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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by johnj on October 13, 2007, at 9:11:19
In reply to HELP for sleep, posted by Maxime on October 12, 2007, at 16:15:50
Have you tried doxepin which is a TCA?
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 13:55:21
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » Maxime, posted by Netch on October 12, 2007, at 19:22:41
> For how long did you try lamictal?
> I figure you're taking trileptal instead.
>
> I think you should consider remeron or seroquel as well for sleep aid.
>
> SSRI may aggrevate your insomnia even more.
>
> /NetchI was on Lamictal for almost 4 months. Then I tried the trileptal and there were no side effects and it helps. Although my pdoc wants to reduce my dosage to see if it will help my depression. I'm game!
I have a lot of stress at work which doesn't help my insomnia. Plus my anorexia is to blame as well. Maybe I will save up my calories for night time and see it that helps. I restrict to 300-500 calories a day. My metabolism is screwed up and it's hard for me to lose weight.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 13:57:37
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » Maxime, posted by dreamweever on October 12, 2007, at 19:46:55
> Perhaps a stupid idea, but have you tried adding some magnesium and calcium at night? If you are restricting a lot, you could be deficient and both magnesium and calcium are calming and can help with insomnia.
>
>
>It's not a stupid idea at all. I do take 400 mg of magnesium, but not calcium. I will try some calcium as well. I am taking 6 grams of Trytophan because of my "diet". It doesn't help though.
How much calcium would I need to take?
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 14:02:31
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by your#1fan on October 12, 2007, at 22:11:41
Hi
I've tried Temazepam before and it worked for one night. It's worth another try. Seroquel makes me lactate (lovely).
A barbiturate? My pdoc would never prescribe them for me because of my suicidal tendencies. Although, as you suggested he might give me a week's supply (or 3 days). I am going to ask him on Monday.
I didn't sleep again last night ... that's now 5 nights. Today I am hallucinating.
Thanks for the suggestions. I think the barbiturate idea is a good one.
Maxime
> I have a suggestion. Temazepam with Seroquel.
>
> Maxime, im so sorry. Why hasnt your doctor prescribed you a barbiturate?
>
> Seconal? well there outdated, but in a crisis like this, cant he prescribe you it for a couple of days. Just like a 7 day supply?
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 14:19:42
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » Maxime, posted by johnj on October 13, 2007, at 9:11:19
> Have you tried doxepin which is a TCA?
I wish I could take it. I am not allowed anymore TCAs because I had a minor heart attack in the spring. They are too dangerous because of my anorexia and I take Cytomel for hypothyroidism.
Amitriptyline used to knock me out ... I loved it.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 14:24:50
In reply to HELP for sleep, posted by Maxime on October 12, 2007, at 16:15:50
No sleep for me last night. Now I am starting to hallucinate. How long can this go on for? My pdoc is out of town so I can't even call him to get a me prescription for something.
I cannot take this anymore.
Maxime
Posted by your#1fan on October 13, 2007, at 14:51:56
In reply to Now 5 nights, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 14:24:50
maxime at this point....
Tell your doctor you need something very strong to help you sleep.
Seconal, Nembutal? like a 3 or 4 day supply to at least get you back down to earth.
And maybe an antimanic medication with it.
Posted by Justherself54 on October 13, 2007, at 15:15:32
In reply to Now 5 nights, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 14:24:50
What about a call in to your GP..he/she would know your history and more apt to prescribe something effective..
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 15:18:35
In reply to Re: Now 5 nights, posted by Justherself54 on October 13, 2007, at 15:15:32
> What about a call in to your GP..he/she would know your history and more apt to prescribe something effective..
I tried, but her answering machine just says to call on Monday. There is no emergency phone number.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 15:22:44
In reply to Re: Now 5 nights, posted by your#1fan on October 13, 2007, at 14:51:56
> maxime at this point....
>
> Tell your doctor you need something very strong to help you sleep.
>
> Seconal, Nembutal? like a 3 or 4 day supply to at least get you back down to earth.
>
> And maybe an antimanic medication with it.I am calling him on Monday when he returns. Last night I took 200 mg of Thorazine ... nothing. Usually 50 mg relaxes me enough to sleep.
Posted by Justherself54 on October 13, 2007, at 15:52:12
In reply to Re: Now 5 nights » Justherself54, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 15:18:35
Maybe a trip to emerg..take someone with you to drive..hopefully they'll give you something strong to tide you over until you can see your GP
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 16:23:17
In reply to Re: Now 5 nights, posted by Justherself54 on October 13, 2007, at 15:52:12
> Maybe a trip to emerg..take someone with you to drive..hopefully they'll give you something strong to tide you over until you can see your GP
I was thinking of that, but I live in Canada where you can wait for more than 12 hours to see someone. And I feel stupid having to go to the ER because I can't sleep. There are so many people who need critical care.
Maxime
Posted by d0pamine on October 13, 2007, at 16:33:57
In reply to HELP for sleep, posted by Maxime on October 12, 2007, at 16:15:50
I was sleeping 3 to 4 hours / night (EMsomnia (my term for EMSAM derived insomnia))until I accidentally discovered that 600 to 800 mg/day of potassium citrate (has to be citrate) (taken in divided doses (morning and night)) enabled me to sleep for as many hours as I had time for, every night, night after night as long as I take it fairly consistently. I started it because some research indicated that it might be helpful for my hypertension, but even though it had no impact on that, it did completely cure my EMsomnia. Do some research or consult a physician prior trying this however as potassium has the potential to stop your heart leaving you sort of dead, particularly if your kidneys don't function normally. In a healthy person however about 3,000 mg is the RDA so 600 to 800 should be ok for most people.
Posted by Sigismund on October 13, 2007, at 18:14:07
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by d0pamine on October 13, 2007, at 16:33:57
>I was sleeping 3 to 4 hours / night (EMsomnia (my term for EMSAM derived insomnia))until I accidentally discovered that 600 to 800 mg/day of potassium citrate (has to be citrate) (taken in divided doses (morning and night)) enabled me to sleep for as many hours as I had time for, every night, night after night as long as I take it fairly consistently.
How did you find that out?
Or, what made you think that might be the case?
Posted by d0pamine on October 13, 2007, at 19:15:19
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » d0pamine, posted by Sigismund on October 13, 2007, at 18:14:07
I have high blood pressure and was attempting to lower it by taking potassium citrate, and two days after I started taking it, I didn't wake up until the alarm went off. Prior to it happening that day I'm not sure I remember the last time that I slept past 1AM. The first night I figured it was just a fluke, then it happened again the next night so I knew something was up. My lifestyle and diet are simple and consistent enough that it didn't take very long at all to realize that the only thing that had changed was the addition of the potassium citrate. So I stopped it and two nights later I was up at 1am again. Since that time I've stopped and started it numerous times and the pattern is 100% consistent. When I take it, I can sleep a full night, when I don't, I can't. My tendency toward insomnia with EMSAM is strong enough that there is no way this could be a placebo situation. Although not unique to me, this solution may not apply to everyone as one apparently needs to be potassium deficient to experience relief from supplementing with it. I should also note that after realizing what was going on, I googled (potassium insomnia) and in the 613,000 hits that resulted, found more information than I cared to read indicating that a potassium deficiency can indeed result in insomnia. As I said, the RDA is over 3,000 Mg. I suspect few people's diets contain that much.
Posted by cactus on October 13, 2007, at 19:53:16
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by d0pamine on October 13, 2007, at 19:15:19
see if you can get some mogadon, it's a good hypnotic (benzo)
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 20:54:22
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by cactus on October 13, 2007, at 19:53:16
> see if you can get some mogadon, it's a good hypnotic (benzo)
At least it is available in Canada. Maybe it would be better than restoril. How many mg did you take? It's available in 5 & 10 mg.
Maxime
Posted by your#1fan on October 13, 2007, at 20:55:58
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by cactus on October 13, 2007, at 19:53:16
maxime is your doctor will to prescibe a multiple benzo's?
well i know you cant take a barbiturate with a benzodiapine........well you can but extra sedating.
I think you need may 100-200mg of Secobarbital. But it dosent last very long. Nembutal at 200mg should last for 4 hours., used to be the standard dose, before the barbiturate conterversy. Phenobarbital would help because it lasts almost 10 hours but i dont know how stong its hynotic properties are.....
Ask your doctor about some kind of barbiturate.
Posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 20:57:36
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by d0pamine on October 13, 2007, at 16:33:57
Very tempting to try for the longterm. But since I have anorexia my electrolytes are all over the place. I probably shouldn't play with Potassium.
Maxime
> I was sleeping 3 to 4 hours / night (EMsomnia (my term for EMSAM derived insomnia))until I accidentally discovered that 600 to 800 mg/day of potassium citrate (has to be citrate) (taken in divided doses (morning and night)) enabled me to sleep for as many hours as I had time for, every night, night after night as long as I take it fairly consistently. I started it because some research indicated that it might be helpful for my hypertension, but even though it had no impact on that, it did completely cure my EMsomnia. Do some research or consult a physician prior trying this however as potassium has the potential to stop your heart leaving you sort of dead, particularly if your kidneys don't function normally. In a healthy person however about 3,000 mg is the RDA so 600 to 800 should be ok for most people.
Posted by Netch on October 14, 2007, at 9:06:32
In reply to HELP for sleep, posted by Maxime on October 12, 2007, at 16:15:50
Maxime, please get hospital care. In hospital they will help you with your insomnia.
Using benzodiazepines or barbiturates is not a longterm solution. You need to get your anorexia under control. I don't think you can do it on your own./Netch
Posted by Netch on October 14, 2007, at 9:17:21
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep, posted by d0pamine on October 13, 2007, at 16:33:57
> I was sleeping 3 to 4 hours / night (EMsomnia (my term for EMSAM derived insomnia))until I accidentally discovered that 600 to 800 mg/day of potassium citrate (has to be citrate) (taken in divided doses (morning and night)) enabled me to sleep for as many hours as I had time for, every night, night after night as long as I take it fairly consistently. I started it because some research indicated that it might be helpful for my hypertension, but even though it had no impact on that, it did completely cure my EMsomnia. Do some research or consult a physician prior trying this however as potassium has the potential to stop your heart leaving you sort of dead, particularly if your kidneys don't function normally. In a healthy person however about 3,000 mg is the RDA so 600 to 800 should be ok for most people.
d0pamine, very interesting.
I think I will try potassium citrate./Netch
Posted by your#1fan on October 14, 2007, at 23:11:48
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » d0pamine, posted by Netch on October 14, 2007, at 9:17:21
Was your doctor nice?
Please dont tell me he said try herbal stuff like Valerian Root. My doc told me that, first all that stuff smells valerian bomb, so if you do take it dont belch......... (it smells awful, i think i almost fainted when after i swallowed them) you might faint or go to your doctor and belch and make him faint for not treating you ROFL!
And please oh god, not ambien.....
Maxi tell your doctor that he is not treating you right if this time it doesnt work..
your#1fan
Posted by Maxime on October 15, 2007, at 19:18:57
In reply to Re: How did it go today?, posted by your#1fan on October 14, 2007, at 23:11:48
I didn't see my doctor, but I spoke with him. He called in a prescription for Tenazepam. I will try it tonight. I will only take it for a few days because I don't want to get addicted to it.
Tomorrow I start Zoloft which I know causes insomnia ( it did last time) ... I hope it's not too bad.
Thanks for asking!
Maxime
> Was your doctor nice?
>
> Please dont tell me he said try herbal stuff like Valerian Root. My doc told me that, first all that stuff smells valerian bomb, so if you do take it dont belch......... (it smells awful, i think i almost fainted when after i swallowed them) you might faint or go to your doctor and belch and make him faint for not treating you ROFL!
>
> And please oh god, not ambien.....
>
> Maxi tell your doctor that he is not treating you right if this time it doesnt work..
>
> your#1fan
Posted by cactus on October 17, 2007, at 5:08:45
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » cactus, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2007, at 20:54:22
> > see if you can get some mogadon, it's a good hypnotic (benzo)
>
> At least it is available in Canada. Maybe it would be better than restoril. How many mg did you take? It's available in 5 & 10 mg.
>
> MaximeSorry for the late reply, try 5mg at first and if that doesn't work then try 10mg. It leaves restoril for dead, I find restoril TOTALLY useless, it makes me manic and I chew peoples ears off until they bleed. Try and get some mogadon. In some countries it's only used for epilepsy like clonezapam is here in australia but I have a great pdoc who prescribes it for me for panic and mogadon for sleep. Good luck, I hope you can get some it's fantastic
Posted by Maxime on October 17, 2007, at 18:53:14
In reply to Re: HELP for sleep » Maxime, posted by cactus on October 17, 2007, at 5:08:45
I used 30 mg of Restoril and got 4 hours sleep. I was expecting more. :(
I don't want to ask my pdoc for more meds to try ... but I will see.
Thanks.
Maxime
> > > see if you can get some mogadon, it's a good hypnotic (benzo)
> >
> > At least it is available in Canada. Maybe it would be better than restoril. How many mg did you take? It's available in 5 & 10 mg.
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Sorry for the late reply, try 5mg at first and if that doesn't work then try 10mg. It leaves restoril for dead, I find restoril TOTALLY useless, it makes me manic and I chew peoples ears off until they bleed. Try and get some mogadon. In some countries it's only used for epilepsy like clonezapam is here in australia but I have a great pdoc who prescribes it for me for panic and mogadon for sleep. Good luck, I hope you can get some it's fantastic
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