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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 22:20:36
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil » FredPotter, posted by Quintal on June 14, 2007, at 16:50:59
Thanks Cabergoline sounds fun. At its worst, the sexual thing removes libido as well but the harder one to clear up is anorgasmia. Nardil is just as bad in this regard as any SSRI - worse if anything Fred
Posted by Quintal on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:13
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell and other ongoing issues w Nardil » Quintal, posted by FredPotter on June 14, 2007, at 22:20:36
Cyproheptadine is supposed to help with the anorgasmia (but I suppose you could become heavily sedated on that combo).
> Nardil is just as bad in this regard as any SSRI - worse if anything Fred
I know, that's why it's the only MAOI I haven't taken yet, the SSRIs were bad enough. Paroxetine didn't make it past the first week.
Q
Posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:24
In reply to Nardil Smell (what the pharmacist told me), posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 9:51:35
...anything about the new vs old formulas and I explained this to him. He smelled my pills and say they smelled terrible and then smelled the ones they had in the bottle there and they had almost no smell. So he replaced mine and we will see what happens in the next few weeks although I'm thinking the little absorbant cube in their bottle may prevent the smell or exposure to air might cause the smell to increase.
Tonight I opened the bottle and I can get a sense of the smell starting to return already.
In any event,the Nardil is causing me such difficulties with lethargy and GI flatulence, it is not helping me very much. The afternoon sleepiness has been so extreme, I have to lay down and I usually fall asleep for 2 or 3 hours every afternoon. MY life has come to a complete halt right now and although I am not having suicidality or extreme depressive thoughts, the solmnolence is quickly eroding my faith in this drug.
And I had such high hopes for it as well. I have changed my dosing schedule to reduce the afternoon crash so now I'm taking 45 mg at bedtime and 15 mg in the morning. I'm supposed to try this for 2-3 weeks and see what happens.
All I can see is more life wasted on drug trials, it is very tiresome. No one understands how difficult it is to get your hopes up again and again and see them fail repeatedly.
Is there any hope left for me, I'm not sure anymore after so many years of fighting this demon. Maybe drugs are making me worse and that makes me doubt trying them for so long. I will not be able to fight this for much longer due to all the false hope I have been given for so long. I am reaching that level of despair again...
Stargazer
Posted by brooke484 on June 15, 2007, at 13:07:55
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:24
I'm sorry you are having these side effects. And I'm sorry you feel so down. I can't remember how long you said you've been on Nardil, but maybe you just need to wait a little longer? I almost gave up on Lexapro and then 3 months later it kicked in. It was like a miracle had happened. I'm not experiencing the fatigue that you are. It's the dizziness and lightheadedness that bothers me. It's especially worse after I increase the dose.
I picked up my new bottle of Nardil this morning and asked if they could give me one of those little cubes. I haven't opened my bottle yet to see if they smell. Maybe I'll email Pfizer and ask them why that happens.
I guess I don't really have any advice. I know with me I always feel awful for a week when I increase the dose. Give it a little more time. I just hope you start to feel better soon.
Take care!
Posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:42:08
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil, posted by stargazer2 on June 14, 2007, at 22:50:24
Stargazer I'm not sure how long you've been on Nardil, but I was just like you until it kicked in at 6.5 weeks. I was zombied out and sleeping and my friends and children were telling me to give it up. I was on 90mg then but after it started to work I cut to 75mg then 30mg twice a day. I've had 6 weeks of freedom from depression. I'm active and enthusiastic. I look forward to getting up. I look forward to going to work and to going home. Everything's good. But I wouldn't have believed it at 4 weeks.
What's more the AD effect after 11 weeks has got even better. I've had some weight gain and complete loss of sexual function though. Also, although it's perhaps not dangerous to drink, I've found it makes me sleepy and is not a good combo for me. My advice FWIW is to hold on for another couple of weeks at 60mg/day. Best of luck. Let us all know how it goes.
All the best
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:44:30
In reply to disappointment in Nardil - stargazer, posted by brooke484 on June 15, 2007, at 13:07:55
So what if my Nardil smells like a dead skunk? - it works for me like no other AD. My pharmacist said they do smell but that was likely to be the thinner enteric coating. I don't understand why we're making so much of this smell thing
Posted by brooke484 on June 17, 2007, at 20:34:14
In reply to Nardil smell, posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:44:30
For me, this is the first time a medication has ever had a smell and I guess I was just nervous about it. I thought maybe it went bad. My second batch doesn't have a smell so I don't know what all of this means. But hey, if it works, who cares, right?
brooke
Posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 13:54:38
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil » stargazer2, posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:42:08
Fred,
You said you have experienced depersonalization in the past. Do you still have it, and did the nardil help? Also, did you feel lightheaded a lot of the time, especially after increasing the dose? I've been on 30 mgs for a week and it seems to be getting worse, the lightheadedness. I'm trying to hang in there but it isn't easy when you feel like you could fall over at any minute.
Thanks,
brooke
Posted by stargazer2 on June 18, 2007, at 14:16:04
In reply to disappointment in Nardil - stargazer, posted by brooke484 on June 15, 2007, at 13:07:55
HI Brooke, I too have lightheadedness along with the afternoon fatique and little improvement in my ability to interact and enjoy things. I'm extremely self absorbed and not able to enjoy being with other people no matter how much I should be able to relax and enjoy anyone's company. I always have had difficulty with this but now it seems very prominent and my thoughts are intovertedand focus on my inability to communicate with a forced feeling.
I find it interesting that you persisted beyond two to three months and finally got a good response from Lexapro. I wouldn't have lasted without any response before then, why did you quit after getting a delayed response which was so long in coming?
I've been on Nardil exactly one month. My doc added Abilify last week tohelp with the lethargy, I think.
Stargazer
Posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 15:31:43
In reply to question for Fred, posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 13:54:38
Hi Brooke the depersonalisation has gone. I don't feel light headed on 60mg per day anymore, but I did on 75mg. It once took me 15 minutes to stand up, as I felt I was going to faint each time. I feel a bit dizzy sometimes but I think I get that anyway - a touch of Meniere's perhaps
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 18, 2007, at 18:43:56
In reply to Re: question for Fred » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 15:31:43
I'm on my 11th day on Nardil. My Nardil also smells. I didn't think any of it, since it smelled since I bought it. I figured it's just a different chemical so it must be "different" and hence the smell.
I don't know if this is the same side effect you're experiencing (light headedness) but I seem to lose my equilibrium at times. It feels good though. Somehow, it feels as if it's counteracting that horrible feeling of emotional pain in my stomach. Not sure why I feel so, but it's been a welcome side effect. I guess feeling relaxed is something I hadn't felt in a very looong time.
Posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 20:42:50
In reply to Re: question for Fred » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 15:31:43
So you didn't have it until you got to 75 mgs? I've had it since I started the medication. It got a little better after a week of being on 15 mgs but when I increased to 30 mgs it got bad again. It's not a very pleasant side effect, but it this works in the long run I guess it's all worth it.
Did you have dp before you started Nardil or was it gone long before?
Thanks!
brooke
Posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 20:43:23
In reply to Re: question for Fred, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 18, 2007, at 18:43:56
GI I'm very pleased Nardil is doing you some good. I found in the early weeks I got a buzz from it and a feeling of complete inner stillness and no hand tremor whatsoever. That's when I wasn't falling over things Fred
Posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 20:50:48
In reply to Re: disappointment in Nardil - Brooke, posted by stargazer2 on June 18, 2007, at 14:16:04
I was an idiot. The lexapro worked about 75% and I wanted 100% so I quit taking it. I wish my doctor would have said, "Hmmm, it's working about 75% so why don't we either increase it or add something else?" Well, my doctor wasn't the most knowledgeble so here I am 5 years later still suffering.
I don't think a month is long enough, personally. I know you're having a rough time but stick with it. We can suffer together. :) The only thing that gets me through the day is knowing that the fog could clear some day soon if I can just be patient enough.
hang in there,
brooke
Posted by stargazer2 on June 18, 2007, at 22:35:32
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil » stargazer2, posted by FredPotter on June 17, 2007, at 15:42:08
Fred, HI, I tried to send you a post earlier today and it got lost which is too bad since once you take the time to think the response through it is so frustrating to have it disappear intocyberspace which many of mine do.
Thanks for your encouragement since I have been on Nardil X 1 month and just added Abilify but not sure why since it didn't work w Emsam.I ddi have some luck with amphetamines before taking NArdil and seem to need something else to get me motivated. I'm very discouraged but will hang in there a while longer before quitting it since the MAO's are the only thing that has worked well in the past but that was the earlier version of Nardil, not the post 2003 version which seems very different.
Have you seen the Nardil activism site for those who failed on the newer version of nardil when the older version worked for more than 20 years. Also many had to quit work when they started on the new version or were hospitalized when the med was changed. That happened to me when Marplan was discontinued. Total failure unrelieved with any medication. That is where I feel like I am right now, unable to work or do anything outside the house unless I force myself to go out and it is very difficult due to my inability to think or amke any decsions no matter how simple. I am forgeting to pay bills, can't do basic things around the house, everything is too difficult. I see no good from anything andsee no purpose in living anymore, it has no meaning.
I hope your recommendationto continue the Naridl has a good outcome for me. Are you taking thoughout the day or when do you take it when you were on higher doses? I have no posiitve effect fromit at present. But you didn't either until 6 or 7 weeks, right?
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2007, at 22:44:46
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil/fred, posted by stargazer2 on June 18, 2007, at 22:35:32
Stargazaer when you can would you answer my e-mail to you as I care and am going through the same thing on another med. Love Jan
Posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 23:14:25
In reply to Re: question for Fred, posted by brooke484 on June 18, 2007, at 20:42:50
I had side effects when I was on 45mg, my starting dose but at that dose the drowsiness and faintness wore off. I mostly had depersonalisation/derealisation many years ago when I was a student, but when anxiety and depression hits me I tend to get it. My house seems like it's made of paper like a stage set (I said it was strange)
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 19, 2007, at 1:58:51
In reply to Re: Nardil Smell ,disappointment in Nardil/fred, posted by stargazer2 on June 18, 2007, at 22:35:32
Would you post that link of the site with activism for the new Nardil? I'm very interested in reading about it.
Thanks a lot!
Posted by stargazer2 on June 19, 2007, at 12:55:25
In reply to Re: Question to Stargazer » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 19, 2007, at 1:58:51
It's interesting, it compares the before composition of Nardil (pre 2003) and the after (post 2003) and the difference in the ingredients and how no further testing was required by the FDA although the users claim the medication is a faster dissolving med which reduces the absorption time of the med. Now the doses required are much higher than before so there is something to that theory.
stargazer
Posted by stargazer2 on June 22, 2007, at 16:45:18
In reply to Re: question for Fred » brooke484, posted by FredPotter on June 18, 2007, at 23:14:25
Just started Abilify one week ago, 5 mg, without much effect. Saw my pdoc yesterday, we talked about decreasing the dose of Nardil as I had an improvement at an earlier dose (45 mg) but it was not sustained. So, instead of decreasing the Nardil dose (60 mg) he increased the Abilify dose from 5 mg to 10 mg.
Last few days have had some improvement with motivation. Still have afternoon grogginess improved with switching the majority of the Nardil dose to bedtime(45 mg).
Has anyone here been on Nardil and Abilify? What was the effect? Dosage of both?
My pdoc was concerned with my ankle edema and asked who my GP was. I said some one that looked like a teenager (!)and who spoke a million miles a minute and who I was not comfortable going to for side effect to an unknown medication like Nardil, which I'm sure she would be clueless as to how to work up for ankle edema.
Anyone here with ankle edema have solutions?
Another next step is to get an endocrine workup to see if any abnormalities exist that could give me a treatment resistent depression, that prevents medication from working. Possible cortisol deficiency. Guess when the next appt is for a endo workup with the MD? Next March...so I took an August appt with the nurse practitioner which I guess is better than nothing.
At least I'm getting more information on my physical status than I've ever had before. My neuro workup last year for M.S was negative which put my mind at ease after falling frequently. It was from the Lamictal, which made me lose my balance, mimicking M.S. That was a relief to know M.S. was ruled out and was caused by my meds which gave me similar symptoms to a neurological disorder and both me and my pdoc missed it. And I think I was only on 200 mg Lamictal and he wanted me increase it until the neurologist said the meds were the casue of my balance issues.
I think it is important to know when the side effects of medication are causing more side effects, but many times they are ignored or minimized by the pdoc in order to get to an "effective" dose which may cause you more harm than good. Falling is always a sign that the medication is too high and it was chalked up to clumsiness and the end result was a fall on my face, 2 root canals and an ER visit with a possible broken nose.
Yes, I would say we missed the warning signs of a reaction to medication.
Stargazer, Hanging in there with Nardil trial X 35+ days.
Posted by Phillipa on June 22, 2007, at 21:28:31
In reply to Nardil and Abilify/Endo workup/Nardil 35 days+, posted by stargazer2 on June 22, 2007, at 16:45:18
Stargazer that long already? Can't you get the saliva test and the 8 hour apart blood draw for cortisol from another doc it's easy. Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on June 23, 2007, at 12:32:31
In reply to Re: Nardil and Abilify/Endo workup/Nardil 35 days+ » stargazer2, posted by Phillipa on June 22, 2007, at 21:28:31
Jan, how is it done? Just go to any lab? What if the results are abnormal? Who will write a prescription for meds if indicated? What were your results and when was it done? normal values?
SG
Posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2007, at 20:34:34
In reply to Re: Nardil and Abilify/Endo workup/Nardil 35 days+, posted by stargazer2 on June 23, 2007, at 12:32:31
Stargazer you do need a med but I would think that with all your problems your pdoc could get you a referral within a week or two. Then the endos I saw drew blood in the office. Gee it waw a long time ago. I think then something was injected and another blood draw in less than 8 hours. But I read on the internet that the ideal is one blood draw and another 8 hours later. But I think the saliva test is for 24 hours would think you'd do this at home and then bring it to a lab or a hospital lab or a doc's office. Have you been to any of the endo sites? My husband did I didn't. I will goggle cortisol levels. Send the link to you if successful. Are you any better today? My endo did draw blood twice but only once it was normal. Love Jan
Posted by brooke484 on June 23, 2007, at 20:52:53
In reply to Re: Nardil and Abilify/Endo workup/Nardil 35 days+, posted by stargazer2 on June 23, 2007, at 12:32:31
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Posted by stargazer2 on July 13, 2007, at 20:50:21
In reply to Nardil Smell (what the pharmacist told me), posted by brooke484 on June 14, 2007, at 9:51:35
Update...the Nardil pills I have now have less of a smell than those early ones I had. The difference is I asked for the cannister that goes in the pill bottle to absorb moisture. This has greatly reduced the smell associated with the pills. Hope it can help you with your 'smelly' pills too!
Stargazer
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