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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tecknohed on October 14, 2007, at 9:08:48
Cant take no more. The sedation is just too unbearable. So I trashed my Remeron. It was a completely instinctive move, one which I should have done 2 weeks ago. I'm not tapering - just want it out of my system.
The sedation is just so inpracticle for me too. I already suffer with hypersomnia & the drug just made that worse. It also is ruining my enjoyment of my favourite hobby - fishing, which involves 'night fishing'. I love this hobby and am not willing to give ANY of it up in exchange for a damn side effect!
I see my pdoc in 8 days time. I'm gonna give Marplan another go, but this time I'll be armed with clonazepam 3mg/day (last time I tried it I went solo & found it too 'activating' - didn't help my SP).
In the meantime I have my clon for my nerves, diphenhydramine for sleep & some 5-HTP for when my mood drops.
Dont know if I'll feel like posting in the next few weeks, but I'll try.
Thanx for all the support & feedback during my recent trial & error.
teck
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2007, at 10:18:37
In reply to Remeron - just trashed it!, posted by tecknohed on October 14, 2007, at 9:08:48
How long was your trial? Phillipa ps good luck
Posted by tecknohed on October 14, 2007, at 11:03:30
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » tecknohed, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2007, at 10:18:37
> How long was your trial? Phillipa ps good luck
4 weeks. In many peoples eyes not long enough. But its not so much a lack of efficacy - it was starting to help a bit. I just HATE!!!!!!!! feeling sedated & didn't beleive the sedation would ever go. There were other possible consequences too - sedation & diabetes dont mix.
I'll never use it as a primary med again, though I might consider it as a low-dose addon if I ever get sexual dysfunction from another drug (highly likely!). Remeron certainly increased my libido!
Posted by King of Nothing on October 14, 2007, at 13:03:26
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » Phillipa, posted by tecknohed on October 14, 2007, at 11:03:30
> > How long was your trial? Phillipa ps good luck
>
> 4 weeks. In many peoples eyes not long enough. But its not so much a lack of efficacy - it was starting to help a bit. I just HATE!!!!!!!! feeling sedated & didn't beleive the sedation would ever go. There were other possible consequences too - sedation & diabetes dont mix.
>
> I'll never use it as a primary med again, though I might consider it as a low-dose addon if I ever get sexual dysfunction from another drug (highly likely!). Remeron certainly increased my libido!
>
>
I don't blame you...good luck Man.
Posted by tecknohed on October 14, 2007, at 14:03:35
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » tecknohed, posted by King of Nothing on October 14, 2007, at 13:03:26
Posted by sdb on October 19, 2007, at 13:54:19
In reply to Remeron - just trashed it!, posted by tecknohed on October 14, 2007, at 9:08:48
> Cant take no more. The sedation is just too unbearable. So I trashed my Remeron. It was a completely instinctive move, one which I should have done 2 weeks ago. I'm not tapering - just want it out of my system.
>
> The sedation is just so inpracticle for me too. I already suffer with hypersomnia & the drug just made that worse. It also is ruining my enjoyment of my favourite hobby - fishing, which involves 'night fishing'. I love this hobby and am not willing to give ANY of it up in exchange for a damn side effect!
>
> I see my pdoc in 8 days time. I'm gonna give Marplan another go, but this time I'll be armed with clonazepam 3mg/day (last time I tried it I went solo & found it too 'activating' - didn't help my SP).
>
> In the meantime I have my clon for my nerves, diphenhydramine for sleep & some 5-HTP for when my mood drops.
>
> Dont know if I'll feel like posting in the next few weeks, but I'll try.
>
> Thanx for all the support & feedback during my recent trial & error.
>
> teckI don't think Remeron is a good med to treat anxiety primarily this because it increases noradrenaline at higher dosages. It is indeed very sedating especially in the first days, regardless of the dosage (!) and the sex-drive can be big for many persons. I know that a depressed post heart stroke patient did well on it for some weeks. Personally I took extremely low dosages and I used it as a sleep med during an emotional shock period.
warm regards
sdb
Posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2007, at 15:17:25
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it!, posted by sdb on October 19, 2007, at 13:54:19
> I don't think Remeron is a good med to treat anxiety primarily this because it increases noradrenaline at higher dosages. It is indeed very sedating especially in the first days, regardless of the dosage (!) and the sex-drive can be big for many persons. I know that a depressed post heart stroke patient did well on it for some weeks. Personally I took extremely low dosages and I used it as a sleep med during an emotional shock period.
>
> warm regards
>
> sdbThanx for your input sdb!
You know, since stopping Remeron the most bizzare thing has happened. I've actually been feeling better! Admittedly, I have doubled my clonazepam from 1.5mg to 3mg over the last 2 weeks, but it seems that as blood levels of the Remeron get lower I feel better! Perhapse a small dose (7.5mg) would have suited me better.
But I still think I'd be overly anxious whatever the dose if I didn't have my clonazepam.
Of course blood levels of the drug will keep dropping by the day but I'm suprised my mood hasn't dropped yet (I've been off Remeron a whole week now).
Noradrenalin is a strange one though. For example, I find lofepramine, an NRI tricyclic (which is metabolized into desipramine) to be great for anticipatory anxiety ('butterflies', diarrhoea, etc) though at the same time it can aggrivate my general & social anxiety. I had a similar experience with reboxetine (another NRI). In fact, at one time my social phobia was so bad I was virtually agoraphobic, yet after 3 weeks on lofepramine I was able to not only leave the house but started college too! (though I still couldn't talk to anyone there 'socially').
Oddly, I've read from a few sources which report that Remeron may not be a dual action drug at all & may only effect noradrenalin, though I find this hard to beleive as it certainly 'felt' serotonergic to me. It felt very SSRI-like. Remeron definitely seems to worsen my anticipatory anxiety, which is exactly what the SSRIs do to me. Maybe it's serotonin effects are completely indirect(?).
Just my thoughts/experiences.
Posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2007, at 17:01:39
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » sdb, posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2007, at 15:17:25
Another thought I've just had as to why I'm feeling ok as I withdraw from Remeron is this: the clonazepam I take is turning what would otherwise be 'withdrawal anxiety' into a more enjoyable energy, if that makes sense. But who knows?!
Posted by kaleidoscope on October 21, 2007, at 7:30:59
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it!, posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2007, at 17:01:39
Hi T
A lot of diabetics (especially type 2) seem to end up getting prescribed drugs which cause sedation and weight gain eg. dothiepin, amitriptyline and mirtazapine. I think a lot of doctors don't think it through when prescribing.
Ed
Posted by tecknohed on October 21, 2007, at 14:59:37
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » tecknohed, posted by kaleidoscope on October 21, 2007, at 7:30:59
> Hi T
>
> A lot of diabetics (especially type 2) seem to end up getting prescribed drugs which cause sedation and weight gain eg. dothiepin, amitriptyline and mirtazapine. I think a lot of doctors don't think it through when prescribing.
>
> EdI agree with you totally. Thing is it was MY idea to try mirtazapine. I thought the higher dose would be more activating & overpower the sedation. But of course it didn't go as planned.
Also, oddly enough, instead of making me hungry it turned me right off food! I mean, I COULD eat but there was just no trigger for it. No appetite. Even when I did eat I was full very fast. But thats just plain old paridoxical me!
The worst complication was obviously my diabetes. For example, during a hypoglyceamic episode it was very hard to try & stuff down a Mars bar without an appetite! Normally a hypoglyceamic attack will trigger immense hunger & I'll keep eating untill I feel better.
The other big problem was the sedation masking hypoglyceamia. Normally if I have an attack during the night I immediately wake up. But the sedation of mirtazapine was so strong not even a fog horn in my ear would have woken me up! Also, tiredness is often a first symptom of low blood sugar, yet the mirt made me feel tired until well after noon, so you can see the problem there!Still, a lesson learned I guess. One good thing to come from it is that I found a med which increases my sexual pleasure, even to the point of premature ejaculation! And as I CAN tolerate low doses of mirt this is something to remember next time I'm pestered with any sexual side effects.
teck
P.S. Nice to 'read' from you by the way - its been a while. Take care mate!
Posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 0:41:51
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » sdb, posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2007, at 15:17:25
> > I don't think Remeron is a good med to treat anxiety primarily this because it increases noradrenaline at higher dosages. It is indeed very sedating especially in the first days, regardless of the dosage (!) and the sex-drive can be big for many persons. I know that a depressed post heart stroke patient did well on it for some weeks. Personally I took extremely low dosages and I used it as a sleep med during an emotional shock period.
> >
> > warm regards
> >
> > sdb
>
> Thanx for your input sdb!it is a pleasure, hi tecknohed!
>
> You know, since stopping Remeron the most bizzare thing has happened. I've actually been feeling better!Nice!
Admittedly, I have doubled my clonazepam from 1.5mg to 3mg over the last 2 weeks, but it seems that as blood levels of the Remeron get lower I feel better! Perhapse a small dose (7.5mg) would have suited me better.
the sedating properties of remeron are there at the lowest dosages. noradrenaline turnover will be there at higher dosages used for depression.
> But I still think I'd be overly anxious whatever the dose if I didn't have my clonazepam.
clonazepam is a well known anxiety med but for some persons it can cause a "blue feeling", depressed feeling.
> Of course blood levels of the drug will keep dropping by the day but I'm suprised my mood hasn't dropped yet (I've been off Remeron a whole week now).
Take care, and look for an alternative probably.
> Noradrenalin is a strange one though. For example, I find lofepramine, an NRI tricyclic (which is metabolized into desipramine) to be great for anticipatory anxiety ('butterflies', diarrhoea, etc) though at the same time it can aggrivate my general & social anxiety. I had a similar experience with reboxetine (another NRI). In fact, at one time my social phobia was so bad I was virtually agoraphobic, yet after 3 weeks on lofepramine I was able to not only leave the house but started college too! (though I still couldn't talk to anyone there 'socially').
it is intersting what you're telling. Can't say much here. Cool you started college.
> Oddly, I've read from a few sources which report that Remeron may not be a dual action drug at all & may only effect noradrenalin, though I find this hard to beleive as it certainly 'felt' serotonergic to me. It felt very SSRI-like. Remeron definitely seems to worsen my anticipatory anxiety,
This is maybe due to noradrenaline. Under Remeron your heart will beat harder and faster before an anxiety provoking event.
which is exactly what the SSRIs do to me. Maybe it's serotonin effects are completely indirect(?).
>
> Just my thoughts/experiences.Thanks for telling us your experiences and thoughts,
warm regards
sdb
Posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 0:44:15
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » tecknohed, posted by kaleidoscope on October 21, 2007, at 7:30:59
> Hi T
>
> A lot of diabetics (especially type 2) seem to end up getting prescribed drugs which cause sedation and weight gain eg. dothiepin, amitriptyline and mirtazapine. I think a lot of doctors don't think it through when prescribing.
>
> EdHi K!
mirtazapine has a very negative influence on somebodies lipid metabolism.
warm regards
sdb
Posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 4:24:24
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! » kaleidoscope, posted by tecknohed on October 21, 2007, at 14:59:37
> > Hi T
> >
> > A lot of diabetics (especially type 2) seem to end up getting prescribed drugs which cause sedation and weight gain eg. dothiepin, amitriptyline and mirtazapine. I think a lot of doctors don't think it through when prescribing.
> >
> > Ed
>
> I agree with you totally. Thing is it was MY idea to try mirtazapine. I thought the higher dose would be more activating & overpower the sedation. But of course it didn't go as planned.
>
> Also, oddly enough, instead of making me hungry it turned me right off food! I mean, I COULD eat but there was just no trigger for it. No appetite. Even when I did eat I was full very fast. But thats just plain old paridoxical me!
>
> The worst complication was obviously my diabetes. For example, during a hypoglyceamic episode it was very hard to try & stuff down a Mars bar without an appetite! Normally a hypoglyceamic attack will trigger immense hunger & I'll keep eating untill I feel better.
> The other big problem was the sedation masking hypoglyceamia. Normally if I have an attack during the night I immediately wake up. But the sedation of mirtazapine was so strong not even a fog horn in my ear would have woken me up! Also, tiredness is often a first symptom of low blood sugar, yet the mirt made me feel tired until well after noon, so you can see the problem there!
>
> Still, a lesson learned I guess. One good thing to come from it is that I found a med which increases my sexual pleasure, even to the point of premature ejaculation! And as I CAN tolerate low doses of mirt this is something to remember next time I'm pestered with any sexual side effects.
>
> teck
>
> P.S. Nice to 'read' from you by the way - its been a while. Take care mate!you have diabetes type II (I....other)? My recommendation is to avoid mirtazapine if possible.
warm regards
sdb
Posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 5:49:20
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! }} tecknohed, posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 4:24:24
> > > Hi T
> > >
> > > A lot of diabetics (especially type 2) seem to end up getting prescribed drugs which cause sedation and weight gain eg. dothiepin, amitriptyline and mirtazapine. I think a lot of doctors don't think it through when prescribing.
> > >
> > > Ed
> >
> > I agree with you totally. Thing is it was MY idea to try mirtazapine. I thought the higher dose would be more activating & overpower the sedation. But of course it didn't go as planned.
> >
> > Also, oddly enough, instead of making me hungry it turned me right off food! I mean, I COULD eat but there was just no trigger for it. No appetite. Even when I did eat I was full very fast. But thats just plain old paridoxical me!
> >
> > The worst complication was obviously my diabetes. For example, during a hypoglyceamic episode it was very hard to try & stuff down a Mars bar without an appetite! Normally a hypoglyceamic attack will trigger immense hunger & I'll keep eating untill I feel better.
> > The other big problem was the sedation masking hypoglyceamia. Normally if I have an attack during the night I immediately wake up. But the sedation of mirtazapine was so strong not even a fog horn in my ear would have woken me up! Also, tiredness is often a first symptom of low blood sugar, yet the mirt made me feel tired until well after noon, so you can see the problem there!
> >
> > Still, a lesson learned I guess. One good thing to come from it is that I found a med which increases my sexual pleasure, even to the point of premature ejaculation! And as I CAN tolerate low doses of mirt this is something to remember next time I'm pestered with any sexual side effects.
> >
> > teck
> >
> > P.S. Nice to 'read' from you by the way - its been a while. Take care mate!
>
> you have diabetes type II (I....other)? My recommendation is to avoid mirtazapine if possible.
>
> warm regards
>
> sdbhmm, quite paradox but very interesting.
For example, during a hypoglyceamic episode it was very hard to try & stuff down a Mars bar without an appetite! Normally a hypoglyceamic attack will trigger immense hunger & I'll keep eating untill I feel better.
> The other big problem was the sedation masking hypoglyceamia.transient hypoglycemia and hyperinsulinaemia increase the appetite leads to adipositas and the
development of early arteriosclerosis (macroangiopathia/diabetes specific microangiopathia). Take care to control the diabetes cautiously and rightly :-)warm regards
sdb
Posted by tecknohed on October 22, 2007, at 6:41:53
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! }} tecknohed, posted by sdb on October 22, 2007, at 5:49:20
Thanx again sdb for all your input.
By the way, I have 'type 1' diabetes (insulin dependant). Had it since 1992 (I was 12 then). Its passed on through the genes - my father has the same condition, since he was 8.
Regards,
teck.
Posted by kaleidoscope on October 23, 2007, at 15:42:43
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! }} tecknohed » sdb, posted by tecknohed on October 22, 2007, at 6:41:53
Hi
But wouldn't you be too tired on mirtaz to want to have sex?
Posted by tecknohed on October 23, 2007, at 18:41:15
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! }} tecknohed » tecknohed, posted by kaleidoscope on October 23, 2007, at 15:42:43
> Hi
>
> But wouldn't you be too tired on mirtaz to want to have sex?
>
>The sedation wasn't 24/7. It would fade by mid afternoon. I took my doses at night, before bed. Plenty of time for sex!
Posted by sdb on October 29, 2007, at 14:38:55
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! }} tecknohed » sdb, posted by tecknohed on October 22, 2007, at 6:41:53
> Thanx again sdb for all your input.
>
> By the way, I have 'type 1' diabetes (insulin dependant). Had it since 1992 (I was 12 then). Its passed on through the genes - my father has the same condition, since he was 8.
>
> Regards,
> teck.no problem teck, since you're having type 1 diabetes take care not to have infections. mirtazapine can mess with the immune system, for some people more for other people less. Personally I am a little bit astonished your doctor gave this to you maybe without monitoring your blood picture (hemogram).
It could make sense to discuss an aspirin prophylaxis with your doctor sometimes.
warm regards
sdb
Posted by tecknohed on October 30, 2007, at 5:08:01
In reply to Re: Remeron - just trashed it! }} tecknohed, posted by sdb on October 29, 2007, at 14:38:55
> It could make sense to discuss an aspirin prophylaxis with your doctor sometimes.
>What is aspirin prophylaxis? All I know about aspirin (in relation to diabetes) is that is lowers blood sugar/enhances insulin, so I avoid it.
Mind you, my father (who also has diabetes) does take low dose aspirin daily to prevent heart defects. Is this what you mean?
Thanx.
Posted by sdb on November 1, 2007, at 17:42:55
In reply to aspirin prophylaxis? » sdb, posted by tecknohed on October 30, 2007, at 5:08:01
> > It could make sense to discuss an aspirin prophylaxis with your doctor sometimes.
> >
>
> What is aspirin prophylaxis? All I know about aspirin (in relation to diabetes) is that is lowers blood sugar/enhances insulin, so I avoid it.
>
> Mind you, my father (who also has diabetes) does take low dose aspirin daily to prevent heart defects. Is this what you mean?
>
> Thanx.the coma lethality was > 60% (1900) it is only 1 % nowadays. Lethality of diabetics caused by cardiovascular (heart 55% / renal failure > 40 %) events is almost 80 %.
if you have a second risk factor like hypertension
an aspirin cardio could make sense in addition to lower the blood pressure.warm regards
sdb
Posted by Phillipa on November 1, 2007, at 22:00:35
In reply to Re: aspirin prophylaxis? }} teck, posted by sdb on November 1, 2007, at 17:42:55
Tech they recommend a baby aspirin a day here for heart to avoid problems. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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