Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 773751

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Is this even remotely possible?

Posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

I went to a new pdoc for the first time today. Explained my life-long anxiety, and eleven years of phobia, insomnia, pain and suicidal ideation. I also pointed out the rampant alcoholism and psychiatric problems on my mother's side of the family, and the fact that both my aunt and father committed suicide. He said that the only problem I have is that I think too much, and that if I am to continue to see him I would have to wean off all meds and focus on psycho-therapy. (His bible is "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.) I would love to get off meds and try to get my negative thoughts and emotions under control, but was shocked by the way he treated me just like someone who has a slight case of the jitters. I'm sure he has never gone for days on end without sleep, felt chronic pain and debilitating anxiety, or been close to suicide. He said the benzos are for short-term use only, but offered no real plan for weaning me off clonazepam. I'm supposed to use my mind to overcome everything--panic, insomnia, withdrawal, depression. I don't mind challenges but this sounds like climbing Mt. Everest with no clothes on!

 

Re: Is this even remotely possible? » Guy

Posted by Sigismund on August 3, 2007, at 15:22:16

In reply to Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

>He said that the only problem I have is that I think too much,

I've been told this for years, and they were probably right. But no one has ever suggested how I might stop, apart from the Buddha. Even the maybe excellent Echart Tolle doesn't really tell you how in The Power of Now. It just got too much for him, he sits on a bench, and kazzaam, he just stops. Well, you can imagine what I thought of that....it's not gonna work that way with me.

Anyway, thinking too much can be quite a serious problem. That's one aspect of depersonalisation, for example.

 

dun think so

Posted by Jeroen on August 3, 2007, at 15:50:25

In reply to Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

first of all... ur diagnosiz..

second: reason of suicide (like i am going trough the hardest part of my suckie suckie life right now until i got this)

third: if all has a meaning, the bible does something 4 sure, but finding the right medicine to function in life is much importante


fourth: are you sure this isnt just a psychologist, they dont have authority to prescribe drugs, psychiatrists love this kind of game.. somethimes they save lives, but everyone i know has been drugged for years (but now they can function), and talk negative, even on MSN a chat program


 

Re: dun think so

Posted by linkadge on August 3, 2007, at 16:18:20

In reply to dun think so, posted by Jeroen on August 3, 2007, at 15:50:25

It may not be the best idea to get off all medications, esp if you have a family history of suicidiality.

I would personally just leave this dude. I mean you don't need to pay the same for a therapist.

Linkadge

 

Re: Is this even remotely possible?

Posted by Honore on August 3, 2007, at 17:23:02

In reply to Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

Did he recommend any particular amount of thinking? half a cup? three gallons? cause if he didn't, I wouldn't listen to him.

Honore

PS and, no, IMO, it' s not remotely possible

 

The correct amount of thinking

Posted by Sigismund on August 3, 2007, at 19:20:16

In reply to Re: Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Honore on August 3, 2007, at 17:23:02

is easy enough to determine. That's none at all. Although I've never got the hang of what kind of thinking is permitted and what not. I mean, say you're living in the now, not thinking because you are watching watching watching, which is OK, but what happens when you have to do stuff?

Actually, I don't think Eckart Tolle is that crash hot anyway.

 

i dunno

Posted by med_empowered on August 3, 2007, at 19:40:16

In reply to Re: Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Honore on August 3, 2007, at 17:23:02

I mean, maybe intensive therapy could help. I don't know you--maybe its a good thing? But he didn't offer a tapering plan for these meds? I'd be wary of anyone who presumes to know "exactly"what the problem is..especially if they want to cold-turkey you off benzos. That's scary.

 

Re: Is this even remotely possible? » Guy

Posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2007, at 20:25:52

In reply to Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

Guy run as fast as you can and get a new pdoc that's absolutely ludicous in my opinion only. I believe you should find a different pdoc. How could he deny the suicidal tendancies in your family. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Is this even remotely possible?

Posted by Honore on August 4, 2007, at 13:15:26

In reply to Re: Is this even remotely possible? » Guy, posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2007, at 20:25:52

Perhaps the correct amount is none, but I'm not convinced. I find thinking too amusing to want to give it up. I mean giving it up completely may make you feel better--on the theory that if you ain't got nothin you got nothing to lose--but is it worth the sacrifice?

Sorry to be difficult. I'm in a jaundiced mood.

Honore

 

Re: Is this even remotely possible? » Guy

Posted by Honore on August 4, 2007, at 14:09:24

In reply to Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

But seriously, it's not possible to stop using a med that's extremely useful and even necessary for managing one's emotional states. Even if you wanted to limit the amount you took, it should be a question of what you need, and what helps, versus taking more than you need, or taking it when you could learn to manage the emotions without it. Testing your abilities and limits again.

In terms of thinking less-- if he means thinking more positive thoughts, that could be helped by therapy, if you chose to try therapy. I personally think it can be helpful, under the right circumstances. But as far as stopping thinking altogether-- that's a personal choice and a personal discipline.

Do you want to stop thinking, annihilate consciousness, as the source of misery, etc? Do you want to practice meditation, or whatever practice he proposes to stop thinking? Stopping thinking isn't something one does over night or easily. It's terribly difficult and is the result of training and work over years-- if you seriously chose to follow that path.

As for doing it, now-- or if you don't want to, but are only ordered to do it, by a pdoc-- I don't think that's at all possible, or even desirable.

Honore

 

Re: Is this even remotely possible?

Posted by Sigismund on August 4, 2007, at 18:08:54

In reply to Re: Is this even remotely possible? » Guy, posted by Honore on August 4, 2007, at 14:09:24

Wouldn't you like to be paid well to tell people they think too much?

 

get a better doc

Posted by elanor roosevelt on August 4, 2007, at 23:08:53

In reply to dun think so, posted by Jeroen on August 3, 2007, at 15:50:25

he is being far too dismissive

he likely has an ego that is bigger than his body of knowledge

 

This guy sounds dangerous to your health

Posted by yznhymer on August 5, 2007, at 11:12:08

In reply to Re: Is this even remotely possible? » Guy, posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2007, at 20:25:52

I'm rarely so strident in my advice but go with the consensus here and ditch this guy ASAP. Run, do not walk. Not only does he sound like he won't do you any good but I'd say he sounds like he's going to cause you a lot of grief, and in fairly short order.

I've been seeing medical and mental health professionals to manage life-long depression and anxiety and I can tell you from an extensive experience base that the odds of hitting a really bad one are not that remote. Most of the psychiatrists I've run across have been fairly mediocre. I've been fortunate to hit upon a couple of really good ones and stuck with them as long as was possible. But when I've run across losers in the mental health field, they were losers big time. One social worker I ditched after a few sessions some years later blew up himself and his whole house making bombs in his basement. When I was about 21 or so, the first doctor I summoned up the courage to tell about my major depression dismissed the whole thing with "just quit your job." Less than a year later he was arrested on a hit and run charge. Kaiser fired him. The psychiatrists weren't quite so colorful. The bad ones were either worthless or in one case outwardly hostile to me because, I presume, I was leaving my wife and this raised some issues of her own. At least that's my best guess.

Anyway, everything you've reported about your new pdoc raises red flags. There is no indication that he has any concern or empathy for you as an individual. He seems more wedded to a personal theoretical treatment approach than your particular needs. He gives every indication that he doesn't even hear what you are telling him about your situation and trivializes your experiences. Rest assured you'll only get more of the same.

Furthermore, his proposals make no sense. Most people understand that psychotherapy and meds both produce varying levels of success, but when used together the results are generally even better. Who in their right mind would suggest pulling out the support you receive from medication BEFORE you've resolved whatever issues you may have and show strong signs that you can manage without the meds, especially with the risk factors you report? And how does he know at this point that you're one of the (minority of) people for whom therapy can be a complete cure?

And, by the way, I've been using the same .5mg of klonopin for at least 15 years to help me sleep and get through particularly distressing periods with no ill effects or addiction issues. So my guess is that not only didn't your psychiatrist listen to you during your session with him, he's not listening to the experiences of his other patients either. I'm sure the potential for benzo abuse is real, but again, isn't that a very individual thing, and don't you want your doctor to be treating you (as opposed to a theoretical patient) based on your needs and experiences?

Best of luck to ya. Psychiatrist shopping is not the most enjoyable task, but its better to cut your losses early on and keep looking till you're happy with your choice.
Y

 

Thanks

Posted by Guy on August 5, 2007, at 11:29:52

In reply to Is this even remotely possible?, posted by Guy on August 3, 2007, at 14:50:34

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful advice. Yes, I have to admit that he was very uncaring and dismissive, and super arrogant. When I tried to explain how severe my symptoms are he said: "I don't want to hear about your problems. You obviously haven't been listening to a word I said (about Eckhart Tolle)." I might benefit from psycho-therapy, but I don't want to have anything to do with someone who talks to me like I'm a naughty child. If only he could walk a mile in my shoes he might sing a different tune! By the way, the Remeron I'm taking seems to be helping a lot with my sleep and panic problems. Hope it continues!

 

Re: Thanks » Guy

Posted by Phillipa on August 5, 2007, at 20:51:21

In reply to Thanks, posted by Guy on August 5, 2007, at 11:29:52

Hey Guy that's great!!!!!Love Phillipa

 

Re: Thanks

Posted by simcha on August 8, 2007, at 3:52:43

In reply to Thanks, posted by Guy on August 5, 2007, at 11:29:52

> Thanks everyone for your thoughtful advice. Yes, I have to admit that he was very uncaring and dismissive, and super arrogant. When I tried to explain how severe my symptoms are he said: "I don't want to hear about your problems. You obviously haven't been listening to a word I said (about Eckhart Tolle)." I might benefit from psycho-therapy, but I don't want to have anything to do with someone who talks to me like I'm a naughty child. If only he could walk a mile in my shoes he might sing a different tune! By the way, the Remeron I'm taking seems to be helping a lot with my sleep and panic problems. Hope it continues!

Yeah, I agree with everyone else here. Run, don't walk, away as far as possible.

Eckart Tolle's book is utter nonsense. I was forced to read this book by a counselor and then in a class I took as part of my counseling psychology degree. It regurgitates stuff from many eastern philosophies about living in now, emptiness, no mind, no thought, etc. All of the original eastern philosophies do a much better job of teaching this stuff than Tolle. And those philosophies give you ways to reach the states they promise you that you can reach. Tolle offers no practical methods to get where he thinks you should go.

Now, it sounds like you've found a helpful medication. Find a doctor that recognizes that it's helpful for you and who might suggest more if you need them. See a psychotherapist for the answers on "how much do I need to think?" etc. Interview these therapists well and find one that truly listens to you.

Good luck,
Simcha


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