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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 11:14:07
I would appreciate any words of advice
on a personal problem i have. My friend
is preparing to drop all drugs. She is
suffering from Major Depression which is
chronic. Every time she dropped her drugs
she became suicidally depressed, with two
suicide attempts which i had to intervene
and alarm her doctors and take her to the ER.This is endogenous depression of the worst kind.
Unfortunately, the drug soups she has taken have all been unbearable, so now she has a plan to drop the major AD and maybe take a Xanax for anxiety, because she has self-diagnosed herself as really having nothing more than anxiety.
She has also declined her doctor's advice to see a hospital therapist, and has gone to a counsellor who "listens" (on the advice of an anti-psychiatry buddy). This counsellor has said that he cannot do anything about her medical condition except perhaps call her dr. if she gets suicidal. This is a private practice. In the meantime the therapy has been a discussion about childhood experiences, etc.
I am ready to have a nervous breakdown myself. I am so afraid i will lose my beloved friend to suicide, due to the stupidity and lack of psychopharmacological intervention. All i get is, you can't make a person do something against their will, stopping a drug after 15 yrs. may or may not be a good thing for depression (this is not what i have read on PubMed; on PubMed you can expect akathisia, neuroleptic syndrome, severe depression and anxiety and cognitive problems).
I am at my wit's end. I cannot convince this person that life problems can only get worst without meds. And there are no big life problems, just drug problems. I don't know what to do. Why isn't anybody worried about this except me?
Please help me with some advice.
Thank you.
Posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2007, at 11:23:15
In reply to Helpless, posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 11:14:07
Unfortunately without her being suicidal there is not much you can do especially since her doc and therapist know what she is planning to do. If she becomes suicidal then they can intervene. Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 11:28:06
In reply to Re: Helpless » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2007, at 11:23:15
> Unfortunately without her being suicidal there is not much you can do especially since her doc and therapist know what she is planning to do. If she becomes suicidal then they can intervene. Love Phillipa
:-(
i hope for a miracle
Posted by greywolf on May 31, 2007, at 11:48:14
In reply to Helpless, posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 11:14:07
You're no good to anyone else if you don't take care of yourself first. You cannot live someone else's life for them. You can only offer the help that is within your power to give.
Accept the limitations on what you can accomplish in this situation. Accept that if circumstances allowed you to do more, you surely would. Support your friend to the extent that it is safe for you, personally, to do so. Enlist the support of others to share the burden if you can; if not, pray that the support you offer is enough to help your friend through any rough patches.
But, whatever happens, never forget that you have a permanent obligation in the first instance to protect yourself from harm. That's the best way to ensure that you can spend a healthy lifetime giving love and support wherever you think it's needed.
Greywolf
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 11:52:28
In reply to Re: Helpless, posted by greywolf on May 31, 2007, at 11:48:14
all it takes is to examine the meds :-(
i don't think i can be happy alone; i'll do what i can and hope for the best; but a practical step seems more sensible, e.g. get the drugs off as an in-patient; the dr. could do that;
thanks anyway;
Posted by Racer on May 31, 2007, at 12:27:27
In reply to Re: Helpless, posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 11:52:28
> all it takes is to examine the meds :-(
>Actually, that's probably not all it takes. Maybe that's all it takes for you -- but you're not talking about you here, you're talking about your friend. It may be that she has different needs.
I gotta agree with GreyWolf -- who's a mighty smart fellow -- that the best you can do is to take care of yourself. That may include distancing yourself somewhat from your friend. Painful as I know that has been for me in the past in similar situations, it was also the only way for me to take care of myself. And taking care of yourself is probably the most effective thing you can do, sad as that is to say.
As for your friend, I've found the semi-Socratic method to be the most effective. Ask her questions, and then really listen to her answers. Don't try to tell her what to do, that just doesn't work well for most people. Ask her what's behind this. Once you have heard her out, you can start asking other questions, like "When you've gone off your meds in the past, how has that worked out for you? Why do you think this might be different? Would you still want to stop your meds if they worked better? &c" The main thing, though, is that you let her talk, and you listen, and just ask for more clarity. It may be that, after thinking about it a little more, and thinking about details, she may modify her ideas.
Another thing that might help -- as long as you just ask gently -- is to remind her of events or details from her other forays into MedicationFreeVille. She probably doesn't remember those events all too clearly -- we don't remember pain accurately, which is what allows us to go on sometimes. I know that I was profoundly depressed earlier this year, worse than I've been in some time. And yet, for all that I remember that it happened, I cannot for the life of me remember anything much about what it was actually like. Your friend probably has a similar blind spot about her own depressive episodes.
Good luck to you, and good luck to your friend.
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 12:33:18
In reply to Re: Helpless » Squiggles, posted by Racer on May 31, 2007, at 12:27:27
Thank you Racer, Greywolf-- it's good advice;
actually, i sometimes just don't know what to
do in these situations. I'm a very impulsive
person.Thanks -- i will try to distance myself, and
listen rather than react -- i have to practice
that:-)Squiggles
Posted by greywolf on May 31, 2007, at 13:09:07
In reply to Re: Helpless » Squiggles, posted by Racer on May 31, 2007, at 12:27:27
Thanks much for the compliment, Racer, though many days I feel like anything but a smart person.
Squiggles, I wish I could give you a more concrete approach to this situation, but it looks like you'll be on the sidelines for a good part of what is to come. I like Racer's "Socratic method" approach, and that may be a way for you to remain usefully engaged while also distancing yourself somewhat.
Greywolf
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 13:13:14
In reply to Re: Helpless » Racer, posted by greywolf on May 31, 2007, at 13:09:07
I don't seem to have much choice.
But this seems all so evasive of medical
evidence to me-- it's not smart.But i appreciate the "detachment" advice--
seem i have to turn into a flat-affectpus for a
while - thank God for lithium:-)Squiggles
Posted by greywolf on May 31, 2007, at 13:16:04
In reply to Re: Helpless, posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 13:13:14
Is that also known as a "flatypus"?
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2007, at 13:29:17
In reply to Re: Helpless » Squiggles, posted by greywolf on May 31, 2007, at 13:16:04
> Is that also known as a "flatypus"?
>
>Lithius Flatypus: (Ceribrorhynchus bipolar) -- biped mammal endemic to Tasmania; also named
'Tasmanian Devil' during seasonal changes due to its fluctuating mood cycles.See 'Platypus', for its early cousin.
This is the end of the thread.
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