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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 6:57:25
A friend of mine who has major depression
(endogenous i think, but she now speculates
reactive) is planning to get of her noxious
meds so as to live a life. I sympathisize with
the side effects and have suggested she see a med doctor, but it always ends up in a fight. Past experiences shows a high risk of suicide when she
has done this, but her dr. says, you can only find out if the results will be good if you try. So, she'll try.I'm really concerned. I've been told that such situations are between the patient and the doctor but what if the doctor is like Dr. Szatz who granted the freedom to get off lithium to one of his patient and the patient committed suicide? If the dr. says it's OK then what is the use of saying it's between her and her dr.? I don't care about good public relations if they lead to death. Oh, and she think i am not bipolar too.
I'm really concerned. What can I do?
Posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 8:47:27
In reply to Mininstry of Mindfreedom, posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 6:57:25
If her med isn't working for her, what's the point of being kept on it. Honestly, I've been on numerous meds and spent time off of them and my times off of them were much better. I wouldn't have said this one year ago, but I think meds should be used only for the SEVERE cases. They are being handed out like candy and, yes, they may work for a year or two, but when they stop working, you're on a drug merry go round that never ends.
Just my thoughts :) I've been withdrawing from Lamictal for over a month and never in my life have I felt so sick. I'm 23!
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 9:07:23
In reply to Re: Mininstry of Mindfreedom, posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 8:47:27
That sounds like a Mindfreedom opinion to me.
I certainly hate psychiatric medications-- they
make for sh*tty quality of life.However, i took a look at PubMed and even
Charles Medawar's site (who is critical of
drugs) and the relapse and suicide rate, not
to mention neuroleptic syndrome is very high,
and higher with each year taken for certain
ADs -- definitely for this one.So, one can look forward to funeral prepations
with some confidence. :-(Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2007, at 10:26:46
In reply to Re: Mininstry of Mindfreedom, posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 8:47:27
CKl I tried lamictal too and just stopped it at 50mg. How high a dose did you take? And I tend to agree with you. Love Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on May 22, 2007, at 16:41:08
In reply to Re: Mininstry of Mindfreedom » CK1, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2007, at 10:26:46
I think a med-free trial is generally a good idea for most people at some point. I think we're beginning to see that meds really aren't all that great, after all--they really do have side effects, and they don't always work so well.
As for suicide...I don't want to sound uncaring, but I do think the individual should have the right to decide to live or die. I don't think being suicidal indicates mental illness, nor do I think prevention of suicide is necessarily a worthwhile goal.
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 16:43:19
In reply to Re: Mininstry of Mindfreedom, posted by med_empowered on May 22, 2007, at 16:41:08
Go away.
Squiggles
Posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 18:51:39
In reply to Re: Mininstry of Mindfreedom, posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 9:07:23
I was only on 25mg which is the crazy thing! The day after I stopped I became dizzy, lightheaded, nauseated, flu-like feeling, exhausted, etc. Doctor says the "sickness" may be depression but I've been midly depressed before and depression isn't like this...I just feel sad and sleep more when I'm depressed...I don't have physical ailments.
I have had two instances of bad drug side effects. When I took Nardil, my lips became stiff (WIERD - I KNOW) and I had a twitch and it took 3 months for that to go away. When I took Zoloft, I developed a severe pain above my right eye that also took 3-4 months to go away so I just think my system isn't good at expelling drugs. It may take another 3 months to get over this.
Guys, I'm not anti-drugs. I think they are needed in some cases. But, in my personal experience, I think they have ruined my health (physical health AND mental health). When on the drugs, I have more physical complaints than mental and, when the drugs worked, they only worked for 6 months to one year.
If you're original problem wasn't that bad (a little anxiety or depression), I think we all should consider if we need these meds. People actually beat anxiety through other avenues and I'm going that route.
I'm just praying this nausea and dizziness goes away!
Just my thoughts guys..take it or leave it :)
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 20:16:08
In reply to Re: Mininstry of Mindfreedom, posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 18:51:39
I can't argue with that. Sometimes the drugs you are given are inappropriate for your condition.
As for the withdrawals you describe, the time is significant both for intensity and duration.What I wish to emphasize is that "rebound", which the critical psychiatry camp makes so much mileage out of in their anti-psychiatric drug crusade, is not the major thing to fear, imho.
While it is true that the initial condition such as depression, and the actual withdrawal effects upon discontinuation can be confused by doctors, that is not the greatest danger. Though it is true that it can complicate the clinical picture by encouraging the administration of further drugs.
In my view, the greatest danger is the possible changes in the brain that take place after taking a drug for a very long time and then stopping (no matter how slow). The time and dose, the type, and speed of reduction are all factors, but the one that changes the brain neurochemistry the most is, i would guess how long you have take the drug. Dr. Ashton speaks of this for example as "protracted withdrawal syndrome".
And the tragedy of this is, that if you develop TD during withdrawal, you may never come back to the initial 'drugged' state, never mind pre-drug state, not for decades. I think you can study this on PubMed, but popular wisdom has it that long-term alcoholics, and cocaine users, for example, never recover if they have been users for a very long time.
Correct me if i am wrong in this.
Squiggles
Posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 21:14:44
In reply to Re: Ministry of Mindfreedom, posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 20:16:08
Wow! This is pretty scary!!! I know about TD and the fact that it can be permanent. I don't believe what I am going through will be permanent like TD, but am scared it may go on for up to 3 months (Protracted Withdrawel). When going through sh*t like this, it's hard to see an end and then I always start saying, "What if this sickness is permanent?"
Just need reassurance right now that withdrawel does end. I take it that most people that endure months of Effexor withdrawel end up getting through it and all the symptoms resolve after a few months?
Anyhow, would love some positive posts. I appreciate your posts, Squiggles, but it seems to point that whatever I have could be permanent -- basically, I'm screwed!!! :)
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2007, at 22:11:27
In reply to Re: Ministry of Mindfreedom, posted by CK1 on May 22, 2007, at 21:14:44
CKl you will be fine you haven't taken heavy or large doses of meds for decades just let your pdoc know what's going on and then get into some CBT or other theraphy. You do still have my e-mail? Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2007, at 8:10:24
In reply to Re: Ministry of Mindfreedom » CK1, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2007, at 22:11:27
I can't find many medical references to
this subject. Most of them are related
to alcohol, sedatives, and street drugs.
But I think that is just a lack of evidence
as all psychiatric drugs effect the brain. Interestingly, i found some good articles on nicotine as well.In this present pool of knowledge, i can see
why a doctor would say there is not enough knowledge to predict how you would react upon
withdrawal, except for testimonials.In my personal experience, i am pretty certain
that time and dose were the most important variables. And that is for a drug i recognized as having these effects. As I have described in other posts i was never successful in withdrawing from clonazepam.I would be happy to see a comparative study
of medications on the effect of taking away the drug. The *gradual* withdrawal may make the shock less, but does that leave time for regeneration of neurons or receptors, or is there a prolonged effect that either takes longer or never reverses the biological state changed by the drug?This is not to scare anyone, as a short time (and by that of course i don't mean a decade or even 5 years) is likely to be an easy window for discontinuing a drug. Also, a dr. can prescribe other drugs to cover the unease of withdrawal. More accurate studies on this would be nice.
But my basic point, is that once you are on
a drug for a long time, you are on it for good reason and in the absence of a similar substitute, must stay on it.Squiggles
This is the end of the thread.
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