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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
I've been on Parnate since April 23 and it's working great (for depression, not so much for social anxiety).
But as I've said in previous postings, the fatigue especially in the afternoons is overwhelming. Just yesterday, I actually fell asleep at a traffic light and a passerby tapped on my window which jolted me.
Obviously it's cause for concern. My question is this: what's the real danger with combining a stimulant with and MAOI like Parnate? My doc has ordered me to stop the Desoxyn which worked wonderfully for the fatigue. (This is before I started the Parnate). I NEVER got tired during the daytime while I was on Desoxyn.
Fortunately, I still have about 40 tabs of the Desoxyn, but have been hesitant to go against his wishes, especially since (according to him) it's dangerous.
But since I have enough to try it out and see whether combining the Parnate and the Desoxyn will cause a problem, I'm very tempted to do that.
And if there are no problems, I can report to him: "See, I've been taking Desoxyn and there haven't been any problems". Hopefully, then he will relax about it.
The only reason, I feel a bit daring in trying this out is that I know that there are several people on the board who are on other stimulants and MAOIS at the same time and there haven't been any problems.
But before I pop the first pill in my mouth, I just wanted to check with people on here who are taking Ritalin, Adderall, etc with an MAOI and if they could tell me what their reaction has been.
My doc doesn't even want me to have more than one cup of coffee. And I have at least 3 or four STRONG cups and there haven't been any problems.
So am I asking for trouble by combining the Parnate with the Desoxyn?
Malcolm
Posted by steel on June 20, 2007, at 16:09:16
In reply to Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
> I've been on Parnate since April 23 and it's working great (for depression, not so much for social anxiety).
>
> But as I've said in previous postings, the fatigue especially in the afternoons is overwhelming. Just yesterday, I actually fell asleep at a traffic light and a passerby tapped on my window which jolted me.
>
> Obviously it's cause for concern. My question is this: what's the real danger with combining a stimulant with and MAOI like Parnate? My doc has ordered me to stop the Desoxyn which worked wonderfully for the fatigue. (This is before I started the Parnate). I NEVER got tired during the daytime while I was on Desoxyn.
>
> Fortunately, I still have about 40 tabs of the Desoxyn, but have been hesitant to go against his wishes, especially since (according to him) it's dangerous.
>
> But since I have enough to try it out and see whether combining the Parnate and the Desoxyn will cause a problem, I'm very tempted to do that.
>
> And if there are no problems, I can report to him: "See, I've been taking Desoxyn and there haven't been any problems". Hopefully, then he will relax about it.
>
> The only reason, I feel a bit daring in trying this out is that I know that there are several people on the board who are on other stimulants and MAOIS at the same time and there haven't been any problems.
>
> But before I pop the first pill in my mouth, I just wanted to check with people on here who are taking Ritalin, Adderall, etc with an MAOI and if they could tell me what their reaction has been.
>
> My doc doesn't even want me to have more than one cup of coffee. And I have at least 3 or four STRONG cups and there haven't been any problems.
>
> So am I asking for trouble by combining the Parnate with the Desoxyn?
>
> MalcolmYeah thankfully i read of a poster once saying how well the synergy of caffiene and parnate went,and i use it often,which actualy works better than when i used actual stims,sometimes the relief is so profound i literaly fall asleep.
And falling asleep directly upon a parnate dose is a great sleep,least for me,i wake up feeling really good as if the depression was keeping me awake and the sec parnate locked on it with caffiene i went bye bye.
As for your current situation,id get data sheets handy as you cant fully trust hospitals,they refused to stop saying on one of my problems that i was ALLERGIC TO PIZZA.
So keep the data handy in a worst case scenerio to provide the ER.
Then simply ask yourself this,do you feel comfortable with parnate,as far as knowing its effects,its onset,its decline,etc.
If you do,my theory is depression is a war,in a war you risk things,all you can do is prepare for the worst and then fight.So fight.Just be careful,good luck i think youl be totaly fine.
Posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 17:02:15
In reply to Re: Combing MAOI's with stimulants » malcolm664, posted by steel on June 20, 2007, at 16:09:16
> > I've been on Parnate since April 23 and it's working great (for depression, not so much for social anxiety).
> >
> > But as I've said in previous postings, the fatigue especially in the afternoons is overwhelming. Just yesterday, I actually fell asleep at a traffic light and a passerby tapped on my window which jolted me.
> >
> > Obviously it's cause for concern. My question is this: what's the real danger with combining a stimulant with and MAOI like Parnate? My doc has ordered me to stop the Desoxyn which worked wonderfully for the fatigue. (This is before I started the Parnate). I NEVER got tired during the daytime while I was on Desoxyn.
> >
> > Fortunately, I still have about 40 tabs of the Desoxyn, but have been hesitant to go against his wishes, especially since (according to him) it's dangerous.
> >
> > But since I have enough to try it out and see whether combining the Parnate and the Desoxyn will cause a problem, I'm very tempted to do that.
> >
> > And if there are no problems, I can report to him: "See, I've been taking Desoxyn and there haven't been any problems". Hopefully, then he will relax about it.
> >
> > The only reason, I feel a bit daring in trying this out is that I know that there are several people on the board who are on other stimulants and MAOIS at the same time and there haven't been any problems.
> >
> > But before I pop the first pill in my mouth, I just wanted to check with people on here who are taking Ritalin, Adderall, etc with an MAOI and if they could tell me what their reaction has been.
> >
> > My doc doesn't even want me to have more than one cup of coffee. And I have at least 3 or four STRONG cups and there haven't been any problems.
> >
> > So am I asking for trouble by combining the Parnate with the Desoxyn?
> >
> > Malcolm
>
> Yeah thankfully i read of a poster once saying how well the synergy of caffiene and parnate went,and i use it often,which actualy works better than when i used actual stims,sometimes the relief is so profound i literaly fall asleep.
>
> And falling asleep directly upon a parnate dose is a great sleep,least for me,i wake up feeling really good as if the depression was keeping me awake and the sec parnate locked on it with caffiene i went bye bye.
>
> As for your current situation,id get data sheets handy as you cant fully trust hospitals,they refused to stop saying on one of my problems that i was ALLERGIC TO PIZZA.
>
> So keep the data handy in a worst case scenerio to provide the ER.
>
> Then simply ask yourself this,do you feel comfortable with parnate,as far as knowing its effects,its onset,its decline,etc.
>
> If you do,my theory is depression is a war,in a war you risk things,all you can do is prepare for the worst and then fight.So fight.Just be careful,good luck i think youl be totaly fine.Yes, I suspect that taking Desoxyn and Parnate together wouldn't be a problem. The only thing is that my doc will flip when I tell him that I've disobeyed a very specific instruction he's given me. I guess my question was more along the lines of: would taking Desoxyn and Parnate be as potentially dangerous as taking Parnate with, say an SSRI or eating one of the prohibited foods (like soy sauce - although there again, I'm sure I've eaten foods containing soy sauce since starting Parnate and haven't had any problems).
The thing is my doc has also told me that the amount of tyramine can vary depending on a slice of cheese (for example), and that all it takes is eating a piece of cheese from an "infected" slice and I'd have to get my *ss to a hospital.
In other words, the amount of tyramine isn't uniformly present even in prohibited foods and it just takes one bad piece or it and you could end up in serious trouble.
I guess that's what I really want to know about combining Desoxyn and Parnate. I suspect that the answer is "no" it wouldn't be a problem, but sounds like there are no guarantees.
The thing is that at some point I will run out of the Desoxyn and will need a refill. It certainly won't help me then if my doc still refuses to prescribe a stimulant.
Malcolm
Posted by OzLand on June 20, 2007, at 20:22:55
In reply to Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
My pdoc wanted to put me on Ritalin with the Parnate right from the start, and I said no as it sort of scared me to think of that kind of combo. I get really tired during the day, though, and so I wonder if I should rethink things. I will ask on Friday when I see him.
By the way I am not ADHD; just depressed. Well, not so depressed right now, and so I just need something to keep me awake during the day.
Posted by Jedi on June 20, 2007, at 21:54:11
In reply to Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
Malcolm,
Please do not combine Desoxyn with Parnate except under the care of an expert psychopharmagologist. Desoxyn is one of the strongest amphetimines. For those who don't know, Desoxyn is the pharmaceutical grade of methamphetamine. The wrong combination of the two medications could be fatal. It took eight weeks for me, but the side effect of daytime somnolence on Parnate did go away.
Be carefull,
Jedi
> I've been on Parnate since April 23 and it's working great (for depression, not so much for social anxiety).
>
> But as I've said in previous postings, the fatigue especially in the afternoons is overwhelming. Just yesterday, I actually fell asleep at a traffic light and a passerby tapped on my window which jolted me.
>
> Obviously it's cause for concern. My question is this: what's the real danger with combining a stimulant with and MAOI like Parnate? My doc has ordered me to stop the Desoxyn which worked wonderfully for the fatigue. (This is before I started the Parnate). I NEVER got tired during the daytime while I was on Desoxyn.
>
> Fortunately, I still have about 40 tabs of the Desoxyn, but have been hesitant to go against his wishes, especially since (according to him) it's dangerous.
>
> But since I have enough to try it out and see whether combining the Parnate and the Desoxyn will cause a problem, I'm very tempted to do that.
>
> And if there are no problems, I can report to him: "See, I've been taking Desoxyn and there haven't been any problems". Hopefully, then he will relax about it.
>
> The only reason, I feel a bit daring in trying this out is that I know that there are several people on the board who are on other stimulants and MAOIS at the same time and there haven't been any problems.
>
> But before I pop the first pill in my mouth, I just wanted to check with people on here who are taking Ritalin, Adderall, etc with an MAOI and if they could tell me what their reaction has been.
>
> My doc doesn't even want me to have more than one cup of coffee. And I have at least 3 or four STRONG cups and there haven't been any problems.
>
> So am I asking for trouble by combining the Parnate with the Desoxyn?
>
> Malcolm
Posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 23:21:17
In reply to Re: Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by Jedi on June 20, 2007, at 21:54:11
Don't worry with your warning I won't; that's the sort of feedback I was looking for from here. So thanks for the heads up!
Having said that, I've been on Adderall, Ritalin, Concerta and haven't noticed that Desoxyn is stronger. But that probably just my subjective opinion. It was years ago that I tried those other drugs but just a few months ago that I was on Desoxyn. On the face of it, it seems like there'd be no problem, but I certainly don't need any more complications in my life that would come with a trip to the hospital
Looks like it's back to coffee for me.
Best-
Malcolm> Malcolm,
> Please do not combine Desoxyn with Parnate except under the care of an expert psychopharmagologist. Desoxyn is one of the strongest amphetimines. For those who don't know, Desoxyn is the pharmaceutical grade of methamphetamine. The wrong combination of the two medications could be fatal. It took eight weeks for me, but the side effect of daytime somnolence on Parnate did go away.
> Be carefull,
> Jedi
>
>
> > I've been on Parnate since April 23 and it's working great (for depression, not so much for social anxiety).
> >
> > But as I've said in previous postings, the fatigue especially in the afternoons is overwhelming. Just yesterday, I actually fell asleep at a traffic light and a passerby tapped on my window which jolted me.
> >
> > Obviously it's cause for concern. My question is this: what's the real danger with combining a stimulant with and MAOI like Parnate? My doc has ordered me to stop the Desoxyn which worked wonderfully for the fatigue. (This is before I started the Parnate). I NEVER got tired during the daytime while I was on Desoxyn.
> >
> > Fortunately, I still have about 40 tabs of the Desoxyn, but have been hesitant to go against his wishes, especially since (according to him) it's dangerous.
> >
> > But since I have enough to try it out and see whether combining the Parnate and the Desoxyn will cause a problem, I'm very tempted to do that.
> >
> > And if there are no problems, I can report to him: "See, I've been taking Desoxyn and there haven't been any problems". Hopefully, then he will relax about it.
> >
> > The only reason, I feel a bit daring in trying this out is that I know that there are several people on the board who are on other stimulants and MAOIS at the same time and there haven't been any problems.
> >
> > But before I pop the first pill in my mouth, I just wanted to check with people on here who are taking Ritalin, Adderall, etc with an MAOI and if they could tell me what their reaction has been.
> >
> > My doc doesn't even want me to have more than one cup of coffee. And I have at least 3 or four STRONG cups and there haven't been any problems.
> >
> > So am I asking for trouble by combining the Parnate with the Desoxyn?
> >
> > Malcolm
>
>
Posted by elanor roosevelt on June 21, 2007, at 0:14:52
In reply to Re: Combing MAOI's with stimulants » Jedi, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 23:21:17
getting through that afternoon slump using coffee is an art
i suggest you cut down on your morning coffee and don't drink any more during the day until about a half hour before the tiredness usually hits and ten power a few cups
Posted by Quintal on June 21, 2007, at 12:10:28
In reply to Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
Desoxyn is different to other stims like Ritalin and Dexedrine in that it's mildly serotonergic. You don't want to combine serotonergic meds with Parnate, although bizarrely one of the metabolites of tranylcypromine at high doses is methamphetamine (and it's these amphetamine metabloties that are rumored to be responsible for some of the spontaneous hypertensive crises that occur with Parnate).
Q
Posted by elleff on June 23, 2007, at 8:34:43
In reply to Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
Dear Malcolm664
Marked daytime sleepiness, usually in the early afternoon, is a well recognised potential side-effect of MAOIs (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=3273886&ordinalpos=26&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum).
I know of someone who has successfully treated this (caused by Parnate) with the addition of Modafinil. I'm afraid I don't know the doses used.
Although the PI cautions against using MAOIs while on Modafinil, a combined regime of Phenelzine and Modafinil was safe in this case report (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/9/1716-a).
regards
Elleff
Posted by Oppycat on June 25, 2007, at 7:15:02
In reply to Combing MAOI's with stimulants, posted by malcolm664 on June 20, 2007, at 13:05:48
> I've been on Parnate since April 23 and it's working great (for depression, not so much for social anxiety).
>
> But as I've said in previous postings, the fatigue especially in the afternoons is overwhelming. Just yesterday, I actually fell asleep at a traffic light and a passerby tapped on my window which jolted me.
>
> Obviously it's cause for concern. My question is this: what's the real danger with combining a stimulant with and MAOI like Parnate? My doc has ordered me to stop the Desoxyn which worked wonderfully for the fatigue. (This is before I started the Parnate). I NEVER got tired during the daytime while I was on Desoxyn.
>
> Fortunately, I still have about 40 tabs of the Desoxyn, but have been hesitant to go against his wishes, especially since (according to him) it's dangerous.
>
> But since I have enough to try it out and see whether combining the Parnate and the Desoxyn will cause a problem, I'm very tempted to do that.
>
> And if there are no problems, I can report to him: "See, I've been taking Desoxyn and there haven't been any problems". Hopefully, then he will relax about it.
>
> The only reason, I feel a bit daring in trying this out is that I know that there are several people on the board who are on other stimulants and MAOIS at the same time and there haven't been any problems.
>
> But before I pop the first pill in my mouth, I just wanted to check with people on here who are taking Ritalin, Adderall, etc with an MAOI and if they could tell me what their reaction has been.
>
> My doc doesn't even want me to have more than one cup of coffee. And I have at least 3 or four STRONG cups and there haven't been any problems.
>
> So am I asking for trouble by combining the Parnate with the Desoxyn?
>
> MalcolmI took Parnate (80mg) with Adderall for several years with no ill effects. I've also taken it with Ritalin and Provigil. I never had any problems even with a fairly high coffee consumption. I've never combined with Desoxyn, however.
Michael
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