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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tecknohed on November 19, 2007, at 4:36:22
Or if not, are there any plans for it to be?
Thanx.
Posted by Ron Hill on November 19, 2007, at 17:42:22
In reply to Is Deplin available in UK?, posted by tecknohed on November 19, 2007, at 4:36:22
Teck,
I must have had a brain f*rt when you asked me this question in our Keppra discussion above.
http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?n=66329-merck-eprova-metafolin-folate
As you know, Merck has the patent on Metafolin. Metafolin is L-methylfolate and is used in Deplin, CerefolinNAC, Metanx, and a few OTC's (although the OTC's are being pulled off the market, by and large).
Teck, read the Scientific Review. If patients are unwilling to take P-5-P and methyl-B12 with Deplin (or don't know they should), then they should take Metanx. Click the Metanx link at the bottom of the Metafolin Home Page. Scroll to the bottom of the Metanx page and notice that Metanx has P-5-P and methyl-B12 as ingredients.
Metafolin is manufactured in Schaffhausen, Switzerland by Eprova, a company owned by Merck.
-- Ron
Posted by tecknohed on November 19, 2007, at 18:24:28
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » tecknohed, posted by Ron Hill on November 19, 2007, at 17:42:22
Thanx, but I still cant seem to find my answer anywhere from the links. Guess I'll just wait 'till I see my pdoc next.
Thanks anyway.
teck
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 20, 2007, at 13:49:37
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » Ron Hill, posted by tecknohed on November 19, 2007, at 18:24:28
Hi K
Your psychiatrist will not be able to prescribe Deplin for you. I doubt he will have heard of it to be honest.
You might be able to buy it on the internet?
Posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 16:12:18
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » tecknohed, posted by kaleidoscope on November 20, 2007, at 13:49:37
> Hi K
>
> Your psychiatrist will not be able to prescribe Deplin for you. I doubt he will have heard of it to be honest.
>
> You might be able to buy it on the internet?
>
>
Thanx k. I thought as much.
Posted by KayeBaby on November 20, 2007, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » kaleidoscope, posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 16:12:18
same stuff, just have to take more.
http://vitanetonline.com/description/SN2028/vitamins/Mega-Folinic-Bio-Active-Form-of-Folic-Acid/
Posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:33:56
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK?, posted by KayeBaby on November 20, 2007, at 23:11:49
> same stuff, just have to take more.
>
> http://vitanetonline.com/description/SN2028/vitamins/Mega-Folinic-Bio-Active-Form-of-Folic-Acid/Great, thanks for that! So for just $7.52 (+ p&p) I get a month's supply of 3.2mg - just under half a Deplin pill. Sounds good!
Have you tried the company before? Are they reliable?
Thanks!
teck
Posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:44:12
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK?, posted by KayeBaby on November 20, 2007, at 23:11:49
Hang on, it says here http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1872/ that it contains 'calcium folinate'. Deplin is actually L-methylfolate, so looks like its NOT the same, though it is one step closer than Folic acid.
But thanks anyway.
teck
Posted by KayeBaby on November 22, 2007, at 1:04:47
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » KayeBaby, posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:33:56
I got two bottles and they are close to expiration but seemed to be fine. I took less that I did of the Deplin but still felt like it helped.
Get them while they last!
Welcome,
Kaye
Posted by KayeBaby on November 22, 2007, at 1:06:56
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » KayeBaby, posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:44:12
Let me double check my link because my bottle says l-methylfolate. Maybe they updated and this is the substitute.
I'll double check.
Kaye
Posted by tecknohed on November 22, 2007, at 5:27:48
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK?, posted by KayeBaby on November 22, 2007, at 1:06:56
> Let me double check my link because my bottle says l-methylfolate. Maybe they updated and this is the substitute.
>
> I'll double check.
>
> KayeThat sounds odd. Yes please let me know & if they have changed it where I might get hold of the REAL L-methyfolate. Legally of course.
Thamks.
Posted by KayeBaby on November 22, 2007, at 12:03:46
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » KayeBaby, posted by tecknohed on November 22, 2007, at 5:27:48
I posted my correction to the Deplin post above.
I was taking Source Naturals Metafolin not the one they have on the link now. If I can find a site with it I will let you know.
Sorry for the confusion.
Oh-l-methylfolate is legal, not a controlled substance. The problem is one of availability so don't worry.
Kaye
Posted by Ron Hill on November 22, 2007, at 13:52:16
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK?, posted by KayeBaby on November 22, 2007, at 12:03:46
Kaye, et al,
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that it's Merck's intention to have its patented Metafolin used strictly in Rx products. All of the OTC's (except one) containing Metafolin are slowly but surely becoming unavailable. I'm sure this is what you will find when you look for the Source Naturals Metafolin product. Source Naturals is now selling a product called MegaFolinic, which is not L-methylfolate.
As you know, Metafolin is Merck's brand name for their patented L-methylfolate product. It is not the L-methylfolate itself that is patented. They couldn't patent L-methylfolate even if they wanted to, because it is a naturally occurring substance. Instead, Eprova, a company wholly owned by Merck, holds the patent for the PROCESS that they use to make L-methylfolate. It is difficult to produce L-methylfolate in an economically viable process. As far as I know, Eprova is the only company that has figured out how to do so. I do not know of any other current manufacturer of L-methylfolate.
I alluded to an OTC exception in my first paragraph above. Unfortunately, I did not bookmark the document, but I read that Merck has made some kind of an exclusive agreement with HSFolate, http://www.hsfighters.com/ , whereby Merck will continue to sell Metafolin to HSFolate so they can use it in their OTC, so long as HSFolate contains other ingredients in addition to Metafolin. Fortunately, HSFolate added methyl-B12 and B6. It’s too bad they didn’t use P-5-P instead of B6. If this information that I read is correct, this means that patients can continue to buy an OTC with Metafolin in it at http://www.hsfighters.com/ .
As an aside, all patients using L-methylfolate should also take methyl-B12 and P-5-P. To understand why, pull up the Metafolin Home page, http://www.metafolin.com/ . Now, click on the Scientific Review button, and read page 5 in particular. This is part of the reason why L-methylfolate users should take methyl-B12 and P-5-P.
-- Ron
------------------------------------
> I posted my correction to the Deplin post above.
>
> I was taking Source Naturals Metafolin not the one they have on the link now. If I can find a site with it I will let you know.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Oh-l-methylfolate is legal, not a controlled substance. The problem is one of availability so don't worry.
>
>
> Kaye
Posted by tecknohed on November 25, 2007, at 16:31:05
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » KayeBaby, posted by Ron Hill on November 22, 2007, at 13:52:16
Thanks for that Ron. Wonder if they ship to the uk...haven't tried to order yet.
I did read the 'Scientific Review' but still don't understand why you'd need to take active B12 & B6 & why the regular forms of these wouldn't suffice.
Why do you think one Deplin pill contains such a high dose of L-methylfolate (7.5mg?) when its supposed to be so much more bioavailable? Surely 800mcg would be enough? Do you know the reason?
teck
Posted by Ron Hill on December 14, 2007, at 1:08:24
In reply to Re: Is Deplin available in UK? » Ron Hill, posted by tecknohed on November 25, 2007, at 16:31:05
> Thanks for that Ron. Wonder if they ship to the uk...haven't tried to order yet.
Sorry for my delay in replying.
I don't know about UK availability. This would work, albeit more expensive:
http://www.hsfighters.com/ingredients.htm
> I did read the 'Scientific Review' but still don't understand why you'd need to take active B12 & B6 & why the regular forms of these wouldn't suffice.The reason is analogous to the reason why some pts respond better to L-methylfolate instead of folic acid.
Pyridoxine HCl (B6) must be converted in the liver to P-5-P before it can cross the blood-brain barrier and serve as a reactant and catalyst in neurological biochemical reactions.
In a similar fashion, cyanocobalamin must be converted to methylcobalamin before it can be used in the brain. Further, I refuse to take cyanocobalamin because, as I understand it, cyanide is a reaction product in the conversion.
> Why do you think one Deplin pill contains such a high dose of L-methylfolate (7.5mg?) when its supposed to be so much more bioavailable? Surely 800mcg would be enough? Do you know the reason?I've wondered the same thing. Anecdotally, when I first started taking Deplin, 15 mg/day provided the best response. But, after 38 days of good response from Deplin, I became very depressed and I could not figure out why. I stopped taking Deplin, and the depression went away. Turns out that I needed to dramatically reduce my Deplin dosage after the initial month of start up.
The need to reduce the intake of L-methylfolate as time on the med increases is consistent with the graphs Figure 1 and Figure 2 in the following article.
The article addresses a completely different subject than what we are discussing here, and so do the figures. However, the figures show that the longer the pt takes a constant dosage of L-methylfolate, the red blood cell and plasma concentrations continue to rise.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/1/156#F1
So this means that in order to hold the blood level concentrations of folate constant at the optimal therapeutic value, the dosage intake has to be continually reduced the longer and longer that we take the medication. Does this make sense?
> teck-- Ron
Currently in near-full remission.
dx: Bipolar II, with ultra rapid cycling (15 days for one complete cycle), and mild Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
875 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil
1.875 mg/day Deplin (1/4 of a 7.5 mg tablet = 1.875 mg)
50 mg/day P-5-P
3000 ug/day Methyl-B12A few miscellaneous other vitamins and supplements: zinc, phosphatidylserine, selenium, vitamin D, Mg Malate/dietary Ca in yogurt etc, liquid fish oil, a good daily multiple vitamin.
Posted by Catbee on April 2, 2012, at 15:49:48
In reply to Is Deplin available in UK?, posted by tecknohed on November 19, 2007, at 4:36:22
> Or if not, are there any plans for it to be?
>
> Thanx.I had just learned about Deplin and the good responses some people have to it when I came across your post. Do you have any more current information on its availability in the UK? Are any trials being done?
This is the end of the thread.
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