![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
I always had prayed to write a post like this, but I never knew for sure this day would come. For 10 long years, I was absolutely ravaged by GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and accompanying depression. There were countless days that I didn't know if I would make it through the day. I never had a suicide plan, but there were times I wish I didn't have to go through the pain and suffering.
Before NARDIL saved me, this WEBSITE saved me. I am forever indebted to all the people on here who stuck with me to offer support and encouragement, or just simply showed that they cared. It meant the world to me. Thank you.
I have been on Nardil for five months. I have lost 45 lbs. I did change my diet to eliminate most cheeses and all fast foods (fried). I feel better now at the age of 37 than I did when I was 25. God is good, and so is Nardil, and as much I doubted meds, I have to say that. I feel 1/10th of the anxiety that ravaged me for 10 years before starting Nardil.
Before explaining how I got here, I need to tell you about when I was there. It started in 1997, out of nowhere, just overwhelmed by fear.
I had never experienced anxiety or depression before. When I look back, it started with a tightness in my chest. Even though the medical tests did not show anything, I still felt it and it became all I thought about. It was the beginning of a downward spiral.
There were probably other contributing factors such as so much uncertainty in so many areas of my life. It just all smacked me in the face at once, and I did not handle it well.
I really think that every person on Earth is pre-disposed to some sort of emotional illness. Some people never trigger it, while others such as myself ignite it or invite it to come out when we do not handle the pressures of life very well. Now I am talking about GAD and depression. I cannot relate at all to those who have other illnesses such as bipolar, schiz, etc. My heart goes out to you and I cannot even begin to relate.
So life smacked me in the face, and I was overwhelmed with anxiety. The best way I knew to describe it was "walking through a haunted house, and knowing you were going to get scared, but not know when and where." The anxiety took on a life of its own within me. I was either obsessed with feeling anxiety or wondering if I was only a few seconds away from feeling anxiety. And when all you do is think about yourself, you don't think of others. So I retreated into my own world, thus began the depression. I always felt better when I forced myself to be social and do things, but I rarely felt like forcing myself to do anything.
My mom nor any of my family members could not understand. Speaking about this with them was like speaking Chinese. Thankfully, they listened, and just getting off my chest often felt better than any meds.
I went to the best pdocs money could buy, and they tried every available SSRI, which never generated any response in me, except for Prozac which made me feel like I was coming out of my skin.
About three years ago, I was in another hopeless cycle and began reading people's experiences on here with Nardil. I heard a few great things about Nardil and a lot of bad things, but I kept coming back to this one point: Nardil is one of the oldest drugs around, and it would not still be around if it didn't work. It had to be working for some people, so I needed to try it.
First I had to convince a pdoc to let me try it, which was nearly impossible. All my high-tech pdocs were SSRI-only pdocs and flat-out refused to prescribe Nardil because of the "MAOI restrictions" or simply because they never bothered to research any of the older drugs. I will stop here on that subject, which involves pdocs and pharm reps, because I don't want this post to be deleted or moved. You can figure out the rest yourself.
Fortunately, with the help of some people on this board, I was instructed to find a pdoc who was a college researcher, many of which are known as "treatment-resistant" pdocs. The guy I saw last summer is actually one of the co-founders of EMSAM.
He first tried me on EMSAM for three months. It helped me. On a scale of 1-10, I felt like a 6. I wanted an 8 or 9. To do that, I knew I would have to try to NARDIL, which scared me to death because I read so many negative experiences on here, along with a few positive. But the few positive were defiant in its effect on them, so I knew I would have to find the courage to try it. I told myself, I could also go back to EMSAM.
The first fear was "deadly" food interactions. I think you need to consult your own pdoc, but I have tried just about every food on that banned list with the exception of banana peels and fava beans, etc., and have never felt better. What I did eat, I ate in moderation, such as cheese. I know there is a first time for everything, and this could all change tomorrow, but I have yet to have any resemblance of a food interaction.
Now I did change my diet to adjust my body for Nardil. I cut out the fast foods, fried foods, red meat. I usually eat fruit for breakfast, oatmeal or grilled chicken for lunch and anything I want for dinner, just in small proportions. I worked out for years and never lost a pound. I changed my eating habits and dropped 45 in 3 months.
That's the second fear, weight gain. I honestly believe that there are people who gain a lot of weight on Nardil. I also honestly believe there are a lot of people who gain a lot of weight without taking any meds.
My "treatment-resistant" pdoc told me the "weight gain" issue was untrue. He said I should be prepared for "blackouts" in the opening weeks of trying Nardil, and he was right.
I'm not going to lie, those first 6 weeks on Nardil were tough. I had blackouts whenever I rose out of bed too quickly. Or sat up too quickly. I would stumble around, and walk out of balance. My family was very concerned.
I also had major constipation, hence the introduction of oatmeal and baked sweet potatoes to my daily diet. I also had insomnia and daytime sedation. I checked my BP all the time and it was fine.
Eventually, as the pdoc said, all the symptoms went away, even the blackouts. The daytime sedation took the longest. I started either drinking one caffeine drink or taking 1 No Doz tablet, and that helped a lot until my body finally adjusted.
I somehow willed myself through those first 6 weeks, and then I saw things that I thought I would never see. The anxiety slowly went away. Rather than thinking about it every 20 seconds, it was every 20 minutes, then every two hours.
I have always believed, right or wrong, that meds are the short term answer, and therapy is long term. But I am willing to stay on meds for the long term. Anyways, the point I am trying to make is it took me quite a while to get used to feeling normal. After 10 years of being ravaged by anxiety, it felt awkward not being ravaged. My mind had been conditioned in such a terrible way that it felt abnormal to feel normal. Does that make sense?
Anyways, as time went by, I began to feel better for longer periods of time. And each time, I gained confidence in how I felt. Now my thoughts are re-trained (your brain can do it, too!) and the normal feels normal.
My mom told me the other day that I had not mentioned anything about anxiety in a couple of months. I never noticed, I just slowly felt better. But when I thought about that, I cried. I never thought it was possible. I gave up hope so many times of ever feeling somewhat normal again.
I do not know whether or not NARDIL is the right drug for you. I do not think you will know what medicine is right for you unless you try it because THE FACT is every med affects everyone differently.
And that brings me to my final point on Nardil. I believe many of the "horror stories" about Nardil have some truth to them, but I am unsure if the entire stories of those experiences were told. In other words, some people may have taken Nardil with drugs that encouraged or caused the negative reactions.
I take Nardil (15mg) three times per day. At night, I take 25-50mg of Seroquel for sleep (down from 400mg), along with 1mg of Klonopin (down from 5mg). That combination works great for me, but in somebody else it may cause the direct opposite result. I don't know. Unfortunately, this is all trial and error. Some people may have taken Nardil with Xanax or Buspar or Tylenol PM or Adderrall or Ritalin or Lithium or the Purple Pill or migraine medicine or allergy meds or Valium or Viagra, or something that caused a negative reaction. There are just so many countless variables. Some people may have not stayed on it long enough (I sure thought about quitting many times during those first 6 weeks and it may take 16 weeks to kick in with others).
Then there are other issues, such as someone may think they have GAD when they are really bipolar II or various forms of depression, etc., and the latter has yet to be properly diagnosed and never will. Or with your natural body chemistry, Nardil or (name a med) just wasn't made to work for you.
I have been a living science experiment. I lost count at 30, including all of the SSRIs. But I kept trying new meds, hoping I would find something that worked. And I did, much to my shock and amazement. Life is good.
Nardil is my answer, but may not be your answer. You may want to consider a "treatment resistant" doc. To find one, call the largest medical college in your state. Ask for the department of pysch and then ask for a recommendation for a "treatment-resistant" doc near you. Or you might want to post the state you live in on this board with your email address (create one if you dont want anyone to know your personal email).
Thanks again to everyone on this board for all of your encouragement and support, and for being with me during all the challenging times. This post was meant 100-percent as encouragement, to share a success story. It does happen, even after 10 years of despair.
I know Nardil is most definitely not the miracle drug for many in here, but it MAY be for a few. I want to leave with you this thought:
NEVER, EVER give up hope. You may think you have tried all the drugs, like I did. But there is always a new drug coming out OR an old drug try OR a new combination of the new and old ones. Please don't ever give up hope, please. Michael
Posted by polarbear206 on August 15, 2007, at 8:16:55
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
> I always had prayed to write a post like this, but I never knew for sure this day would come. For 10 long years, I was absolutely ravaged by GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and accompanying depression. There were countless days that I didn't know if I would make it through the day. I never had a suicide plan, but there were times I wish I didn't have to go through the pain and suffering.
>
> Before NARDIL saved me, this WEBSITE saved me. I am forever indebted to all the people on here who stuck with me to offer support and encouragement, or just simply showed that they cared. It meant the world to me. Thank you.
>
> I have been on Nardil for five months. I have lost 45 lbs. I did change my diet to eliminate most cheeses and all fast foods (fried). I feel better now at the age of 37 than I did when I was 25. God is good, and so is Nardil, and as much I doubted meds, I have to say that. I feel 1/10th of the anxiety that ravaged me for 10 years before starting Nardil.
>
> Before explaining how I got here, I need to tell you about when I was there. It started in 1997, out of nowhere, just overwhelmed by fear.
>
> I had never experienced anxiety or depression before. When I look back, it started with a tightness in my chest. Even though the medical tests did not show anything, I still felt it and it became all I thought about. It was the beginning of a downward spiral.
>
> There were probably other contributing factors such as so much uncertainty in so many areas of my life. It just all smacked me in the face at once, and I did not handle it well.
>
> I really think that every person on Earth is pre-disposed to some sort of emotional illness. Some people never trigger it, while others such as myself ignite it or invite it to come out when we do not handle the pressures of life very well. Now I am talking about GAD and depression. I cannot relate at all to those who have other illnesses such as bipolar, schiz, etc. My heart goes out to you and I cannot even begin to relate.
>
> So life smacked me in the face, and I was overwhelmed with anxiety. The best way I knew to describe it was "walking through a haunted house, and knowing you were going to get scared, but not know when and where." The anxiety took on a life of its own within me. I was either obsessed with feeling anxiety or wondering if I was only a few seconds away from feeling anxiety. And when all you do is think about yourself, you don't think of others. So I retreated into my own world, thus began the depression. I always felt better when I forced myself to be social and do things, but I rarely felt like forcing myself to do anything.
>
> My mom nor any of my family members could not understand. Speaking about this with them was like speaking Chinese. Thankfully, they listened, and just getting off my chest often felt better than any meds.
>
> I went to the best pdocs money could buy, and they tried every available SSRI, which never generated any response in me, except for Prozac which made me feel like I was coming out of my skin.
>
> About three years ago, I was in another hopeless cycle and began reading people's experiences on here with Nardil. I heard a few great things about Nardil and a lot of bad things, but I kept coming back to this one point: Nardil is one of the oldest drugs around, and it would not still be around if it didn't work. It had to be working for some people, so I needed to try it.
>
> First I had to convince a pdoc to let me try it, which was nearly impossible. All my high-tech pdocs were SSRI-only pdocs and flat-out refused to prescribe Nardil because of the "MAOI restrictions" or simply because they never bothered to research any of the older drugs. I will stop here on that subject, which involves pdocs and pharm reps, because I don't want this post to be deleted or moved. You can figure out the rest yourself.
>
> Fortunately, with the help of some people on this board, I was instructed to find a pdoc who was a college researcher, many of which are known as "treatment-resistant" pdocs. The guy I saw last summer is actually one of the co-founders of EMSAM.
>
> He first tried me on EMSAM for three months. It helped me. On a scale of 1-10, I felt like a 6. I wanted an 8 or 9. To do that, I knew I would have to try to NARDIL, which scared me to death because I read so many negative experiences on here, along with a few positive. But the few positive were defiant in its effect on them, so I knew I would have to find the courage to try it. I told myself, I could also go back to EMSAM.
>
> The first fear was "deadly" food interactions. I think you need to consult your own pdoc, but I have tried just about every food on that banned list with the exception of banana peels and fava beans, etc., and have never felt better. What I did eat, I ate in moderation, such as cheese. I know there is a first time for everything, and this could all change tomorrow, but I have yet to have any resemblance of a food interaction.
>
> Now I did change my diet to adjust my body for Nardil. I cut out the fast foods, fried foods, red meat. I usually eat fruit for breakfast, oatmeal or grilled chicken for lunch and anything I want for dinner, just in small proportions. I worked out for years and never lost a pound. I changed my eating habits and dropped 45 in 3 months.
>
> That's the second fear, weight gain. I honestly believe that there are people who gain a lot of weight on Nardil. I also honestly believe there are a lot of people who gain a lot of weight without taking any meds.
>
> My "treatment-resistant" pdoc told me the "weight gain" issue was untrue. He said I should be prepared for "blackouts" in the opening weeks of trying Nardil, and he was right.
>
> I'm not going to lie, those first 6 weeks on Nardil were tough. I had blackouts whenever I rose out of bed too quickly. Or sat up too quickly. I would stumble around, and walk out of balance. My family was very concerned.
>
> I also had major constipation, hence the introduction of oatmeal and baked sweet potatoes to my daily diet. I also had insomnia and daytime sedation. I checked my BP all the time and it was fine.
>
> Eventually, as the pdoc said, all the symptoms went away, even the blackouts. The daytime sedation took the longest. I started either drinking one caffeine drink or taking 1 No Doz tablet, and that helped a lot until my body finally adjusted.
>
> I somehow willed myself through those first 6 weeks, and then I saw things that I thought I would never see. The anxiety slowly went away. Rather than thinking about it every 20 seconds, it was every 20 minutes, then every two hours.
>
> I have always believed, right or wrong, that meds are the short term answer, and therapy is long term. But I am willing to stay on meds for the long term. Anyways, the point I am trying to make is it took me quite a while to get used to feeling normal. After 10 years of being ravaged by anxiety, it felt awkward not being ravaged. My mind had been conditioned in such a terrible way that it felt abnormal to feel normal. Does that make sense?
>
> Anyways, as time went by, I began to feel better for longer periods of time. And each time, I gained confidence in how I felt. Now my thoughts are re-trained (your brain can do it, too!) and the normal feels normal.
>
> My mom told me the other day that I had not mentioned anything about anxiety in a couple of months. I never noticed, I just slowly felt better. But when I thought about that, I cried. I never thought it was possible. I gave up hope so many times of ever feeling somewhat normal again.
>
> I do not know whether or not NARDIL is the right drug for you. I do not think you will know what medicine is right for you unless you try it because THE FACT is every med affects everyone differently.
>
> And that brings me to my final point on Nardil. I believe many of the "horror stories" about Nardil have some truth to them, but I am unsure if the entire stories of those experiences were told. In other words, some people may have taken Nardil with drugs that encouraged or caused the negative reactions.
>
> I take Nardil (15mg) three times per day. At night, I take 25-50mg of Seroquel for sleep (down from 400mg), along with 1mg of Klonopin (down from 5mg). That combination works great for me, but in somebody else it may cause the direct opposite result. I don't know. Unfortunately, this is all trial and error. Some people may have taken Nardil with Xanax or Buspar or Tylenol PM or Adderrall or Ritalin or Lithium or the Purple Pill or migraine medicine or allergy meds or Valium or Viagra, or something that caused a negative reaction. There are just so many countless variables. Some people may have not stayed on it long enough (I sure thought about quitting many times during those first 6 weeks and it may take 16 weeks to kick in with others).
>
> Then there are other issues, such as someone may think they have GAD when they are really bipolar II or various forms of depression, etc., and the latter has yet to be properly diagnosed and never will. Or with your natural body chemistry, Nardil or (name a med) just wasn't made to work for you.
>
> I have been a living science experiment. I lost count at 30, including all of the SSRIs. But I kept trying new meds, hoping I would find something that worked. And I did, much to my shock and amazement. Life is good.
>
> Nardil is my answer, but may not be your answer. You may want to consider a "treatment resistant" doc. To find one, call the largest medical college in your state. Ask for the department of pysch and then ask for a recommendation for a "treatment-resistant" doc near you. Or you might want to post the state you live in on this board with your email address (create one if you dont want anyone to know your personal email).
>
> Thanks again to everyone on this board for all of your encouragement and support, and for being with me during all the challenging times. This post was meant 100-percent as encouragement, to share a success story. It does happen, even after 10 years of despair.
>
> I know Nardil is most definitely not the miracle drug for many in here, but it MAY be for a few. I want to leave with you this thought:
>
> NEVER, EVER give up hope. You may think you have tried all the drugs, like I did. But there is always a new drug coming out OR an old drug try OR a new combination of the new and old ones. Please don't ever give up hope, please. MichaelThanks for sharing your story. What a long road you have traveled to reach "normalcy" It all comes down to what your posting name is; "U GOTTA HAVE HOPE" and HOPE prevailed.
Polarbear
Posted by KayeBaby on August 15, 2007, at 8:17:45
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
Oh! Exciting!
I am so so happy for you.Thank you for doing this positive write-up.
This kind of posting saves lives. Michael, you chose your PB name well.Congratulations!
You deserve this.Kaye
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 10:21:02
In reply to Re: NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life » UgottaHaveHope, posted by KayeBaby on August 15, 2007, at 8:17:45
Thanks everyone for your kind words.
I wrote that late at night, and if I had to make some changes, it would be this: What medicine that works for you may not work for me, and what medicine works for me may not work for you.
BUT I can assure that there is some med out there, be it Nardil, Prozac or (you name it) that will help you. It is just a matter of hanging in there with hope, being willing to try new meds, staying on those meds long enough to see if they work (usually 6-12 weeks), and then be willing to start all over if they don't. I know, it is a brutal process, and it took me 10 years to find something that helped. But I'm telling you, all that I went through over that long period is worth it now.
So I really don't want this post to be about Nardil, but rather to encourage others to have hope. To try the new drugs OR old drugs OR a combination of both - ALL under the supervision of your pdoc.
And what about those 10 years? Now that I feel good, am I angry that I felt bad during the years that many feel are the "prime" of your life? The answer was yes, but now it is most definitely NO.
I really think there was a reason I was destined to go through this pain and suffering. For starters, if you would have told me at the age of 25 that emotional illnesses exist, I would have laughed at you and said "only in your head." Boy I was humbled in that area of my life. I got smacked down unlike any other. I hit the lowest of lows. It forced me to dig deep on many life issues, including spiritual stuff I had never wanted to face, and totally changed my perspective of everything. I mean, everything.
Believe it or not, I now look back at my long 10 years of being ravaged by anxiety as a good thing. Or that is how I have chosen to see it. I have chosen to focus on the positive rather than the negative. And the positive is after going through all of that (and it may happen again), it instilled such a compassion for others who are also dealing with similar issues. I may not know exactly how you feel, but I know how I felt and I did not like it.
When you get out into the world, it is stunning with how many other people are dealing with stuff like this. In fact, if it is the only thing I have learned about life, it is that "everybody is dealing with something." Mine might be GAD (generalized anxiety disorder), yours might be depression, his might be Bipolar II, hers might alcoholism, that person may have a drug problem, this person may have no self esteem because they were emotionally abused as a child, this other person may have a masters degree yet not be able to sustain a job, another may be a workaholic and not pay any attention to their family, someone may not be able to maintain any relationships (friends or romantic), etc. I could go on and on.
And when you think about all of that, you realize you are not alone. And when you realize you are not alone, you realize you are not alone, which changes everything. You know there are others going through the same type of stuff. Some have handled it better than others, and those some are the ones you try to model yourselves after. You can find those "ones" at a group meeting for a certain type of emotional illness, or on a message board like this, or through a random conversation. Chances are, there is someone you know very well that is dealing with some of the same stuff, but you may have never realized it. Yet. Maybe events will occur for you to bring up the issue in passing and then you have found a support person where you never thought you would have found a support person. I don't know, you just have to see what path life takes you.
Thank gosh meds were invented. And, perhaps equally as importantly, this message board was created. I stayed on this thing for 24/7 for years. I learned so much, and it really helped me think outside of the box about what meds may or may not help me. I just was absolutely amazed with how many people were willing to share the intimate details of their challenges in life in such great detail. That is what motivated me. Someone may have written 1,000 words, but there may have been two sentences that had some information that empowered or encouraged me. That is what I looked for and often found. And again, I am forever grateful for those who put themselves "out there" and were willing to tell it all for the greater good of all in here. There are so many like that, that I don't even know who to begin thanking.
Let me go back to the meds to finish this post: Again, I don't know whether or not Nardil or (insert med here) is the answer for you, I just know there is a medicine that is an answer for you.
Please continue posting your uncensored thoughts, perspectives on your own situation and the medicines you are taking because there are a ton of people in here who can help you or offer perspectives. I would not take anything as the total truth, just because every med affects everyone differently. But I would take it as information that would help me think "outside of the box" and make me consider trying other things, under the supervision of my pdoc.
As much as I hate to admit it, when I read of the success stories of other here in the past, it bothered me. I wanted to know why they were well and I wasn't well, and I had searched so long to be well. So if you feel the same way, I understand and it is perfectly OK. My heart goes out to you, that is only a natural feeling, considering the circumstances. I feel your frustration.
Thanks again for everyone in PBabble for responding to my zillion questions and having patience with me. I am forever indebted. Michael
Posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2007, at 10:35:30
In reply to Re: NARDIL is a miracle drug ... those 10 years, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 10:21:02
Michael you are a wonderful person and deserve it. And I've always loved your name think I may have said this to you already. And the biggest congratulations to you. Love Phillipa
Posted by unbottled on August 15, 2007, at 13:29:27
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
This is a wonderful encouraging message, but I've got one question - what about sex - libido & mechanics? I expect I'm going to be a Nardil person myself one day, but am still on Selegiline which has good sex side effects (if anything) instead of bad.
Posted by saturn on August 15, 2007, at 20:24:31
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
I rarely read posts this long but I'm glad I did and so happy for you. :) :)
Posted by FredPotter on August 15, 2007, at 20:48:05
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
Michael well done. What a great post. I'm the same as you. Nardil took 6.5 weeks to work but then I became happy. I do have some problems like I work hard during the week but crash out at weekends, and the old habit of agoraphobia makes it difficult for me to go out. Well it's not really fear just great resistance against going out. Then it's a week day again and I'm up at 6. I love work for the social aspect, the sense of purpose and and the sense of being needed. But I needed Nardil to make that all possible. I have put on a little weight and my sex life has gone down the toilet however. Also like you said people were concerned about my somnolent state and my faintness and dizziness. I could have let them put me off but I stuck with it
The ironic thing is my symptoms of terrible anxiety came suddeny in 1964. Yes 1964. Nardil was around then but no-one suggested it. How different things might have been
Fred
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 15, 2007, at 22:06:17
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
Thank you for your encouraging message, UgotaHaveHope.
I got a couple of questions for you.
You say you've been on Nardil for 10 years. So I assume you had to switch from the old Nardil to the new Nardil recently (2003), correct? So I want to ask you: how was the transition? Does the new Nardil work equally well for you as the old version did?How long did it take for it to kick in (both versions?)
I've been on the new version of Nardil for 9 weeks and I don't think it has "kicked in" yet. I do feel slightly better, but not significantly so.
My point of reference is comparing my Nardil experience to my successful SSRI (Celexa) experience. With Celexa, rating from 1-10, I probably got to an 8 or 9 in relief. Nardil is giving me probably a 4-5 relief so far. I'm going to wait longer, though. Will give it 3-4 months to see if it ends up doing what it promises to do.
Oh, and regarding side-effects: Celexa = zero side effects. Nardil? Need I even mention them? They're not terrible, in fact quite tolerable, but yes, definitely quite a set of side-effects. Beginning with the food restrictions. They aren't terrible, but enough to keep you on guard 24/7.
Second, and this is the very first time I hear from someone having the same side-effect I suffer from: Blackouts, or by its medical terminology: Syncope.
I had never heard of anyone on Nardil having this side-effect, so I was very surprised when I got it. I asked my pdoc about it, and he claimed Nardil DOES NOT cause such side-effects as syncope, so I had to go see my regular doctor to check myself for this. Geez. Some pdocs have very limited knowledge about MAOIs. I even read about this in a Nardil pamphlet. I wonder how he got the guts to prescribe it with the little knowledge he seems to have. He was the only pdoc in 4 years who agreed to prescribe it. But for that alone I think I have to be extremely grateful to him and oversee any errors on his part.
I have learned to tolerate the blackouts, and to stop them when possible. I kind of know when one is coming (you start feeling your head really warm and light..) so I either get down on the floor, sit down somewhere, or hold myself from something.
The funniest blackout I've had so far was one night that I got up from lying in bed, and for some reason I didn't see it coming, so I just kept walking. Well, I fell flat on my back!! It was hilarious. I didn't hit myself too hard because I probably ended up putting my elbows in the last minute. But it's weird because sometimes when I end up on the floor, my legs start having spasms. I almost feel like I'm going to have a seizure.
Also, when I carry heavy things, I used to have a lot of energy. Now I get tired so easily. I feel like there isn't enough oxygen running through my extremities so it causes quick exhaustion.
Anyway, thank you for posting about your experience. It is very encouraging, and well, hopefully it's true that we all have a medication waiting for us that will finally make us feel normal.
Best,
GI78
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 23:45:46
In reply to Re: NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life » UgottaHaveHope, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 15, 2007, at 22:06:17
Yes LOL, I did write long, but I know when the roles were reversed, and someone was sharing their experiences on a certain drug or drug combo, I always wanted to hear every detail or would ask questions until I did. So I wrote it from that approach.
UNBOTTLED: I don't think I my sexual hormones were up to my normal levels during those first 6-10 weeks, but they are just fine now. It sounds like you are doing well on Selegiline, so you might want to consider giving that drug a longer trial. That's one drug that is very rarely ever discussed on here, so perhaps you can tell you entire story about how you got to that one. I'd be interested to hear it, along with what exactly it is doing for you. I've heard all about the Selegiline (EMSAM) patch, but not the pill, which I assume is what you are taking.
FRED POTTER: My dear friend, glad to hear you are feeling better. You know what? I would gladly gain 45 lbs. rather than lose 45 lbs. to feel like I do now. It was worth the trade-off to me. And I never intended to lose weight, I was just changing my diet to do my best to MAINTAIN weight, not lose it. That's a bummer about 1964, I agree with you. But Nardil was also around in 1997 when it all started for me, and it took me 9 years to reach it. But I can't beat myself up for that. Who knows? Maybe if I would've taken it earlier, I wouldn't have had the guts to stick out during those tough 6 opening weeks. And the past is the past, nothing I can do about it. I've just got to focus on the now, and I'm grateful where I am at the present moment.
GIRL78: I have been challenged by GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and accompanying depression for 10 years, only been taking NARDIL for five MONTHS. I've read thousands of articles on Old Nardil vs. New Nardil and finally reached this conclusion: New Nardil is the only drug available to me in the U.S., and I haven't thought of it since. BLACKOUTS? Wow, you have had some wild times on Nardil. I am glad you are OK. My pdoc said everyone he has ever put on Nardil (and it's got to be in the 1000s) has had to initially deal with blackouts. Everyone. He was not concerned about the weight gain, but he promised me the blackouts were coming and they did. But they went. Sounds like you were doing great on Celexa, interested to know why you changed. But yes, with Nardil, this was my once in a lifetime trial. What that means is that I was going to give it the FULL trial, meaning 12 weeks, no matter how bad it got. And it was pretty rough those first 6-7 weeks. But I was Hell bent on making it through because I had to rule out Nardil once and for all, I had wanted to try it for years and finally found someone to prescribe it. My family was very, very concerned about me at times. But I kept trucking through. And in the back of my mind, I always knew I could fall back on EMSAM, which made me feel like a 6 on scale 1-10. But I wanted my shot at a higher score.
STARGAZER: I am worried about you. Please keep posting on your progress. I am pulling for you. You are much tougher than me, you can do it.
TO ALL: I can't really say that I feel "good" or "normal" because I don't know what "good" or "normal" is, there are so many different definitions. However, without a doubt, this is a FACT: At this moment, I feel a lot better on Nardil than I did when I was not taking Nardil. It's a whole new world. Black and white TO color.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 16, 2007, at 0:32:42
In reply to Re: NARDIL Qs and pulling for you StarGazer, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 23:45:46
> He was not concerned about the weight gain, but he promised me the blackouts were coming and they did. But they went.
Apparently he is very knowledgeable (AND experienced after having 1000's of patients on Nardil.) I haven't had any weight gain at all thank god, my only side effect are the blackouts. By the way, how long did it take you for the blackouts to go?
Personally, I don't think they're going to go away in my case. I had blackouts all throughout my teen years, so I guess I'm very prone to them. Hadn't had one in the last 7 years, until Nardil brought them back with a vengeance.
Oh, and I had another side-effect that sent me to the ER. Not sure if you read my thread, but my "knowledgeable" pdoc took me from 45mgs Nardil, straight to 90mgs. The result? A 1-hour-long splitting, pounding headache that made me think I was having a hypertensive reaction.
> Sounds like you were doing great on Celexa, interested to know why you changed.
I never wanted to change. I don't have insurance, so I was getting samples of Celexa from my pdoc. I never had to pay for it.
But at some point, Lexapro, the "superior version of Celexa" made its appearance, so my pdoc began receiving only Lexapro samples and no more Celexa. He decided to switch me because Lexapro was just like Celexa, except "better." Well, within a week on Lexapro, my depression was back with a vengeance. I put $$ out of my pocket to go back on Celexa, and much to my dismay, Celexa was not working anymore. After ONLY a week and a half on Lexapro, Celexa gave me only a 3-5 relief, when it had previously given me 8-9 relief for a whole year. That was the end of Celexa. Very sad experience.
> But yes, with Nardil, this was my once in a lifetime trial. What that means is that I was going to give it the FULL trial, meaning 12 weeks, no matter how bad it got. And it was pretty rough those first 6-7 weeks. But I was Hell bent on making it through because I had to rule out Nardil once and for all, I had wanted to try it for years and finally found someone to prescribe it.
Exactly my thoughts. I will go as far as 16 weeks, because I also want to give it a full trial. It's not bothering me too much, because like I said, I had the blackouts when I was younger (except probably not as severe) but as long as I'm very careful to get up slowly, I'm fine. Oh, and there's another thing that gives me the blackouts: I used to climb 11 flights of stairs (I live in a high building) without a problem. Now, after 3 flights, I blackout. So, I also have to control sudden physical efforts and not decide to start running or squat and get up all of a sudden.
> My family was very, very concerned about me at times. But I kept trucking through. And in the back of my mind, I always knew I could fall back on EMSAM, which made me feel like a 6 on scale 1-10. But I wanted my shot at a higher score.
Oh well, maybe I should try Emsam if Nardil ends up failing me. I had so much faith in Nardil. It is the only medication that targets every single aspect of my depression: atypical depression, social anxiety, rejection sensitivity and treatment-resistant depression. Everything in that med that everyone has called the "gold standard". It just has to work and I will wait for as long as I can.
Thank you for your response
GI78
Posted by jhj on August 16, 2007, at 7:00:21
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
HiI have been suffering from Social phobia,GAD and treatment resistand depression for years.I have tried many drugs like you but failed to improve.I discussed with my Pdoctor about Nardil and he was reluctant to give me it because of the same things said to you about side effects.I have heard that it has very good efficacy in social phobia so i was about to try it after convincing my pdoctor which i thing i would be able to do it.You have written good things about nardil but at the same time confirmed its terrible side effects.Now,i have again started to fear that Nardil would be unbearable.Should i give it a shot? will i be able to continue working after taking Nardil? thanks
Posted by JohnSky on August 16, 2007, at 10:16:23
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
What a great post! Congratulations to you!
I wondered if any of you have heard of the discussions surrounding a reformulation of Nardil in 2003? People say that if they were on the old version they didn't respond nearly as well to the new formulation? Any truth to this?
Also, Did you have any start-up anxiety with Nardil. With almost all ADs I get start up anxiety so I was wondering.
Thanks
John
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 16, 2007, at 12:07:27
In reply to Re: NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by JohnSky on August 16, 2007, at 10:16:23
GI78: Yes my "treatment-resistent" specialist pdoc has probably prescribed MAOIs as much as any pdoc in the country, but I am sure he has made his share of mistakes, too. As far as your pdoc going from 45 to 90 mg overnight, I will plead the 5th. All I can say is that my pdoc was emphatic when I started Nardil that I go up slowly. Rather than taking 45 mg the first day, it was 15mg for two days, and 30mg for three days and then the 45. He said the body needed time to adjust. Sorry about those blackouts, but I am glad to see you giving your current med a full trial, no matter what. I'm pulling for you. Please keep posting updates.
JHJ: Only you can make the call on whether or not it is worth a try. I do hope, if you do decide to try any medicine, that you commit to giving it a full trial, even when things get challenging (unless it's life-threatening). I did confirm that Nardil had tough side effects, but that was only during the first 6 WEEKS. After that, they slowly went away and the only thing I feel now is some tiredness, but I felt that before I was on Nardil. And every med affects everyone differently, you may have no side effects. Unfortunately, you will never know until you try any med. But again, I hope once you make a decision about any med, you stick with it and give it a full trial, knowing there may be some bumps in the road on the way to an incredible road to recovery. By the way, to put things in context, I had FAR, FAR WORSE side effects on SSRIs, especially Prozac. The worst day on Nardil was far better than my best day on Prozac. It can't get much worse than Prozac for my body.
JohnSky: Did I have any startup anxiety with Nardil? No. I had ongoing and current anxiety when starting it, though, for 10 long years. I guess when taking any new med I have had some fear, but I try to equate with hope that this med "might be THE ONE." I understand where you are coming from on that one, but I pressed forward because I knew if I didn't try any new meds that my situation at the time would not change. OLD NARDIL vs. NEW NARDIL. I studied this issue forever, and finally realized it was a huge waste of time because the only medicinal option I had was the New Nardil in the U.S. And I haven't thought of it since. There are plenty of Nardil users that cruise through here and you may want to create a post for that exact subject if it is something you really want to investigate. I just never had the option of Old Nardil, therefore it was a waste of time thinking about it for me.
Posted by FredPotter on August 16, 2007, at 16:17:10
In reply to Re: NARDIL Qs and pulling for you StarGazer, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 23:45:46
Hi Michael thanks for your post. Yes you're uncannily right about having the determination to stick it out through the side effects. For as a matter of fact I was prescribed Marplan in 1980 but gave up because of side effects. I didn't have PB to encourage me then and the pdoc didn't warn me about side effects
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on August 16, 2007, at 16:19:39
In reply to fear of Nardil-Ugottahavehope, posted by jhj on August 16, 2007, at 7:00:21
I wouldn't say the side effects are "terrible". Not nearly as bad as the illness
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 16, 2007, at 23:41:11
In reply to Re: fear of Nardil-Ugottahavehope » jhj, posted by FredPotter on August 16, 2007, at 16:19:39
Seems like everyone reacts differently to Nardil and has different side effects.
But I agree they aren't terrible. Well, at least the side effects I have aren't.
If I had gained several pounds on Nardil, I'd probably be very upset about it.
But so far, no weight gain. Only the blackouts and a little anxiety (shaking after taking a dose) which can be fixed easily with half a pill of Klonopin.
The blackouts aren't as often now, since I learned to take control of them by doing less of what causes them.
What kind of side effects do you have, Fred?
Posted by blueboy on August 18, 2007, at 9:16:12
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
I have had GAD, social anxiety, and periodic depression for well over 40 years. Nardil is the only drug that I have been able to tolerate. It really helps the depression. The anxiety -- some but not so much help with the anxiety. I use clonozepam as needed.
I got some relief from Prozac, but I can't tolerate it or any other SSRI. I had a bad seizure episode from Wellbutrin and lots of weird stuff on various SSRI's like clonic movement, bad bad "Restless Leg Syndrome".
Anyway, by the time my pdoc suggested Nardil, I had tried at least 20 other meds of various shapes and sizes.
I had fairly bad recurrent side effects from Nardil, including weight gain, rash, urinary problems, sexual problems, horrendous insomnia, stomach acid, dizziness, and so on. After a couple of years I stopped taking it due to a body rash (just a precaution and I'm not even sure it was caused by the Nardil). Right now I'm off it.
Nardil was a godsend to me. I guess you can tell, since I kept taking it even with the bad side effects. I was "dead in the water" before I started it. A good day was one where I managed to take a shower. With it, I would have maybe 8 hours of happy, optimistic, productive work time most days.
I am in spontaneous remission right now and hoping it will last for a long time, as it has done in the past on occasion (I've had periods of 1-5 years comparatively symptom free in my life).
My pdoc is suggesting I think about Emsam, ECT, and even possibly lithium or thyroid hormone when my symptoms come back, if I don't want to restart Nardil.
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 7:42:49
In reply to Re: NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by blueboy on August 18, 2007, at 9:16:12
Hi blueboy,
I'd like to ask you a couple of questions, if you don't mind:
a) What version of Nardil were you taking? Was it the old version, or the 2003 reformulated version by Pfizer?
b) How were you able to function on Nardil, when it was causing you terrible insomnia? I usually can't function if I don't get any sleep, so I find it strange that you were so productive despite the bad insomnia (?) How did that happen?
c) You mentioned a rash. What kind of rash did you have on Nardil? What parts of the body did it affect, and was it permanent?
I also had a few "rashes" while on Nardil, although I don't even know what it really was. It only lasted like 4 minutes, and appeared right after I took one of my doses. It didn't itch or hurt, it was just a temporary body discoloration that followed my doses, appearing 20 minutes after each dose of Nardil was taken.d) Last but not least, did you ever suffer from blackouts (syncope) on Nardil? Apparently it's a common side effect.
Well, thanks a lot. If you get a chance to reply to these questions, I'd really appreciate it.
Sincerely,
GI78
Posted by FredPotter on August 19, 2007, at 15:54:48
In reply to Re: fear of Nardil-Ugottahavehope » FredPotter, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 16, 2007, at 23:41:11
weight gain, complete loss of sexual function, dizziness, low blood pressure on standing, trembling knees
Posted by blueboy on August 20, 2007, at 12:47:46
In reply to Re: NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life » blueboy, posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 7:42:49
> Hi blueboy,
>> a) What version of Nardil were you taking? Was it the old version, or the 2003 reformulated version by Pfizer?
The reformulated version; I never took the old version.
> b) How were you able to function on Nardil, when it was causing you terrible insomnia? I usually can't function if I don't get any sleep, so I find it strange that you were so productive despite the bad insomnia (?) How did that happen?
Two things.
First, it was "activating", in shrink jargon, so when I woke up after 4 hours of sleep I was wide awake and rarin' to go. Or if I woke up in the middle of the night or couldn't go to sleep, I'd get up and work.I would crash and take a one-hour nap a lot of times. This was by no means perfect but I had good, long periods of full mental function a lot of days. Obviously, this would be a lot less effective, if not impossible, for someone with a "regular job", i.e. a set timeframe for work.
But I will say, usually, Nardil acts enough as an "upper" that even when exhausted, I could push myself to get work done. It's not a lot of fun but is still a lot better than serious depression, when I can't get ANYTHING done even if I don't feel particularly "sad" or whatever.
Second, I coped. I took a lot of chemical sleep aids such as Ambien, etc., and also infrequent doses of 2.5-3 mg of Klonopin. And like I said, I had the capability to push myself when I was quite tired.
> c) You mentioned a rash. What kind of rash did you have on Nardil? What parts of the body did it affect, and was it permanent?
It seemed to particularly affect my neck and sometimes face, but could pop up anywhere. It would be bright red and usually would itch.
I actually still have a lesser version of it since I went off Nardil. Partly it is a peculiar condition that my dermatologist knew about, where if you scratch your skin, you get an itching rash where you scratched.
What got me off Nardil was a one-time, still unexplained rash I got on vacation, including red bumps on most of my torso and limbs with some petichia, i.e. little red spots caused by baby hemorrhages. It didn't itch or hurt at all, it just scared me. Neither I nor my doctors have ever been able to figure out what caused it.
> I also had a few "rashes" while on Nardil, although I don't even know what it really was. It only lasted like 4 minutes, and appeared right after I took one of my doses. It didn't itch or hurt, it was just a temporary body discoloration that followed my doses, appearing 20 minutes after each dose of Nardil was taken.
Mine was unrelated to dosage time. They just came and went at apparent random times.
> d) Last but not least, did you ever suffer from blackouts (syncope) on Nardil? Apparently it's a common side effect.No, never. I would become dizzy sometimes from what I believe was postural hypotension, i.e. low blood pressure while standing.
I have never fainted in my life; I learned at an early age that when I start to feel faint, I should immediately kneel and put my head below my body. I don't know if I just learned to handle the situation better than other people, or whether I get more warning or have a natural ability to monitor light-headedness better than other people, or a combination of the two.
But I don't hesitate; if I feel light headed or dizzy, I take action ASAP, even if I'm standing in a tuxedo at the front of a church.
Posted by Kneeko on August 23, 2007, at 1:43:25
In reply to NARDIL is a miracle drug and saved my life, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 15, 2007, at 2:57:47
Yes, Ive had that magic Nardil experience, only it was total Euphoria for a bit, kind of like a Zen state where self-conciousness completely disappears, but without being weird or psychadelic. It stopped working for some reason. Colors were more vivid as opposed to the kind of heavy ash gray with depression. It then worked great without the euphoria, then it pooped out after about 6 months. No other anti-depressants worked at all out of 13.
Retrying it now with 2 augmenting agents Zyprexa and Lithium. Going through extreme bedridden fatigue at 75mgs in the 4th or 5th week, lowered depression maybe 10%, anxiety maybe 20%. Hopefully it works, Parnate sure didn't! Its really the only thing I have faith in short of narcotics
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