stop the benzos, maybe not ever completely. If I don't take them, Ihave to live with this feeling of horrible physical fear in the pit of my stomach and in my chest. Who knows, though- maybe as the Nardil kicks in more, the anxiety will lessen more. It's still a wait and see game.
Marsha
> Congrats on decreasing the benzos. Unfortunately, you are still taking a hefty dose and they might be adding to your depression. How long will it take you to taper?
>
> I was on 4 mg of Klonopin and came off it cold turkey (with the help of Seroquel) and the fog started to leave.
>
> Hope you find relief soon.
>
> Maxime
Posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 21:35:35
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil » 4WD, posted by maxime on March 22, 2008, at 15:42:16
Thanks, Maxime,
I know I'm still on a pretty big dose of benzos but two weeks ago I was taking 8-10 mg a day. It will take me a while to taper. I plan next week to lower the Klonopin to 1mg per day and keep the Valium at 10 mg. I'll do that for a week and see how the anxiety level is. I can't stop the benzos, maybe not ever completely. If I don't take them, Ihave to live with this feeling of horrible physical fear in the pit of my stomach and in my chest. Who knows, though- maybe as the Nardil kicks in more, the anxiety will lessen more. It's still a wait and see game.
Marsha
> Congrats on decreasing the benzos. Unfortunately, you are still taking a hefty dose and they might be adding to your depression. How long will it take you to taper?
>
> I was on 4 mg of Klonopin and came off it cold turkey (with the help of Seroquel) and the fog started to leave.
>
> Hope you find relief soon.
>
> Maxime
Posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 21:39:23
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil, posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2008, at 18:24:29
> Congrats Marsha and that's right about the conversion rate. On the road to recovery. Stick with pdoc plan so far sounds like maybe half the battle is won!!!!!! Phillipa
Thanks Phillipa,
You really think 1mg of Klonopin is equal to 10mg of Valium? If that's the case, I'm only taking the equivalent of 2mg of Klonopin a day, down from 8-10mg ten days ago. I don't think I better taper any faster than that. Unless the Nardil kicks in more and the anxiety lessens.
What does your anxiety feel like?
Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2008, at 22:18:14
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil, posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 21:39:23
Marsha it's always there except when asleep. So many years on benzos. Once the healing is over and not in physical pain hope to wean down more and looking for a new pdoc still. Love Phillipa ps it's tension, blurry eyes, crying at night which I try to ignore. Motrin helps more believe it or not. Still have 2 2.5mg percocets on board from the surgery . Tapering off as fast as I can. 20mg of valium not should be at l5 probably forever. And yes I do believe the klonopin is deprssing was for me and not valium so that might help nardil with the depression too. Good luck!!!!!
Posted by 4WD on March 23, 2008, at 13:57:14
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil » 4WD, posted by maxime on March 22, 2008, at 15:42:16
Maxime, when you cut out the Klonopin did your anxiety not come rushing back in? How did you deal with the fear? I know you took Seroquel but I'm already on Geodon and it helps some. (I can't tolerate Seroquel side effects).
Marsha
> Congrats on decreasing the benzos. Unfortunately, you are still taking a hefty dose and they might be adding to your depression. How long will it take you to taper?
>
> I was on 4 mg of Klonopin and came off it cold turkey (with the help of Seroquel) and the fog started to leave.
>
> Hope you find relief soon.
>
> Maxime
Posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on March 27, 2008, at 4:47:46
In reply to 16 days on Nardil, posted by 4WD on March 22, 2008, at 15:26:43
This is just my opinion, and based on conversations with my pdoc, who has prescribed MAOIs as much as anyone in the USA.
1) 8 weeks is a good trial for Nardil, but 12 is the best. You've already made it through the toughest part, the initial side effects, so I urge you to consider going to distance. If you do go 12, and it doesn't work, then you can rule out Nardil forever. For me, it kicked in at week 10, and wow. My black-and-white world became color.
2) Geodon. Not sure about that, no knowledge of that combo, altho Im sure plenty of others on here do. If you do switch, consider Seroquel. It is also for mood disorders like Geodon, and really does something special for sleep.
3) Id stay at 45mg. My pdoc says it's not the dosage, but how long it takes to become effective in your body. No need for 60, at least not now.
Proud of you. Hang in there. Take it day by day. Just make your goal to make it through the next 10 minutes, the next hour, the day. Dont worry about tomorrow or next week.
Posted by 4WD on March 27, 2008, at 20:36:31
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil » 4WD, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on March 27, 2008, at 4:47:46
> This is just my opinion, and based on conversations with my pdoc, who has prescribed MAOIs as much as anyone in the USA.
>
> 1) 8 weeks is a good trial for Nardil, but 12 is the best. You've already made it through the toughest part, the initial side effects, so I urge you to consider going to distance. If you do go 12, and it doesn't work, then you can rule out Nardil forever. For me, it kicked in at week 10, and wow. My black-and-white world became color.I saw my pdoc today and he officially raised me to 60mg. If the side effects are too much I can go back down to 45. It's been three weeks today and the general consensus was that it was time to go to 60. The second week on Nardil, my anxiety got much less and the depression started to lift but in the last two or three days, I've backslid. So he raised it. I am excited about the prospect of my black and white world turning to color. That's exactly what happened to me when I first went on on AD (imipramine) in1986.
>
> 2) Geodon. Not sure about that, no knowledge of that combo, altho Im sure plenty of others on here do. If you do switch, consider Seroquel. It is also for mood disorders like Geodon, and really does something special for sleep.I can't take Seroquel. I am a recovering bulimic and Seroquel has the unfortunate side effect of making me want to eat everything in the house. (Then I feel scared of gaining weight so I throw up.) I take Trazadone for sleep and it works really well at 100 mg.
>
>
> Proud of you. Hang in there. Take it day by day. Just make your goal to make it through the next 10 minutes, the next hour, the day. Dont worry about tomorrow or next week.Thanks for the encouragement. That's kind of what I'm doing not just with the Nardil but with the benzo tapering as well. I've cut my benzo use in half since starting nardil.
Marsha
Posted by 4WD on March 28, 2008, at 11:01:29
In reply to Re: 16 days on Nardil » 4WD, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on March 27, 2008, at 4:47:46
Hi,
What dosage were you on when Nardil kicked in for you? And how much do you weigh? What dosage are you on now?
How long have you been on Nardil?
My pdoc raised my dosage to 60 yesterday but after reading your post I am rethinking it. I think I may stay on 45 longer. I don't want to take more than necessary.
Thanks,
Marsha
This is the end of the thread.
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