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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 8, 2007, at 23:30:40
In another thread somebody mentioned (I believe it was gardenergirl) that you can use a BP monitor for precaution with foods that interact with MAOIs.
I was just wondering how effective that is? Does anyone else use that approach? So you basically try a little bit of a "food to use with caution" and monitor your blood pressure 15 minutes later? But what if a small amount is ok, but a higher amount is not? The BP monitor will tell you once it's too late!
Also, is the BP monitor the same thing (or could be used for the same purpose) as a heart-rate monitor--the one used for cardio/workout purposes? Or is it completely different? Could the heart-rate monitor be used instead or in the same fashion? (I'd rather get a heart-rate monitor, since I work out and it would kill two birds with one stone.)
If anyone has any info on this, I'd appreciate it.
Posted by psychobot5000 on June 9, 2007, at 0:53:01
In reply to Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 8, 2007, at 23:30:40
Well, a heartrate monitor measures the speed of your heart, which is useful in this case but not precisely the same as blood-pressure monitoring. Though as I understand it, MAOi cardiovascular crises involve racing heartrates also, the concern seems to focus on blood-pressure instead, though they're closely related.
I use a BP monitor with my MAOis, but to check and establish blood-pressure in-general, not to test reactions to food. The arguments against would be that there is enough normal variation in blood-pressure, to make it difficult to get useful 'test results,' without some fairly extensive examinations (i.e., good readings done by hand and not a machine, probably on more than one or two occasions) of reactions to tyramine-rich foods to be useful.
In any case, I've read that these crises are unpredictable, too, i.e. a patient gets a blood-pressure crisis from eating a proscribed food she's eaten twenty times before on the medication, with no reaction. So, if that's true, then I suppose the testing might give one a false sense of security.
Just thoughts - I often think MAOi risks are exaggerated, and I've often thought such testing a good idea. But no, I've never done it. I've also never, ever, had a problem with a blood-pressure crisis. But I do think it's a good idea to have a blood-pressure cuff around anyway.
Best,
Psychbot
> In another thread somebody mentioned (I believe it was gardenergirl) that you can use a BP monitor for precaution with foods that interact with MAOIs.
>
> I was just wondering how effective that is? Does anyone else use that approach? So you basically try a little bit of a "food to use with caution" and monitor your blood pressure 15 minutes later? But what if a small amount is ok, but a higher amount is not? The BP monitor will tell you once it's too late!
>
> Also, is the BP monitor the same thing (or could be used for the same purpose) as a heart-rate monitor--the one used for cardio/workout purposes? Or is it completely different? Could the heart-rate monitor be used instead or in the same fashion? (I'd rather get a heart-rate monitor, since I work out and it would kill two birds with one stone.)
>
> If anyone has any info on this, I'd appreciate it.
Posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 1:19:26
In reply to Re: Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs? » girlnterrupted78, posted by psychobot5000 on June 9, 2007, at 0:53:01
A BP monitor is different from a heart-rate monitor. The latter can't be substituted for the former, although BP monitors often give your pulse rate, as well. There are causes of high heart rate that have nothing to do with blood pressure; even if your heart rate went up, you really couldn't know that it was related to eating anything.
One problem with monitoring specific instances of eating foods, in order to establish their effects, is that there's no prescribed period of time, such as 15 minutes, between ingestion of food and a hypertensive episode. So you really would have to take your blood pressure a lot even in the first instance--just to get a general idea of how you react to certain substances.
Secondly, eating certain foods, if you had a reaction, could be additive-- if you ate whatever it was once, in a certain period, you might be okay. But if you ate the same thing every night for five days,-- or several times fairly close together-- you might go over the threshold and set off a reaction.
You can't rely on the reaction to one instance of eating something, say soy sauce-- unless you ate the same amount infrequently. You can have a some comfort level-- in monitoring-- but it's not absolute. So if you had a known amount of soy sauce one time-- and had no reaction, you could probably have that amount occasionally. But you'd have to hold the amount fairly constant, and be careful about frequency.
Honore
Posted by stargazer2 on June 9, 2007, at 8:31:24
In reply to Re: Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs?, posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 1:19:26
Hi, I got one at an auction many years ago and now test my BP from time to time, not so much for monitoring foods per se, but for seeing if Nardil is causing my BP to fall when I feel light headed, but I have used it once when I had an unusual headache I suspected to be related to something I ate and found that my BP was 160/100 which is high for me. It wasn't so high that I needed to go to the ER but I was able to see that it was probably related to something I ate and then I was able to examine that situation to prevent that from occuring again. I think it was a few slices of pizza, could probably get away with one slice, not 3.
So it is very useful for monitoring baseline BP's related to starting up new meds and in the case of MAOI's, monitoring a situation where you suspect foor interactions may be affecting your BP. From once a week monitoring, you can get a good sense of your normal BP and then if you eat something that affects your BP, you will see the difference and be able to know to avoid that food item in the future.
You are a prime candidate for a monitor since you have so many specific concerns about food items you can at least see what your BP may be doing if you suspect a reaction from the way you are feeling. You may not get a throbbing headache, which is a late sign of high BP, you may just sense something doesn't feel right, like dizziness. It's better to be safe and have the ability to monitor something a simple as your BP thus warding off unnecessaary trips to the ER because you are fearing you may be having a hypertensive crisis. The monitor will tell you when you need to go.
My normal BP is in the range of 110/70. If the top number (systolic) went above, say 160 and escpeially if the bottom number was above 100, then that may be reason to go to the ER. If you have Nifedepine (my other post) this may reduce your BP enough, so that a trip to the ER may be unnecessary. Of course, if you are at all unsure of what is going on, a trip to the ER may be indicated anyway.
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2007, at 11:47:34
In reply to Yes, I have one., posted by stargazer2 on June 9, 2007, at 8:31:24
The best kind are the ones you pump up and use a stesescope to listen the monitors says in the drug stores vary too much you can take your BP and two minutes later it is totally different. Have they improved the digital one you buy and take home that is important to get the most accurate. Love Phillipa
Posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 12:45:36
In reply to Re: Yes, I have one., posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2007, at 11:47:34
I should add that I have one from an auction-- and that my blood pressure varies within a small range, but is pretty consistent. Certainly consistent enough to know if I'm having some sort of troublesome reaction to food or a drug.
You should probably take it two or three times, rather than only once, when you check it, though, to see what the average is. Often the first time you take it, it's a little off, but you'll get a reliable sense of it, if you take it several times and see where it is.
Honore
Posted by Quintal on June 9, 2007, at 18:56:08
In reply to Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 8, 2007, at 23:30:40
I bought a blood pressure cuff when I started moclobemide just to see what it was doing to my blood pressure - absolutely nothing as it turned out. I bought mine directly from a medical equipment wholesaler that supplies doctors with their instruments. It's true the self-inflating digital ones aren't as accurate as the blow-up stethoscope ones, but you're not in intensive care so a few mm/hg error either way won't be of any consequence.They're good for getting ballpark estimates and my GP sometimes sends patients home with one to monitor their own blood pressure at different times of the day so she can get a better picture of how it varies.
The cuff came in useful when I started Parnate anyway. It was useful in following the changes in my blood pressure and heart rate after each dose - Parnate had a very pronounced effect on my blood pressure and heart rate. I once had a headache after smoking some marijuana on Parnate and thought I might be having some sort of reaction but the cuff showed my blood pressure was normal. It can be helpful for detecting false alarms, like confusing an ordinary headache with a hypertensive crisis.
Q
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on June 10, 2007, at 2:06:23
In reply to Re: Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs? » girlnterrupted78, posted by Quintal on June 9, 2007, at 18:56:08
> I bought a blood pressure cuff when I started moclobemide just to see what it was doing to my blood pressure - absolutely nothing as it turned out.
Hey! I did that too! I bought a cuff when I started moclobemide, but I got mine from Boots. No! Was it argos? I can't quite remember but anyway. It didn't do anything to my BP either. I quit the moc quite soon after due to some little rash I got, which I suspect was totally unrelated, because I keep getting it now still. Its triggered by sunlight actually, just for a couple of weeks in late spring, when I go outside for extended periods. Then it totally goes, and to be honest, you can hardly see anything, its just the hypochrondriac speaking in me.
How was it on the moc for you anyway?
M
Posted by Jedi on June 10, 2007, at 2:44:43
In reply to Re: Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs? » Quintal, posted by Meri-Tuuli on June 10, 2007, at 2:06:23
Yes, I have a simple self-inflating cuff. My BP does vary quite a bit with it, but it also varies quite a bit when the nurse takes it in the doctor's office.
I really think that anyone taking MAOIs should have one of these simple devices.
Jedi
Posted by gardenergirl on June 11, 2007, at 8:02:07
In reply to Re: Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs?, posted by Jedi on June 10, 2007, at 2:44:43
I have one, too that I bought at a local drugstore. It's fairly consistent, though it reads a teensy bit lower than I get when I go to the doc. But it gives me an idea of what my BP is doing. I use it mainly when I start a new med, eat something that was on the old restriction list but probably doesn't need to be, or if I get a headache after eating or drinking something. It's good to have the reassurance that it's not a hypertensive headache, but rather a run of the mill one.
gg
Posted by Quintal on June 11, 2007, at 12:09:48
In reply to Re: Does anyone here use a BP monitor for MAOIs? » Quintal, posted by Meri-Tuuli on June 10, 2007, at 2:06:23
Good old Argos eh? I bought a tablet cutter and pill box from there, and my grandma was always getting those mobility aid things old people use from there like extending hands, strap-on magnifying glasses and such. I don't suppose they have a branch in Finland?
Moclobemide did nothing apart from giving me a little insomnia during the first week. I took it for six months too so it was probably one of the fairest med trials I've ever done.
Q
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