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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:18:54
What exactly is ECT? curious?
Thanks : )
Twinch
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:38:48
In reply to ECT, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:18:54
ECT, electroconvulsive therapy, ie shock therapy.
Linkadge
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:43:20
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:38:48
Does it hurt. Do pdocs do that as a last resort?
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:46:42
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:43:20
No, it does not physically hurt as the person is not conscious when it is administered.
Yes, it is reserved as a last resort when other antidepressant trials and combinations have failed.
It caries risks of memory loss, sometimes permanant.
Some authorities also believe that it can negativly affect brain health in other ways.
Linkadge
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:49:01
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:46:42
Do you know if it stimulates cancers cells?
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:51:41
In reply to Re: ECT » linkadge, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:49:01
I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that ECT stimulates the growth of cancer cells.
Linkadge
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 23:51:11
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:51:41
what exactly does it do?
Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:26:28
In reply to Re: ECT » linkadge, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 23:51:11
Nobody knows precisely how ECT exerts its effects upon mood. There are many theories. For instance, it appears after treatments, there are higher levels of GABA in the brain.
Linkadge
Posted by Enigma on August 20, 2007, at 11:30:10
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 22:43:20
> Does it hurt. Do pdocs do that as a last resort?
See my recent post about it:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070815/msgs/777340.htmlAnd yes, it DOES HURT. Not the actual procedure when you are under anesthesia, it's the pain you suffer afterwards and before the procedure. See the other post where I describe my experience with it.
Posted by Squiggles on August 20, 2007, at 11:50:52
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:26:28
> Nobody knows precisely how ECT exerts its effects upon mood. There are many theories. For instance, it appears after treatments, there are higher levels of GABA in the brain.
>
> Linkadge"higher levels of GABA"-- interesting; is this a transient effect? I know that when you dye your hair, the outer layer expand in response to the chemical and becomes porous enough to let in the actual dye; but then the swelling goes down; there are many analogies of the effect of chemicals on any surface or substance; i wonder if this GABA increase has been studied for longer than the immediate effect and for how long;
Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 12:01:37
In reply to Re: ECT » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on August 20, 2007, at 11:50:52
Well, this is it. I would assume most of the changes that ECT induces would eventually subside.
Not sure how long this effect lasts, or really if it has any theraputic relavance.
It was a postulated mechansm. I will look for the reference. It was some study that compared the treatment effects of ECT and citalopram and concluded that those who responded to either treatment had an increase in GABA in the parietal lobes.
Linkadge
Posted by chiron on August 22, 2007, at 0:00:11
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 22:38:48
ECT is where they intentially create a seizure. I've heard it described as a recharge, I believe it increases multiple chemicals in your brain. It is the most effective treatment there is (80%), but of course it is scary, expensive, and there is the memory loss side effect.
My initial experience with it was amazing. I was pretty bad, and with only 5 treatments I felt better than I had EVER felt (I actually felt like doing things for the first time life). Unfortunately the great feeling didn't last, but it did pull me out of the deep.
I only had slight headaches that were just that day, only needed to pop some ibuprofen. I have done it occassionally since then, sometimes going in to work after (it is actually a pretty short procedure).
I did have some memory loss, some things come back after reminders. Some don't experience any, some experience a lot of memory loss.
A good book (if you are considering it), is 'Shocked' by Kitty Dukakis. Each chapter alternates between her experience and a psychiatrist giving the scientific view (and risks). She has bipolar, which it is suppose to be very effective for.
If it weren't for the memory loss and because my new anxiety has made me freak out about going under anesthesia, I would probably still be doing it. I don't care that they are shocking my brain, it feels like it needs it- I just fear the anesthesia right now, but of course I wouldn't want to be awake for it either.
Posted by linkadge on August 22, 2007, at 11:18:28
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by chiron on August 22, 2007, at 0:00:11
I read somewhere that the so called %80 sucess rate is somewhat fabricated.
My psychiatrist told me its not near %80, but that figure stands only to justifty its incidence of severe side effects.
Its also very difficult to assess sucess rate of ECT.
Since most relase in about a year, it really depends on when you ask the questions.
A doctor might call something sucessfull that a patient never would.
I heard it described this way. You're not allowed to drive home after the procedure, but you are capable of giving an acurate assessmnet of your mental condition??
Thats why that figure is controversial, because it depends on how, and when you get the data.
Linkadge
Posted by Enigma on August 22, 2007, at 12:38:58
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by chiron on August 22, 2007, at 0:00:11
> ECT is where they intentially create a seizure. I've heard it described as a recharge, I believe it increases multiple chemicals in your brain. It is the most effective treatment there is (80%), but of course it is scary, expensive, and there is the memory loss side effect.
I don't know where you got the 80% number, but the highest possible number my doctor gave me was %30. BUT, that was for ME, *I THINK*, given what I had going in, etc. He thinks I have PTSD, which no doctor out of 10 others (not including many therapists) have ever concluded I suffered from.
> My initial experience with it was amazing. I was pretty bad, and with only 5 treatments I felt better than I had EVER felt (I actually felt like doing things for the first time life). Unfortunately the great feeling didn't last, but it did pull me out of the deep.
>Looks like you got much better results than I did, especially after just 5 treatments.
> I only had slight headaches that were just that day, only needed to pop some ibuprofen. I have done it occassionally since then, sometimes going in to work after (it is actually a pretty short procedure).
>You're treatment center let you drive in to get the procedure on your own? or did someone take you.
Neither hospital I had the procedure at would let me drive that day, at all, and wouldn't even give me the procedure without physically seeing my driver. I'm sure I would have been fine, but seeing the lawsuit situation in this country (USA), and, the "just in case" factor, I agree with their rules on this.
Also, both hospitals I went to only offered the procedure very early in the morning, only on certain days. Amazing you were able to just head in after work and get it done!
> If it weren't for the memory loss and because my new anxiety has made me freak out about going under anesthesia, I would probably still be doing it. I don't care that they are shocking my brain, it feels like it needs it- I just fear the anesthesia right now, but of course I wouldn't want to be awake for it either.
>I don't really have anxiety, but I definitely do NOT like the feeling of "going under". Actually, each time they did it, I grew to hate it more and more, and became more anxious about it each time. It's just such a disturbing feeling. The burn you feel in your vein from the anesthesia, then within seconds your entire face starts tingling, then you go out, like a light, and never remember exactly at what point you go out... I think that bothered me the most.. you just have no "control"... hated that. Then, when you wake up, you have no idea if 100 years have passed, or 100 seconds. In my last hospital, they wheel you into the room, put you under, do the procedure, and then wheel you out while you are still under... so, you wake up somewhere "else", which is a feel I'll never, ever get used to.
This is the end of the thread.
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