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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 17, 2006, at 15:27:34
In reply to Re: To Greif...thanks!!!!!!!!, posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 14:56:35
> You are welcome Buckeye (Iowa?). There is a link on site to her manual. Many Pdocs dont understand Xanax withrewl and try and reduce weekly. I weaned off Zanax with K and off Ativan with valium. My doctor was unaware of this method and was hesitant to prescibe valium. Keep us posted.
Will do.
And its The Ohio State University....:DI think I remember my MD saying one time that to try and get off xananx with valium would be "trading one addiction for another"...so I bet that's his mindset...Ill see.
And your right about another thing too...the MD who originally prescribed xanax tried to ween me off 4 years ago on a weekly basis. It was killingme and he wouldnt budge, and stopped returning my phone calls and refused to write me another prescription.
Not that I go from "doctor to doctor"...I have only had him and my current MD.
BF
Posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 23:09:40
In reply to Re: To Greif...thanks!!!!!!!!, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 17, 2006, at 15:27:34
I am a Gopher grad....how soon I forget the mascots that were once so important to me. I brought in the Ashton manual to get off Ativan. The doctor acted annoyed and did not want to read it but agreed to allow me the choice. Ativan and Zanax weekly reduction is torture. My ears would ring and sounds would resonate through my body and mind. i could not sleep or think straight. Just when I began to feel somewhat adjusted it was time for another taper. I would end up drinking a bottle of wine every night to get to sleep. This was when I was tapering off 3-5mg of z daily for 4 years. he swithced me to K and withdrawl was not as bad but I needed the alchohol to sleep. In hindsite it was unbearable and I was at the peak of my career. I disagree with Ashton that all benzos are bad. After years of abstinace from them and alchohol, I was unable to control GAD. I tried every mood stabalizer out there with poor results. Then the Atypicals which were the worst. So I now take daily 2mg of clonzapam and feel almost no anxiety. I have never felt the need to add to it. One useful item of info I learned here is the variation of the generics. Most Pharmacys carry Purepak as the generic. It is the cheapest for health insurance to pay for. At the advise of many on this board I switched to Tiva. Its like a different med. Lasts longer and has better effect. Pdoc needs to request it. It has a different compound than Purepak and I agree with former posters, it is far superior. I now lead a normal life and can concentrate and function fime. I am grateful for K and the benefits it provides. There is a support group connected to Ashton site that are anti benzo zeolots. I would suggest not wasting time with that group. They claim that short term benzo use destroyed their lifes. I suspect is was not the benzos. I do agree that Zanax should not be prescibed to those suffering mild anxiety. There are natural ways to deal with life. Those with chronic debilitating anxiety and phobias are different.
Best wishes to you
Posted by corafree on May 19, 2006, at 10:17:25
In reply to Re: Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by Greif on May 17, 2006, at 7:24:39
>K removes all my anxiety but does not provide the elevation that Zanax does.<
K never removed all anxiety for me, but the latter rings true.
Still on Valium 10mg 3x a day since NB same time last year. Can't/wouldn't risk even titrating down a bit. NB was as near death as I want to get.
So that 'stimulation' .. 'elevation' ... give me some of that (w/o sounding like a tweaker) because I'm socially stagnant. And I mean I don't 'even care'.
Too bad Xanax cannot be 'refined'.
Norpramin (old TCAD) working well for me. Also magnesium supplement ... working well. But still that one thing is missing. And, I don't care if that thing is replaced by a 'fake/phony stimulant' ... I need to move my a** and get off the couch!
I have 'no desire', 'no drive'; not talking sexually, but 'livingly'(notaword).
I won't just take away the Valium to throw myself into motivation caused by anxiety. It would motivate me right through the hospital doors!
How do I ask my P for a stimulant? Should I 'add a dash' of Xanax? Maybe Provigil?
Trying to get to the benzo UK site. Computer hot. Will check back.
Looked over the EMSAM threads and I don't want to run out and ask for that.
One things for sure ... it's spring ... works 'against' depression. (Everything is new but me! Yikes!) It's like Christmas that lasts three months!!!
I'm just touching base here as I prepare to see my P today.
bestwishes,cf
Posted by Squiggles on May 19, 2006, at 18:19:30
In reply to Opinions please....What Mkes Xanax So UNIQUE?, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on May 16, 2006, at 7:07:17
I did not find withdrawing from Xanax
that difficult (3 months for 2.0mg) after
quite a few years. It does tend to deplete
in strength if you take it a long time.
But, as a benzo for acute panic - i think
it is one of the best. That may be because
it has a short half life - 2 hrs.Klonopin is an amazing drug. I have spoken
to friends who have taken it too, and you just
don't feel it when you take it and you don't
build tolerance as fast as you do on Xanax
if taken daily. However, it is one of the hardest benzos to withdraw from because it is specially manufactured for epilepsy. It is a strong anti-convulsant.So Xanax is the best for the occasional panic attack or difficult psychological situation of anxiety, but Klonopin is good for general anxiety, muscle pains, fits, and it is given to bipolars.
Squiggles
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 28, 2007, at 9:25:14
In reply to Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by blueberry on May 10, 2006, at 20:19:32
> The few times I have felt very well were with various combinations of meds, but it was always xanax that brought it all together. Xanax was the missing ingredient. It really woke up prozac and zyprexa and made me feel completely normal. Even though I always thought it would be a dopamine med that would resolve my apathetic anhedonic lack of joy lack of motivation symptoms, it was xanax that did it. It did the same when added to 5htp with zyprexa.
>
> But I only took it for a week. I asked myself if I was just experiencing a xanax high. My answer was no. I just felt normal. I was afraid of addiction and tolerance and poopout, so I never continued. Now I'm thinking about it.
>
> Has anyone used xanax for a long time? I mean, like for years? Any benzo users out there, do you think someone could take xanax and stay in the 1mg to 3mg range for years?Do you still take Xanax with Prozac and if so, what dose of Prozac do you take?
Thanks, Karen
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 28, 2007, at 9:27:30
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » blueberry, posted by FredPotter on May 11, 2006, at 0:10:06
> I've taken benzos on and off for 42 years. Xanax for about 12 years. My X use goes up and down with my mental health. There's no inexorable rise in use (in my case). You use the word "high". I don't get a high from X, never have. I think we should be careful using words like that as it encourages the anti-benzo brigade
Hi Fred: Do you still take Xanax and do you take it with any other meds or just by itself? My pdoc wants me to go on Xanax as no antidepressants seem to work for me.
Thanks, Karen
Posted by clearskies on August 28, 2007, at 9:45:23
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by KarenRB53 on August 28, 2007, at 9:27:30
Hi Karen, I've been on a very low dose of Xanax (between .5mg and 2mg a day during crisis) for over 5 years now. I did wean off - and the anxiety was right there, waiting for me, when I did - but the low dose, taken in .25mg increments, keeps the heebie jeebies at bay for me. It works quickly. Presently, I take Remeron 30mg and since I've taken that the anxiety level in general has decreased a huge amount, so for me the adjunct antidepressant makes a big difference as to how much Xanax will be effective for my anxiety. Previously, I'd been on Cymbalta, and before that Effexor and Wellbutrin.
For me, anxiety worsens as the day progresses, developing to a crescendo about 3pm. It helps a lot to have a daily meditation practice to get my breathing under control, but knowing that I've got the Xanax to take when my body needs it is what really saves the day for me.
I'm not saying that if I didn't have it that I'd crack, but I know that I would not be able to function at as high a level as I do without it. My pdoc has *no* problem with me taking this low dosage for a sustained period as I haven't developed a tolerance for it.
ClearSkies
Posted by jhj on August 29, 2007, at 0:09:17
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by KarenRB53 on August 28, 2007, at 9:25:14
Hi Karen
I have been taking benzo for almost three years.I was on xanax(alprazolam) for four months too.Then,i was on other benzo,diazepam,clonazepam,chlordiazepoxide and currently i am on clobazm.I have never felt addicted to it though.It is different thing that no benzo has reduced my social anxiety or GAD by even small percent.They have been totally ineffective.I took fluoxetine 20 mg with alprazolam for four months. Currenty i am taking sertraline(zoloft)50 mg with clobazam 20 mg.Thanks.
Posted by RobertDavid on August 29, 2007, at 1:36:16
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by jhj on August 29, 2007, at 0:09:17
I have taken klonopin (currently 1.5 mgs) for SAD & GAD for 13 years. It's the only med that has worked. It continues to work well particularly for SAD. I took as high as 3mgs, but have settled in at 1.5mgs and am functioning very well. Prior to klonopin I was hardly able to leave the house. When I first started taking klonopin I was discuraged until I got up over 1mg as the smaller dose didn't help. I suspect some fail on benzo's because they never take a dose that is high enough for them. Just my take. Best of luck......
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 29, 2007, at 9:06:44
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by jhj on August 29, 2007, at 0:09:17
I just can't seem to get past the bumping into doors phase or maybe I haven't been taking it long enough. I started at .25mg then up to 0.5 and then up to 1mg which puts me right out within 20 mins. I took 0.5 last night before bed and this morning I'm so hung over and feel like my head is full of cotton and very unsteady on my feet. How long does this last and maybe its just not for me. I took Ativan along with AD for about 5 yrs. Just 1/2mg in a.m. and 1 mg p.m and it never affected me this way. Maybe its because I'm not on any AD with the Xanax. I don't know what to do.
Karen
Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2007, at 20:26:49
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by RobertDavid on August 29, 2007, at 1:36:16
Robert hi nice to see you and hear you are well Phillipa your friend forever
Posted by Fivefires on August 29, 2007, at 22:44:04
In reply to Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by blueberry on May 10, 2006, at 20:19:32
> The few times I have felt very well were with various combinations of meds, but it was always xanax that brought it all together. Xanax was the missing ingredient. It really woke up prozac and zyprexa and made me feel completely normal..
Prozac increased my anxiety and that's actually when I began Xanax.
>Even though I always thought it would be a dopamine med that would resolve my apathetic anhedonic lack of joy lack of motivation symptoms, it was xanax that did it. It did the same when added to 5htp with zyprexa.>
Xanax, as opposed to Valium, for example, is more activating. Valium is more sedating. The prior, for me, anyway.
> But I only took it for a week. I asked myself if I was just experiencing a xanax high. My answer was no. I just felt normal. I was afraid of addiction and tolerance and poopout, so I never continued. Now I'm thinking about it.>If you could just put something down like this why think of picking it up again?
> Has anyone used xanax for a long time?
Yep, me.
>I mean, like for years?
Yep.
Any benzo users out there, do you think someone could take xanax and stay in the 1mg to 3mg range for years?
It's possible for some people I'd think.
I was on 1/4mg then went to 1/2mg then went to 1mg, probably over 10yrs.
Seems though, after reaching 1mg, increasing began at a more rapid rate.
Although, some real bad life experiences came into play around the same time period, so I'm sure this prob' speaks to my needs increasing.
Maybe 'becoming dependent' depends upon your 'personality type'.
Benzodiazepines are not on the formulary for Medicare Part D. Those poor people. I worry peeps will experience disasters in their lives and have no means for relief :( ...
I've never understood people who say 'yeah it hurts really bad but I'm just going to tough it out'.
Guess you can figure out my personality type.
5f
Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2007, at 23:28:04
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by Fivefires on August 29, 2007, at 22:44:04
FF like millions of others. Need them to function at best capacity. No need to keep increasing as your anxiety goes done so does your dose naturally. You just don't need as much. Phillipa
Posted by Fivefires on August 29, 2007, at 23:42:48
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » Fivefires, posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2007, at 23:28:04
Good point. Only one AD, Effexor-XR, lessened anxiety, and at this time I was able to 'decrease' benzo. Think this is what you mean Phillipa. Also, ups and downs of life also made a diff' in my need. (Long time since a real good up!)
5f
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 30, 2007, at 8:02:23
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by Fivefires on August 29, 2007, at 23:42:48
> Good point. Only one AD, Effexor-XR, lessened anxiety, and at this time I was able to 'decrease' benzo. Think this is what you mean Phillipa. Also, ups and downs of life also made a diff' in my need. (Long time since a real good up!)
>
> 5fDid the EffexorXR work for your depression as well as the anxiety? Are you still taking the EffexorXR?
Karen
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 30, 2007, at 8:05:52
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by Fivefires on August 29, 2007, at 23:42:48
I just can't take Xanax. I went to my pdoc yesterday after falling down the stairs (I'm ok just a few steps) but I definitely cannot handle the Xanxax. Ativan does not do this to me so he wants me back on Ativan. So, again I'm searching for the right AD because pdoc was hoping Xanax would work for depression also.
Karen
Posted by Fivefires on August 30, 2007, at 11:33:31
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » Fivefires, posted by KarenRB53 on August 30, 2007, at 8:02:23
> > Good point. Only one AD, Effexor-XR, lessened anxiety, and at this time I was able to 'decrease' benzo. Think this is what you mean Phillipa. Also, ups and downs of life also made a diff' in my need. (Long time since a real good up!)
> >
> > 5f
>
> Did the EffexorXR work for your depression as well as the anxiety?>For me depression always seemed to follow anxiety in my life, so yes.
>Are you still taking the EffexorXR?
No, I'm giving some thought to beginning it again though. Next appt w/ pdoc 2wks. He'll do but not like as he mentioned it was hard for me 'coming off of it'. I don't recall it as being any harder than 'geting off' any other ADs though, so I'd probably share this w/ him. My anxiety seems pretty tamed right now, so I'm observing myself at this time, and just considering it. Cymbalta aggravated my sensitive neuro system. (This was soooo paradoxical!) Should post about this. Now that's two things I'm thinking I should post about this morning. Better get a sticky note out right nooowwwww. Oops sorry ... babbled on. U didn't ask 4this. Gotta' get to that cup of coffee back there behind me!
> Karen5f
Posted by KarenRB53 on August 30, 2007, at 15:37:43
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » KarenRB53, posted by Fivefires on August 30, 2007, at 11:33:31
> > > Good point. Only one AD, Effexor-XR, lessened anxiety, and at this time I was able to 'decrease' benzo. Think this is what you mean Phillipa. Also, ups and downs of life also made a diff' in my need. (Long time since a real good up!)
> > >
> > > 5f
> >
> > Did the EffexorXR work for your depression as well as the anxiety?>
>
> For me depression always seemed to follow anxiety in my life, so yes.
>
> >Are you still taking the EffexorXR?
>
> No, I'm giving some thought to beginning it again though. Next appt w/ pdoc 2wks. He'll do but not like as he mentioned it was hard for me 'coming off of it'. I don't recall it as being any harder than 'geting off' any other ADs though, so I'd probably share this w/ him. My anxiety seems pretty tamed right now, so I'm observing myself at this time, and just considering it. Cymbalta aggravated my sensitive neuro system. (This was soooo paradoxical!) Should post about this. Now that's two things I'm thinking I should post about this morning. Better get a sticky note out right nooowwwww. Oops sorry ... babbled on. U didn't ask 4this. Gotta' get to that cup of coffee back there behind me!
>
> > Karen
>
> 5f
>My pdoc said the same thing about me. That I have paradoxical reactions to many meds.
Karen
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2007, at 19:29:30
In reply to Re: Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time? » Fivefires, posted by KarenRB53 on August 30, 2007, at 15:37:43
Karen story of my life no the ad's do nothing for my anxiety at all. Never have always made it worse and no problem dcing any of them. Phillipa
Posted by AnneL on September 1, 2007, at 21:15:42
In reply to Anyone take xanax or benzos for a long time?, posted by blueberry on May 10, 2006, at 20:19:32
I have been on 1 mg. of clonazepam at bedtime for 7 years without any development of tolerance. I have dependence issues - if I go longer than 24 hours, I will have symptoms of benzo withdrawal which, BTW, are not pleasant. :) AnneL
Posted by sdb on September 4, 2007, at 17:30:18
In reply to Year 7 on Clonazepam, posted by AnneL on September 1, 2007, at 21:15:42
What's the average dosage used of diazepam in psychiatry (valium) eg. your dosage?
Who's the record leader on continous diazepam (Valium) with no tolerance in p-babble :-) ????
other blabla: after reading many posts and some observations, clonazepam can be depressogenic by itself (sometimes described like a blue feeling) but diazepam only sedating (which could be depressogenic
indirectly)sdb
Posted by Squiggles on September 4, 2007, at 17:50:14
In reply to Re: average dosage of diazepam (Valium)?, posted by sdb on September 4, 2007, at 17:30:18
I found them both depressing, like alcohol;
the clonazepam only on initiation, and the
valium most of the time taken (if i remember
my mood then correctly). Not so, with Xanax;
Xanax is the best, but and easier to withdraw
from once addicted. I don't know about the others.Interesting, how benzos differ.
Squiggles
Posted by KarenRB53 on September 4, 2007, at 19:20:23
In reply to Re: average dosage of diazepam (Valium)? » sdb, posted by Squiggles on September 4, 2007, at 17:50:14
The clonazepam made me more depressed and the Xanax made me feel like a zombie but Ativan just takes the edge off however it does make me tired. I've never tried the Valium.
Karen
Posted by Paulbwell on September 5, 2007, at 2:09:16
In reply to Re: average dosage of diazepam (Valium)? » sdb, posted by Squiggles on September 4, 2007, at 17:50:14
> I found them both depressing, like alcohol;
> the clonazepam only on initiation, and the
> valium most of the time taken (if i remember
> my mood then correctly). Not so, with Xanax;
> Xanax is the best, but and easier to withdraw
> from once addicted. I don't know about the others.
>
> Interesting, how benzos differ.-Yes indeededdd:)> I found them both depressing, like alcohol;
OH NO! Alcohol takes the cake for all around SEs. Clonazapam was depressogenic-but at up to 6mgs (Doc scripted 2mg PRN, tab T.I.D, then reading his PDR, .5mg tabs, PRN T.I.D, i corrected him on this,) would be? also causes a tendancy to dribble, not a good look.
Diazepam-ARRR, good ole' Valium. Your only addicted if you take more than your Doc---Milton Berle. The best benzo i'v been treated with (for something called, GAD)-unresponsive to AD's.
> the clonazepam only on initiation, and the
> valium most of the time taken (if i remember
> my mood then correctly). Not so, with Xanax;
> Xanax is the best, but and easier to withdraw
> from once addicted.Thank God!!!. My MFing PcDoc cold turkeyed me from >3mgs daily-because he'felt like it'-MFing XXX, should sure his *ss to high court.
I don't know about the others.
>
> Interesting, how benzos differ.
>
> Squiggles
>
> Squiggles
Posted by Fivefires on September 5, 2007, at 13:47:21
In reply to Re: average dosage of diazepam (Valium)? » Squiggles, posted by Paulbwell on September 5, 2007, at 2:09:16
There's a few things I'd like to say here.
If you're 'addicted'(?) to Xanax, perhaps 2mg 3x a day, it is NOT easy to withdraw in my experience. Maybe if you're on .5mg 3x a day, you can titrate off on your own.
I went inpatient at one time in my life 'to get off everything' and the pdoc I had was excellent. He put me in the detox unit and I was told there my withdrawal from Xanax would be similar to a withdrawal from heroin and managed the same way.
I did leave off of it. Unfortunately, one of the persons I met there and 'trusted'(?) visited me later, and stole my identity and my car. It wasn't long b4 real life drug my heart way back down to that horrible anxiousness again. Think maybe I was put on Klonopin at that time. I was on an SNRI which did help somewhat w/ anxiety, so was able to stay away from Xanax, ... for a while, that is.
Klonopin, after knowing what Xanax felt like, 'felt like nothing'. But, the thing w/ Klonopin is, ... 'it's sneaky'. Dejavu - I know I've said this before. Klonopin is doing more than you realize.
A new pdoc (The cou*ty was changing them all the time.) cold-turkeyed me off it and I didn't object because 'it didn't feel like anything strong enough to cause me trouble', but ....... I'm positive it led to the most horrifying experience of my 'health' life, 3wks later, ... CNS breakdown. I've been left w/ a few reminders which will never go away. Apparently this pdoc resigned shortly afterwards. Coincidence? No $ to follow up.
My daughter got me to a hospital asap. I was given Valium for loss of ability to function, as if I'd aged 50freakin'yrs! The drug saved my life. Like I said tho', it left a little damage. I've prob' been left w/ 90% of my former physical and mental self. And, I'm probably more susceptible to repetitions of this horrific event.
After about a year on Valium and feeling home free, I realized I was too fatigued, and switched to Xanax which has been less fatiguing.
But anyone young out there and reading this, and having your first experience w/ anxiety, the prior is after a culmination of many extremely stressful life events.
I have one daughter who is doing fine on lorazepam (Ativan) .5 mg prn, probably because she has been 'my support person' awa lives a life w/ a lot of responsibilities. Other children on nothing.
I wouldn't want anyone to start on a benzodiazepine like Xanax or Valium if they are young and having their first experience w/ anxiety. I think Ativan is prob' good for this.
My experience w/ Klonopin is it's a med for a person w/ chronic generalized anxiety disorder, and not a good choice for one w/ first downs such as a divorce or death. This would depend on the person and the event of course. I just wanted to state if possible begin w/ Ativan.
If a condition becomes chronic, I might think Klonopin then. I don't know if many pdocs will write this anymore, but used to write Klonopin beneath another benzo like a support benzo.
I'm saying the latter because I was never given a less addicting benzo like Ativan. I was first given Librium in my early 20s and quit it after a life issue resolved. But, then in my early 30s anxiety presented again in relation to nothing in particular and was even exacerbated alongside Prozac, so was given Xanax.
I just think sometimes I should have been started on Ativan instead.
I know it's hard not to jump for complete relief, but, in reality, is there even such a thing? I've not found it. I hope we can be basically satisfied and that's enough. It's too bad I didn't hear someone say 'You don't have to be perfect', if they were saying it back then.(?)
Reality is we're not perfect and 'to want to be perfect and expect perfection' can create anxiety, so try stay on less strong benzo or a low dose and don't kick yourself in the a*s for not being perfect. I learned this the hard way.
Sorry .. didn't mean 2 write a book.
5f
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