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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 15:54:04
Why are there so few threads on these? Is it because the sufferers generally don't know they're ill? I had a dear friend who became psychotic recently. She came to see me saying that her husband was trying to poison her. It was just like reading a text book. In my opinion she needed to be looked after in a hospital, but some daft person got her a flat by herself "so she could get her life back together". This is the infamous community bloody care we hear about. After that time I could never understand what she was saying, only that she was very worried. I'd have liked to have known what was going on inside her head. Now she's dead, from an overdose. So I'll never know what she was so worried about.
Fred
Posted by Racer on August 12, 2007, at 16:28:07
In reply to schizophrenia, psychosis etc, posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 15:54:04
> Why are there so few threads on these? Is it because the sufferers generally don't know they're ill?
Actually, there are more threads on them than I think people realize sometimes. I think people here often judge others by our own conditions -- since I consider myself fairly grounded in reality, no matter how depressed I may be, I tend to take what other people tell me as being equally grounded in reality. Many of us here are capable of distinguishing objective reality, of course, but there are a number of people here who do suffer from psychotic illnesses, and even more who have psychotic features as icing on mood disorders. It's just that the questions posted aren't necessarily posed as "I'm psychotic and..."
I'm very sorry about your friend. I, too, experienced a friend having a psychotic break. It was very frightening, and more than a little heartbreaking.
Peace.
Posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 19:44:52
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc » FredPotter, posted by Racer on August 12, 2007, at 16:28:07
>I think people here often judge others by our own conditions
Racer thanks you're absolutely right now I think about it, and I know who you mean I think
Posted by Racer on August 12, 2007, at 20:53:32
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc » Racer, posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 19:44:52
> >I think people here often judge others by our own conditions
>
> Racer thanks you're absolutely right now I think about it, and I know who you mean I thinkActually, I didn't have any one person in mind when I wrote that. Over the past ten years here at Babble, there have been a number of people who met that description...
Posted by linkadge on August 12, 2007, at 20:59:07
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc » FredPotter, posted by Racer on August 12, 2007, at 20:53:32
I have had some "mood congruent" delusions that generally clear up when my mood lifts.
I don't know if I would consider it a psychotic issue.
Antipsychotics aren't really drugs that people discuss in conversation whereas discussing antidepressants seems to be somewhat fassionable.
Its such a misunderstood illness, and symptoms vary so much from person to person.
I guess there is a strong tendancy for indivudiduals to feel alienated.
Linkadge
Posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 21:35:06
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc » FredPotter, posted by Racer on August 12, 2007, at 20:53:32
I wasn't singling out one person at all.
Posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 23:48:11
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc » Racer, posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 21:35:06
neither did I want to start a witch hunt. I'm sure we all agree that sufferers from psychosis are more than welcome here
Posted by cloudydaze on August 16, 2007, at 19:19:17
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc, posted by FredPotter on August 12, 2007, at 23:48:11
I have Bipolar, but experienced a psychotic episode (voices, delusions, hallucinations) once when I got really low. It lasted for 6 months, and in that period of time I tried about 5 or 6 anti-psychotics, all with awful side effects.
That episode was several years ago, and I haven't had a full blown break with reality since, but I do get rather paranoid and a bit delusional from time to time.
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2007, at 21:23:11
In reply to Re: schizophrenia, psychosis etc, posted by cloudydaze on August 16, 2007, at 19:19:17
Not to change topic but I had a question.
I have never "heard voices" in that I have never heard what I would call an audible voice that was not from the environmnent.
I often have times when it seems I can hear my thoughts. My thoughts become very loud, acusing me of things, reminding me of what I am not, etc etc. Anyhow, I begin to talk to myself like I am talking to these thoughts like I am talking to a separate person.
I tell the thoughts to "shut up" out loud.
Sometimes I say things like "I know that already, why are you telling me this again" out loud and people wonder who I am talking to.
Other things, like "why won't you leave me alone", "shut the f*ck up", "get away from me"
out loud in responce to these thoughts.I have never thought of it as being "voices", because I don't hear them audibly.
My question is whether anybody who has actually "heard" voices, knows what I mean and weather one is realted to the other, Ie can one progess into acutally hearing voices?
It makes me look like a freak but that pretty much all.
My brother claims to have actually heard voices when he was very depressed.
Sorry for the vagueness, but any info would be appreciated.
Linkadge
Posted by FredPotter on August 19, 2007, at 15:48:22
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2007, at 21:23:11
There is a community on the web who hear voices but are not schizophrenic. I think as in your case they know they're not really coming from outside. So usually lack of insight is the key I think. I feel on the verge of hearing voices sometimes, like whispers, just out of earshot. And words and phrases pop unbidden into my mind, as if they're said. But they're quite obviously produced by me. I sometimes think it's subsyndromal temporal lobe epilepsy, but I suspect it's quite common
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 20:26:31
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by FredPotter on August 19, 2007, at 15:48:22
I have noticed that I keep to myself, ie don't go out, so that I can react to the thoughts however I please, especially when they become very loud.
I have visual "distortions". Ie no hallucinations, but things start to change form. Like lamps will look like people and take on peronality and emotion, or non symbolic objects taking on symbolic form. I often see "faces" in things like cars, VCR, patterns on walls, etc.
The doctor throws a lot of stuff at me, mainly AP's and anticonvulsants.
The atypicals have helped the visual distortions, but are more hastle than they're worth.
Because I am not "off the walls" psychotic, I feel its more hastle than its worth. The meds just end up making life more hard to tollerate.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 23:49:55
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2007, at 21:23:11
I sometimes hear voices, usually someone calling out my name. It just comes straight out of the blue but often happens after a few days with little sleep, or at times of high stress. I don't think it's psychosis and apparently this is a common phenomenon. I have also hallucinated on very rare occasions. I have a very vivid visual imagination and most of my inner thoughts are expressed this way. At times they become so vivid and intrusive that I can't avoid them, and they merge and overlap slightly with the outside world. But again, I think this is an intense anxiety state rather than psychosis.
Intrusive thoughts are very common in anxious people, especially that critical 'inner voice' that keeps up a constant narrative of failures and weaknesses etc. I sometimes shout out to try and quieten it, not so much talking to it, more like random nonsense words. Lately the phrase has been "Mammy don't hurt me, don't please don't hurt me!", but a few months ago it was simply "Hello!" chanted over and over again until the feeling subsided. Obviously I'm aware the former may be linked to some sort of early trauma. I don't do this in public, but often I will screw my face up, chew my lips and shake my head violently. Passers-by have been alarmed by this.
I've also been known to burst into laughter for no (outward) apparent reason, but it's usually because my train of thought has turned to something funny. At times 'it' will do this at the most inopportune of moments, almost as if to torment me. Doctor's waiting rooms are a favourite place for this. I think it has something to do with the oppressive silence and seriousness of these places, so my thoughts will turn to inappropriate things.
A friend I went to school with did similar things to this. Often we would become swept up in each other's moods, like if I had one of my unprovoked laughter outbursts she would start to laugh too and soon we would be in hysterics, to the point of crying and tears running down our faces. It could be quite contagious and a whole room can quickly be engulfed this way, everyone laughing for no apparent reason, and the irony of laughing for no apparent reason somehow fuels further laughter, so it spreads out of control and maintains itself like a raging inferno. I've read of other documented occurrences of this phenomenon, some continuing for days and resulting in fatalities. People have actually died laughing for no apparent reason.
I think it's similar to St. Vitus dance, although I've read that phenomenon may have been due at least in part to the LSD-like ergot alkaloids in poisoned rye bread, which was common in medieval times. I guess there's also some similarity to glossolalia and religious ecstasy too, and I have entered such states on rare occasions. I also had childhood epilepsy, so I find the temporal lobe link interesting. Most of my seizures were of the absence variety as far as I know, I don't have any information on that. Anyway, the point I was getting to was that the friend in question later developed Schizophrenia. I've talked about some of her experiences here before. So, yeah, at times I've wondered if I'm on a similar wavelength to schizophrenics, but I'm quite certain I don't have a psychotic disorder, though if you were to watch me on some kind of Big Brother 24hr surveillance system you might have doubts about that.
Of interest to me is the original diagnostic label, Pseudo-neurotic Schizophrenia, for what is now called Borderline Personality Disorder. It's like a web really isn't it? All things interlinked. Or a jigsaw? We 'just' need to fit all the pieces together. I think the main stumbling block here is that what we are discussing is mostly esoteric knowledge, beknownst only to experts, and experts tend to be specialists, focussed on one particular approach to a specific subject. They may be entirely ignorant of pertinent work done by other experts in fields very different to their own e.g. the neurologist may be unaware of research done by a social scientist looking at a different angle of the same phenomenon. I feel it's up to us, the lay people, to join the dots. Lets raise a glass to the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanganyika_Laughter_Epidemic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlossolaliaQ
Posted by Kathii on August 20, 2007, at 1:23:29
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2007, at 21:23:11
I have heard voices outside my head, but it's very rare. What I do experience, on nearly a daily basis,is that groups of thoughts will seem to emanate from a few internal individuals. In fact, when I first noticed this,as a pre-teen, I had names for these 'people in my head'. One might be very accusatory "why haven't you done such-and-such", another may talk me into putting something off by giving me a convincing argument that it can wait until I have a better day. Sometimes these 'people' will argue about me, and I with them. Is this normal to some degree? I've never told any doctor that this is how I 'think'. These people have sort off separate 'identities'.
My current dx is MDD, with the possibility of BPII (and the more I read about it, the more the BPII fits). I've also been reading up on the schizo-type disorders, and the 'voices' symptoms is worrying me.
I see my pdoc on Thursday. He will probably put me back on the Lamictal that i asked to get off of at the last appt, since I was having such difficulty thinking and remembering things, but my depression has worsened to the point where I'm sleeping for about 12 hours at a time, and would sleep more if there was no one else here with me.
Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:42:38
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by Quintal on August 19, 2007, at 23:49:55
>I sometimes hear voices, usually someone calling >out my name. It just comes straight out of the >blue but often happens after a few days with >little sleep, or at times of high stress. I >don't think it's psychosis and apparently this >is a common phenomenon.
Wow, thats intense. I have never audably heard anything that I believed was not real.
Even when I have been up days.
Somtimes I have wondered if the visual distortions are a result of all the dark chocolare I eat (86% cocoa). I hear that coco contains LSD like substances. Stuff very similar to why my friend discribes from LSD, and perhaps why they are blocked by the atypicals. (ie 5-ht2a antagonism)
Linkadge
Posted by cloudydaze on August 20, 2007, at 15:49:35
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2007, at 21:23:11
> Not to change topic but I had a question.
>
> I have never "heard voices" in that I have never heard what I would call an audible voice that was not from the environmnent.
>
> I often have times when it seems I can hear my thoughts. My thoughts become very loud, acusing me of things, reminding me of what I am not, etc etc. Anyhow, I begin to talk to myself like I am talking to these thoughts like I am talking to a separate person.
>
> I tell the thoughts to "shut up" out loud.
>
> Sometimes I say things like "I know that already, why are you telling me this again" out loud and people wonder who I am talking to.
>
> Other things, like "why won't you leave me alone", "shut the f*ck up", "get away from me"
> out loud in responce to these thoughts.
>
> I have never thought of it as being "voices", because I don't hear them audibly.
>I think this qualifies as "hearing voices".
In the past, I've thought that I was schizoaffective.
Here's a little tidbit I found:
-----------------------------------------------
Schizoaffective Disorder is characterized by the presence of one of the following:* Major Depressive Episode (must include depressed mood)
* Manic Episode
* Mixed EpisodeAs well as the presence of at least two of the following symptoms, for at least one month:
* Delusions
* Hallucinations
* Disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
* Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
* Negative symptoms (e.g., affective flattening, alogia, avolition)(Only one symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.)
---------------------------------------------The "Running Commentary" thing sounds kinda like what you're describing, I think.
Posted by FredPotter on August 20, 2007, at 16:02:10
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by cloudydaze on August 20, 2007, at 15:49:35
I still don't think we've got anyone with psychosis to join in the thread. So far none of us have been fooled by these aberrations into thinking they're real. Perhaps that's the difference. A person with schizophrenia will not be joining in this thread or surfing PB because they don't know they're ill
Posted by SometimesBlue on August 21, 2007, at 11:48:02
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom? » cloudydaze, posted by FredPotter on August 20, 2007, at 16:02:10
I have heard the usual, someone saying my name, but no one is there...that sort of thing. One time, when I was about 19, and going through a major depression/mental break-down I kept hearing voices (i think it was my own) and it would get so loud I'd have to literally shake them away (shake my head that is)...or put on loud music to get my mind of it.
I never thought I had a problem, and eventually they went away.
-SB
Posted by Quintal on August 21, 2007, at 12:12:25
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:42:38
I don't know link, but hallucinations and perceptual distortions are fairly common during sleep deprivation, so you're lucky that as a person prone to these things lack of sleep hasn't aggravated them.
There are so many psychoactive substances in cocoa so I suppose it's quite possible they're responsible for some of your symptoms if you eat large amounts.
Q
Posted by FredPotter on August 21, 2007, at 15:23:15
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom? » linkadge, posted by Quintal on August 21, 2007, at 12:12:25
They found that schizophrenics that went on a gluten free diet could be let out of hospital sooner than those on a diet with bread etc. Possibly hallucinogenic alkaloids in the seed of the bread
Posted by Quintal on August 21, 2007, at 15:45:04
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom?, posted by FredPotter on August 21, 2007, at 15:23:15
In this day and age Fred?! Back in medieval times people were forced to eat rotten rye and other grains if the harvests were poor, and the rotten grains were infested with some sort of fungus that secreted ergot alkaloids if I remember rightly.
Q
Posted by FredPotter on August 22, 2007, at 15:24:44
In reply to Re: is this a psychotic symptom? » FredPotter, posted by Quintal on August 21, 2007, at 15:45:04
It's a recent finding I think. I've lost the url though
This is the end of the thread.
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