Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 17:39:06
Been on Benzos for over 25 years, so they are just not working well for me anymore (tolerance). What else can i try? Seroquel? Zyprexa? Or other ideas?
Posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 17:53:30
In reply to Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try?, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 17:39:06
Lyrica might be the nearest thing. You could try tapering off the benzos for a while and probably regain the full effects when you restarted. It may cause more problems (cognitive impairment, sedation, memory loss etc) to keep adding drugs on top of a treatment that no longer works (as often seems to happen) rather than discontinue it properly. It's also possible that the benzos are affecting your mood (assuming you've had problems with depression) and simply withdrawing from them can lead to improved mental functioning and brighter outlook on life. That's been my experience anyway.
What are you trying to medicate with the benzos? I tend to feel antipsychotics are overkill for most cases of depression and anxiety - as well as having substantial health risks that benzos and most antidepressants lack. Have you tried any antidepressants?
Q
Posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 18:09:16
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Jesus is Savior, posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 17:53:30
> What are you trying to medicate with the benzos? I tend to feel antipsychotics are overkill for most cases of depression and anxiety - as well as having substantial health risks that benzos and most antidepressants lack. Have you tried any antidepressants?
Anxiety (GAD). I've tried almost every anti-depressant including the MAOI's. I'm currently taking 45 mgs. of Remeron, and 40 mgs. of Prozac, in addition to 3 mgs. of Klonopin daily.
Posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 18:25:19
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try?, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 18:09:16
Lyrica also has antidepressant properties so if you haven't tried it already that would be the way to go. Since you've tried nearly every antidepressant in the book antipsychotics are a reasonable suggestion. Low dose Zyprexa is the one people seem to use most often for daytime anxiety and it combines particularly well with Prozac with each drug counteracting some of the side effects of the other (i.e. the brand new all-in-one pill Symbyax - but most pdocs like to alter the doses of each drug separately).
Seroquel feels like an elephant tranquillizer dart to most people, so of course that's very good for GAD though it can obviously cause a great deal of impairment for whatever relief it brings.
Some of the others like Risperdal and Abilify can aggravate anxiety and tend to cause restlessness, probably not so good for GAD, but there might be someone here using them for that purpose. I'm not sure about Geodon.
Solian (amisulpride) is another interesting antipsychotic but at low doses it increases dopaminergic transmission and can very good for dysthymia and some types of anxiety. If you've been around these parts for a while you'll probably have heard of it or even tried it?
Q
Posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 20:11:33
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try?, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 18:09:16
Monte we're in the same boat. Put me to sleep but don't relieve anxiety during the day I play pretend and it's not working very well. And after all the years we've been on them how can we just go off them? My old pdoc from years ago said at the time if xanax ever stopped working change benzos which I had to do back to valium but I never got the relaxation I used to. And I'm getting scared. Love Phillipa lyrica hasn't come up in a long time Q will you explain it again to dense people like me. Isn't a low dose supposed to be sedating and a high dose energizing but how to get there. Do you start lyrica and gradually go down on benzos I'm really confused. But glad to see you back.
Posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 20:56:39
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Jesus is Savior, posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 20:11:33
Monte? Is 'Jesus is Savior' the babbler formerly known as CrazyHorse? If so, then he's already tried Lyrica and better qualified to answer your questions than me Phillipa! - I've never taken it. I've read cross-tapering the benzos with Lyrica can ease the process though.
Jesus is Savior, have you tried an opiate? I know some people get annoyed with me for suggesting them too often, but it sounds as though you're pretty treatment resistant.
Also, did you start out with GAD when you were first prescribed benzos? I ask because when you've developed tolerance you enter a state of all-pervading fear that's very similar to GAD/agoraphobia. It seems counterintuitive but people in this situation usually find that they suffer much less anxiety off the benzos than staying on a dose that no longer has therapeutic effect. Maybe it's truer to say they feel more in control of their anxiety than on benzos, and that's a comforting, empowering feeling. Laima had this experience with Klonopin too but she no longer posts here, there should be something in the archives though. As I said before, benzos can darken your mood and aggravate depression more than you realize so there's good reason to think tapering off them might help with that and allow you to feel the full effect of whatever antidepressants you're taking. Was your depression so treatment resistant before taking benzos?
Q
Posted by Lou PIlder on June 6, 2007, at 21:15:49
In reply to Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try?, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 17:39:06
> Been on Benzos for over 25 years, so they are just not working well for me anymore (tolerance). What else can i try? Seroquel? Zyprexa? Or other ideas?
Jesus Is Savior,
You wrote,[...not working...What else can I try?...other ideas?...].
Could you consider something that could {work} that is not a drug?
Lou
Posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 21:27:15
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try?, posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 20:56:39
In March and April 2006, Dr. Ashton gave lectures on Benzodiazepine Dependence and Withdrawal Methods to heath care providers in Victoria and Vancouver, B.C. She also addressed physicians at an addictions conference at Parksville, B.C.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsjhqdE7-6A&mode=related&search=
I'm aware the example she gives here for the rate of benzo withdrawal is ultra-conservative, but bear in mind she's being generous to sensitive souls by educating doctors who might otherwise force their patients onto a taper schedule that's much harsher than they can tolerate. As she says here, the withdrawal may take weeks, months or even years and should be individually tailored to the patient's needs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPQ6Kj5g3QQ&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg7ZP5h3Pw&mode=related&search=
Q
Posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 22:01:09
In reply to Hear Heather Ashton's Talk on Benzo Withdrawal, posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 21:27:15
Quintal but lyrica is approve for nerve pain and for peripheral neuropathy how can it help with anxiety and tapering off benzos? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 22:16:59
In reply to Re: Hear Heather Ashton's Talk on Benzo Withdrawal » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 22:01:09
In crude terms Lyrica works by increasing GABA - the same neurotransmitter system that benzos act on but it does not bind to the benzodiazepine receptor AFAIK. So in theory Lyrica could provide a buffer to the GABA system during withdrawal easing anxiety, while still allowing the benzodiazepine receptors to re-synthesize. Lyrica is licensed for GAD here in the UK and a license for this indication should be following soon in the US.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 22:50:19
In reply to Re: Hear Heather Ashton's Talk on Benzo Withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 22:16:59
Quintal when I google it they don't even mention that?????Love Phillipa
Posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 22:55:48
In reply to Lou's response to Jesus is Savior-LOF » Jesus is Savior, posted by Lou PIlder on June 6, 2007, at 21:15:49
> > Been on Benzos for over 25 years, so they are just not working well for me anymore (tolerance). What else can i try? Seroquel? Zyprexa? Or other ideas?
>
> Jesus Is Savior,
> You wrote,[...not working...What else can I try?...other ideas?...].
> Could you consider something that could {work} that is not a drug?
> Lou
>
Sure could.-MJ
Posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 23:05:26
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try?, posted by Quintal on June 6, 2007, at 20:56:39
> Monte? Is 'Jesus is Savior' the babbler formerly known as CrazyHorse? If so, then he's already tried Lyrica and better qualified to answer your questions than me Phillipa! - I've never taken it. I've read cross-tapering the benzos with Lyrica can ease the process though.
>
> Jesus is Savior, have you tried an opiate? I know some people get annoyed with me for suggesting them too often, but it sounds as though you're pretty treatment resistant.
>
> Also, did you start out with GAD when you were first prescribed benzos? I ask because when you've developed tolerance you enter a state of all-pervading fear that's very similar to GAD/agoraphobia. It seems counterintuitive but people in this situation usually find that they suffer much less anxiety off the benzos than staying on a dose that no longer has therapeutic effect. Maybe it's truer to say they feel more in control of their anxiety than on benzos, and that's a comforting, empowering feeling. Laima had this experience with Klonopin too but she no longer posts here, there should be something in the archives though. As I said before, benzos can darken your mood and aggravate depression more than you realize so there's good reason to think tapering off them might help with that and allow you to feel the full effect of whatever antidepressants you're taking. Was your depression so treatment resistant before taking benzos?
>
> QYea, i started out w/GAD and treatment resistant Depression. I am not agoraphobic. I am wondering if this (new) anxiety i'm feeling may be a side effect from Prozac i started 3 1/2 weeks ago?
As far as Lyrica is concerned, I love it!! Unfortunately i developed tolerance to it after about 4 mos. Lyrica (when it worked) was very powerful and effective for both anxiety and depression.
-MJ (Yes, i'm Monte:)
Posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 23:14:00
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Quintal, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 23:05:26
Monte did you take it for energy or anxiety forget and what dose for me? Love Phillipa
Posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 23:16:46
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Jesus is Savior, posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 23:14:00
> Monte did you take it for energy or anxiety forget and what dose for me? Love Phillipa
I used it more as an antidepressant. My dose was 300mgs. bid. For anxiety 100mgs. tid would/might help.
Love, Monte
Posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 23:19:21
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Phillipa, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 23:16:46
Thank-you my friend. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on June 7, 2007, at 0:03:33
In reply to Re: Hear Heather Ashton's Talk on Benzo Withdrawal » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2007, at 22:50:19
There's plenty of results if you Google 'Lyrica GAD' or 'pregabalin GAD'.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=40404
http://www.bnf.org/bnf/bnf/53/129077.htm
Q
Posted by Quintal on June 7, 2007, at 0:11:24
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Quintal, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 23:05:26
Yeah, Prozac can cause anxiety and agitation as a start-up effect. Did the benzos stop working just 3 1/2 weeks ago? Adding Zyprexa would probably help counter agitation and it works well with Prozac. It's not without considerable drawbacks though - I'm sure you've heard blueberry's story. Sometimes it all seems like swings and roundabouts.
Q
Posted by Abby Cunningham on June 7, 2007, at 8:26:04
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Jesus is Savior, posted by Quintal on June 7, 2007, at 0:11:24
Monte,
I am sorry you've become tolerant to your benzo dose. A couple years ago I did a "Heather Ashton" valium crossover from xanax and thus was able to reduce my xanax from 3mg. to 1.75mg. and it is still working for me. BTW I have been on xanax for 20 some years, doctor fault; sure I am addicted to it unfortunately.I guess we are all different. I switched to the name brand xanax which btw, I would recommend you try name brand benzo and see if that makes a difference - the generic Sandoz was like placebo for me; had withdrawal symptoms, etc. Then after name brand I tried the greenstone brand (subsidiary of Pfizer) and they worked just fine. I can tell after I take one that it is definitely working. Sure I wish I never took a benzo at all but the withdrawal for me was hellish to say the least on the valium. I am doing okay on 1.75mg. xanax per day; just added wellbutrin a couple months ago.
Best wishes Monte,
Abby Cunningham (was Valene)
Posted by Lou PIlder on June 7, 2007, at 21:05:05
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Jesus is Savior-LOF » Lou PIlder, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 22:55:48
> > > Been on Benzos for over 25 years, so they are just not working well for me anymore (tolerance). What else can i try? Seroquel? Zyprexa? Or other ideas?
> >
> > Jesus Is Savior,
> > You wrote,[...not working...What else can I try?...other ideas?...].
> > Could you consider something that could {work} that is not a drug?
> > Lou
> >
> Sure could.
>
> -MJMJ,
You wrote,[...Sure could...].
Then to do so, a plan that goes from long-term use of psychotropic drugs to no drugs can be made.
In a plan, one can make some sort of map and plan ahead to overcome any obstacles. The identification of the obstacles and how they are overcome will greatly help in going from one place to another. The good news is that you have a head start.
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on June 7, 2007, at 22:02:54
In reply to Lou's reply to J_is_S-Frnksnat » Jesus is Savior, posted by Lou PIlder on June 7, 2007, at 21:05:05
> > > > Been on Benzos for over 25 years, so they are just not working well for me anymore (tolerance). What else can i try? Seroquel? Zyprexa? Or other ideas?
> > >
> > > Jesus Is Savior,
> > > You wrote,[...not working...What else can I try?...other ideas?...].
> > > Could you consider something that could {work} that is not a drug?
> > > Lou
> > >
> > Sure could.
> >
> > -MJ
>
> MJ,
> You wrote,[...Sure could...].
> Then to do so, a plan that goes from long-term use of psychotropic drugs to no drugs can be made.
> In a plan, one can make some sort of map and plan ahead to overcome any obstacles. The identification of the obstacles and how they are overcome will greatly help in going from one place to another. The good news is that you have a head start.
> LouMJ,
You have a head start. You wrote,[...what else can I try?..any other ideas?...][...Sure could...].
On our going from long-term use of psychotropic drugs to not using any drugs at all, let's first remember the ant. The ant is moving weights that are greater than the weight of the ant. We may have to do that, but with high hopes, I think you can do it.
Lou
Posted by Jesus is Savior on June 8, 2007, at 18:28:35
In reply to Lou's reply to J_is_S-Frnksnat-hghops, posted by Lou PIlder on June 7, 2007, at 22:02:54
> MJ,
> You have a head start. You wrote,[...what else can I try?..any other ideas?...][...Sure could...].
> On our going from long-term use of psychotropic drugs to not using any drugs at all, let's first remember the ant. The ant is moving weights that are greater than the weight of the ant. We may have to do that, but with high hopes, I think you can do it.
> Lou
>
>
Thank you Lou!-MJ
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2007, at 11:53:35
In reply to Re: Benzos not working for Anxiety...what else to try? » Quintal, posted by Jesus is Savior on June 6, 2007, at 23:05:26
> (Yes, i'm Monte:)
Sorry, but please either go back to your old name (if you need help with your password, please email me) or change your name again as outlined in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#names
Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on July 11, 2007, at 19:52:52
In reply to Re: posting names » Jesus is Savior, posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2007, at 11:53:35
I believe after the hacking incident he could not get back on the site with his old posting name which was not Monte. I think he's on vacation now. Maybe an e-mail to him? Thanks Dr. Bob Love Phillipa
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