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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 12:24:30
Both myself and my pdocs have been baffled by this for a long time. I have been dx'd with ADHD and Social Anxiety disorder.
The strangest part is I need MEGA doses of benzos to control the anxiety (only partially). This is one of only two classes of drugs that have worked at all for me. I have maxed out on everything else with zero effects. The other that works is stimulants. This is the bizarre part - with having such a ridiculous tolerance for everything else, it's the opposite with Stims. I have to take the tiniest dose, and even then sometimes cut those in half. When I do, on a dose that a 5 year old should be taking, I lose all my apetite, become anti-social, and anxiety goes way up.
What gives?
Thanks
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2008, at 12:43:18
In reply to Medical Freak of Nature!, posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 12:24:30
Just my thought maybe you don't have ADHD? Phillipa
Posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 12:57:31
In reply to Re: Medical Freak of Nature! » becksFLA, posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2008, at 12:43:18
Anything's possible...and I've definitly thought about it. That would explain the reaction I get to stimulants, although I do show a lot of ADD symptoms, when it comes to homework, housework, getting things done / time management. Also still leaves the question on why the only other drug I react to are benzos, and it has to be a horse dose to work.
Posted by 4WD on January 13, 2008, at 17:36:25
In reply to Medical Freak of Nature!, posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 12:24:30
> Both myself and my pdocs have been baffled by this for a long time. I have been dx'd with ADHD and Social Anxiety disorder.
>
> The strangest part is I need MEGA doses of benzos to control the anxiety (only partially). This is one of only two classes of drugs that have worked at all for me. I have maxed out on everything else with zero effects. The other that works is stimulants. This is the bizarre part - with having such a ridiculous tolerance for everything else, it's the opposite with Stims. I have to take the tiniest dose, and even then sometimes cut those in half. When I do, on a dose that a 5 year old should be taking, I lose all my apetite, become anti-social, and anxiety goes way up.
>
> What gives?
>
> Thanks
Hi,What do you mean by a horse dose? I have to take a horse dose myself of benzos to get rid of my anxiety - anywhere from 4-8 mg of Klonopin a day, sometimes even a bit more. What benzo do you take and how much?
Marsha
Posted by Maxime on January 13, 2008, at 17:45:09
In reply to Medical Freak of Nature!, posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 12:24:30
It's simply how you respond to meds. We often expect a certain result, but sometimes we get the opposite.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2008, at 19:08:09
In reply to Re: Medical Freak of Nature!, posted by Maxime on January 13, 2008, at 17:45:09
Agree and sometimes chemistry changes too and what worked one time may not now or the opposite. Just my opinion based on my experiences. Phillipa
Posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 21:34:55
In reply to Re: Medical Freak of Nature! » becksFLA, posted by 4WD on January 13, 2008, at 17:36:25
i took more than that. first i was on xanax XR, 14mg daily, noticed ZERO effect. I was able to come off of that within under 2 months. I was at 15mg of Klonopin daily, but that was a few years ago. I don't have nearly as many stressors, and have gradually sunk it way down to 5mg daily...although I defintly still feel extremely anxious often.
Posted by Abby Cunningham on January 14, 2008, at 12:30:44
In reply to Re: Medical Freak of Nature!, posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 21:34:55
Those are huge doses of xanax and klonopin! I don't know about Xr but regular xanax, 14 mg is equal to almost 280MG VALIUM! How long were you on xanax XR?
Also the klonopin is a very huge dose. I am glad you were able to reduce it to 5mg. which is equal to about 100mg valium, according to Ashton's table. Again how long were you on the K? Because many people struggle to come off 1-2 mg. of K and you were on 15? Must have been a short time?
I take 1.75mg. xanax and am very afraid I will be on it forever, as I've been on it for 20 years and to reduce it from 3mg. to 1.5mg. took me many months. It has reset my brain receptors and I can't get off it that easily. Just a warning benzos are not good in high doses. Especially for any longer than a week or two. Sorry for the soapbox rant but I would ask your doc. for something non addicting. Benzos are cruel meds. You start out taking a smaller dose and end up in "tolerance withddrawal". I am wondering if your extreme anxiety is tolerance to the benzos? Just a thought. I wish you the best.
> i took more than that. first i was on xanax XR, 14mg daily, noticed ZERO effect. I was able to come off of that within under 2 months. I was at 15mg of Klonopin daily, but that was a few years ago. I don't have nearly as many stressors, and have gradually sunk it way down to 5mg daily...although I defintly still feel extremely anxious often.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 14, 2008, at 13:05:28
In reply to Medical Freak of Nature!, posted by becksFLA on January 13, 2008, at 12:24:30
> Both myself and my pdocs have been baffled by this for a long time. I have been dx'd with ADHD and Social Anxiety disorder.
>
> The strangest part is I need MEGA doses of benzos to control the anxiety (only partially). This is one of only two classes of drugs that have worked at all for me. I have maxed out on everything else with zero effects. The other that works is stimulants. This is the bizarre part - with having such a ridiculous tolerance for everything else, it's the opposite with Stims. I have to take the tiniest dose, and even then sometimes cut those in half. When I do, on a dose that a 5 year old should be taking, I lose all my apetite, become anti-social, and anxiety goes way up.
>
> What gives?
>
> ThanksWanna hear some speculation?
The benzodiazepine receptor lies in one particular domain of the GABA(A) receptor. As far as I know, no endogenous ligand (i.e. a natural bodily substance that binds there) for the benzo receptor has ever been identified. In any case, natural mutations in the receptor structure (usually no more than a single amino acid substitution) have been identified, that significantly reduce benzo binding affinity. You sure sound like you're describing just such a situation.
Even more speculative, though, is that may even set you up for the other thing, stimulant hypersensitivity. If the GABA-mediated signal is inherently weak, the rest of the various interacting receptor types may be up-regulated in order to capture the weak signal.
There are other non-benzo GABA sensitizers, though. Have you tried magnesium? How about niacinamide?
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2008, at 12:17:53
In reply to Re: Medical Freak of Nature! » becksFLA, posted by Larry Hoover on January 14, 2008, at 13:05:28
> Wanna hear some speculation?
>
> The benzodiazepine receptor lies in one particular domain of the GABA(A) receptor.Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding receptors to the new Psycho-Babble Neurotransmitters board. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/neuro/20080114/msgs/807633.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by becksFLA on January 30, 2008, at 9:48:38
In reply to Re: Medical Freak of Nature! » becksFLA, posted by Larry Hoover on January 14, 2008, at 13:05:28
Is Mg right? Whatever. I've heard this mentioned many times before, Magnesium, Tyrosine, Taurine, many herbal, etc. supplements for anxiety/depression, but I've always been EXTREMELY skeptical about this. 1. My anxiety is so severe, and as I posted earlier, I've tried a few benzos at extremely abnormal dosing levels that did not do a thing. I can hardly believe something like that would help?
Thanks
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 3, 2008, at 1:22:27
In reply to LH - regarding your Mg post, or anybody else, posted by becksFLA on January 30, 2008, at 9:48:38
> Is Mg right?
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding Mg to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20080110/msgs/810409.html
Thanks,
Bob
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