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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by ace on May 7, 2007, at 3:24:23
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? ACE!!!, posted by natedog539 on May 6, 2007, at 22:35:00
Posted by natedog539 on May 7, 2007, at 9:52:19
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys! (nm), posted by ace on May 7, 2007, at 3:24:23
?
Posted by zcus on May 7, 2007, at 14:07:31
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys!, posted by natedog539 on May 7, 2007, at 9:52:19
> ?
Hi all - I'm new here and Have been on Nardil (Phizer) 75mg for about 6 months and at first it was amazing the effect it had on me - I thought i was cured... but there is definitly something funny with the consistency of these drugs??? They seem to very from refill to refill and the sexual side affects are really bad - I've stopped them now cold turkey for 5 weeks and it is complete hell!!!!
I am wanting to try parnate because the nardil at that dose killed any motovation I had - could not even get out of bed somedays - I hear parnate is more uplifting and has a stimulating effect - this is my last hope....
Posted by FredPotter on May 7, 2007, at 18:16:43
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? ACE!!!, posted by natedog539 on May 6, 2007, at 22:35:00
I've been 7 weeks first at 45mg now at 60mg. The sexual function is returning and I'm starting to lose the weight I put on. But I still get giddy. I'm left with one main side effect. Insomnia. I wake at 2am and that's it
fred
Posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:08:52
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys!, posted by natedog539 on May 7, 2007, at 9:52:19
> ?
Sorry!
i ment to wright a message that I couldn't answer on the day i said I was!!!
Answering today!!!
Luv
Ace, a crazy Nardil freak!
Posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:10:16
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!!, posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2007, at 10:47:05
> Wow Ace you come and go. So many threads on Nardil. Love Phillipa
Phillipa! how are you!!!Yep, I will always be on this site....!
Until it closes down, which I hope it never does!
Peace
Ace
Posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:17:02
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! 03 natedog539 ace, posted by FredPotter on May 2, 2007, at 4:30:16
> Hi Ace I ramped up my Nardil dose to 90 too quickly. Light-headed, loss of balance, stumbling over things. Sleeping all day. But I've gone back to 60mg. Ken Willman says that once the MAO has been taken out of commission, it takes ages to build it back up again, so once achieving your effective dose you can pull it right back to even 15 mg/day. makes sense I think
> FredHey Fred!
Well, in retrospect, I did the same thing when i started Nardil, and my symptoms sound exactly the same! I loved the sleeping but....!!! The sedation was so great after having years of being so very anxious and on edge.
I do not agree with the 15mg/day or every second day 'philosophy' on nardil.
I have not experieneced this myself, nor seen any anecdotal or clinical data which supports this claim.
I know it is in all the monographys just about, but I disagree with it.
60mg is usually a good dose, but you may need 90mg.
Hard to tell.
Once you achieve the feelings u desire (i.e. happiness, less anxiety), please please saty on that dose, at least for some time.
Cheers again!
Ace
Posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:37:51
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? ACE!!!, posted by natedog539 on May 6, 2007, at 22:35:00
> Yo Ace,
> I got the RX for Nardil and I am totally pumped.So you should be mate! Keep that positive mindset. For some reason, I always knew deep down Nardil was going to be a gem for me...I don't know whay, but I always knew it inside!
He told me to take 1 pill for 2 days, then up it to 2 pills for 2 days, then 3 pills (45 mg) till i see him again in 2 weeks.
That sounds OK! BUT, watch for s/effects. Try your best to live with them for a while if tolerable.
He says he knows that Nardil can be used all the way up to 90 mg.Actually I't can be used up to 105mg, and even beyond. I believe I once was on 135mg Nardil. I have heard of one individual being on 200+ mg Nardil. This is not advisible but.
I am truly blessed to have such an awesome doctor!!!Well he is, he is going the Nardil path!!!!!!!
Now a few questions. I am sorry for asking so many.
No need to apologize. You have every right to ask anything you want (except my sex life, ha ha!)
> 1. When should I take the pills ( all at once or space it out or.......?)
I PERSONALLY would space it out, at least for the moment.
> 2. Should I expect anything good at 45 mg?You may feel very good at 35mg. BUT, you may need 60-90mg. In my view, and I have studied a LOT about Nardil, the VAST majority of patients need between 60-90mg
> 3. What kind of Nardil do you have ( got the Pfizer kind orange) Heard there are issues with it..
Ignore the issues. Mine are orange, they come from Link. Link told me unequivocally that the Nardil, that is now being manafactured, is the same as the old one. basically it is the old one. Don't worry aboiut this unless you dont respond after long trial at various doses.
> 4. I really hope this will work, b/c this is truly my last option for medsI feel strongly that it will! Just be PATIENT and watch DOSAGE!
Have FAITH, and never apologize for asking for anything and believe in yourself and God (if you have one)....
cheeeeeeeeeers!
Ace.
Posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:52:01
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys!, posted by zcus on May 7, 2007, at 14:07:31
> > ?
> Hi all -
Hi friend, I believe this message is directed to all Nardil users?
I'm new here and Have been on Nardil (Phizer) 75mg for about 6 months and at first it was amazing the effect it had on me - I thought i was cured... but there is definitly something funny with the consistency of these drugs???
What happened? did you change the dose in any way???
They seem to very from refill to refill and the sexual side affects are really badSexual s/effects can be bad! ALTHOUGH their is meds you can use to combat these. In VAST VAST majority of cases these s/effects do go...however it can take time. It took a couple years or so for myself I believe. I truly prefered Nardil over sex, so I wasn't that annoyed.
- I've stopped them now cold turkey for 5 weeks and it is complete hell!!!!
NEVER stop cold turkey on any drug!!!! not a good idea at all!
>
> I am wanting to try parnatePersonally I would re-commence Nardil and monitor response you have at each single dose.
because the nardil at that dose killed any motovation I had - could not even get out of bed somedays -
Are you saying Nardil caused you a paradoxical depression? After initially helping you?
I hear parnate is more uplifting and has a stimulating effect - this is my last hope....I strongly feel you still have hope with Nardil. Parnate is known to be more stimulating, but it varies so much from individual to individual.
Try best as you can to 'keep the faith'!
Ace
Posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:53:45
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? ACE!!!, posted by FredPotter on May 7, 2007, at 18:16:43
> I've been 7 weeks first at 45mg now at 60mg. The sexual function is returning and I'm starting to lose the weight I put on. But I still get giddy. I'm left with one main side effect. Insomnia. I wake at 2am and that's it
> fredHey Fred?
Have you got a question? do you want me to answer to your statements?
cheers!!!!!!
Ace
Posted by zcus on May 8, 2007, at 6:32:29
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys! zcus, posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:52:01
To: ACE and regarding Nardil
Im not saying Nardil caused a relapse into depression but the inconsistency of the drug got me - When I first started and reached a dose of 60mg a day I was on top of the world - I even told my doctor that I was almost feeling HIGH - like I was doing coke or something and felt almost guilty... But this feeling only lasted about 3 to 4 weeks and began to go down hill weekly - it seemed to coincide with my second refill of Nardil (hence inconsistency) I did seem to come in and out of depression the whole time I was on Nardil - but in the end I just gave up.
There is too much data on the web that supports that this drug has consistency problems to deny it... here is just one link:
<A href="http://www.stratguitar.com/nmember/nardil.php" target=_blank>nardil problems</A>I am only considering Parnate because I seem to respond to drugs with stimulating properties - I was on Wellbutrin for 3+ years and it was the best I ever felt - but I wasn't as Social Phobic back then as I am now... So I'm at a lose as to wich drug to take - to tell you the truth - I don't feel that different without the Nardil.
I thank you for your help ACE - I have a doctors appoinment tomorrow (wenesday) and really don't know what to tell him, or how I feel...
Posted by FredPotter on May 8, 2007, at 15:30:37
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! 03 natedog539 FredPotter, posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:17:02
Thanks Ace I've read that a rough guide is 1mg/kg body weight (strewth! that means 95mg). This week (on 60mg now 75) the sleeping and tiredness was replaced with insomnia. But this seems to have signalled the start of feeling better, with lots of energy, getting to work on time! It was mixed up with some depersonalization crap which is terrible, but only lasted a short while after waking (at 2am). Did you read the post by "timidly"? regards Fred
Posted by ace on May 9, 2007, at 3:04:07
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys!, posted by zcus on May 8, 2007, at 6:32:29
> There is too much data on the web that supports that this drug has consistency problems to deny it... here is just one link:
> http://www.stratguitar.com/nmember/nardil.php" target=_blank>nardil problemsHi friend,
Nardil usually does NOT have consistency problems.
With some people, after many years sometimes, they feel the drug 'poops out'. I believe the drug is stilling doing the job, it's just that the individual has been 'leveled' at his/her sense of well being for so long that, i't like, 'Now what, I want more'. That sort of thing.I saw the link you sent me and have seen other anecdotes on this issue. However I have seen two, maybe three CLINICAL articles which allude to Nardil having consistency problems.
With your situation, I think you have yet to achieve the proper amount of the chemical in your blood stream.....you had an initial 'high' and some cycling.
This strongly suggests that does adjustment is necessary and I feel strongly that you WILL find a dose where you can retain that 'high' or, a sense of well-being.
I wouldn't give up on this beast of a carbon compound we call Nardil yet!!!!
Try to stay positve!
Ace.
Posted by ace on May 9, 2007, at 3:12:29
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? natedog539 ?ace, posted by FredPotter on May 8, 2007, at 15:30:37
> Thanks Ace I've read that a rough guide is 1mg/kg body weight (strewth! that means 95mg). This week (on 60mg now 75) the sleeping and tiredness was replaced with insomnia. But this seems to have signalled the start of feeling better, with lots of energy, getting to work on time! It was mixed up with some depersonalization crap which is terrible, but only lasted a short while after waking (at 2am). Did you read the post by "timidly"? regards Fred
Fred, will get to this tommoz mate. I gotta stop this crazy schedule soon!
No, didn't read that post, can you get me a link to it....
Peace!
Ace:)
Posted by natedog539 on May 9, 2007, at 13:51:50
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? natedog539 FredPotter, posted by ace on May 9, 2007, at 3:12:29
Ace thanks for the input. Your advice will be greatly appreciated during this time, while i try out Nardil.
Posted by FredPotter on May 9, 2007, at 15:17:19
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? ACE!!! FredPotter, posted by ace on May 8, 2007, at 0:53:45
Posted by FredPotter on May 9, 2007, at 15:24:01
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys! zcus, posted by ace on May 9, 2007, at 3:04:07
Anything that increases the availability of a neurotransmitter can poop out. There's more neurotransmitter around so the receptors in the receiving neuron downregulate. The question is: can you reach saturation point where no more downregulation is possible? Presumably the receptors would never switch off completely or we'd die. This line of reasoning would suggest increasing the dose until poop out is no longer possible.
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on May 9, 2007, at 15:36:06
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! ?? natedog539 FredPotter, posted by ace on May 9, 2007, at 3:12:29
quote: I have been on Nardil for 35 years and have experienced "poop out" every 9 to 12 years. Restarting it after 2+ months off it restored full effectivity for me.
Posted by football on May 11, 2007, at 16:59:59
In reply to Re: Please don't kill me guys!, posted by zcus on May 8, 2007, at 6:32:29
75 MG wiped out my depression and helped moderately with my anxiety.
Would going up to 90 help my anxiety more?
Posted by natedog539 on May 12, 2007, at 2:06:30
In reply to Yo Ace., posted by football on May 11, 2007, at 16:59:59
I always hear about you talking about how Nardil has helped your anxiety (especially social). I think I have even seen it on another board, so I do not see why you are asking ace if you have already reaped the benefits. Is it just not helping anymore..... http://www.psychforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18509&sid=02716ea8ed252f779a3fbf543d273fe7 (is that your post from another board?)
Posted by kaleidoscope on May 12, 2007, at 17:05:11
In reply to Yo Ace., posted by football on May 11, 2007, at 16:59:59
>75 MG wiped out my depression and helped moderately with my anxiety.
Would going up to 90 help my anxiety more?No one can tell you the answer I'm afraid, you'll have to try it and see.
Posted by unlaced on May 21, 2007, at 13:31:15
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! 03 natedog539, posted by ace on April 30, 2007, at 23:49:47
what messures are there to combat weight gain and edema from the use of nardil????
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 18, 2007, at 18:08:18
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! 03 natedog539, posted by unlaced on May 21, 2007, at 13:31:15
> what messures are there to combat weight gain and edema from the use of nardil????
I dont know about Edema.. But jou can combat the weight by eating healthier and doing some weight lifting and especially cardio 30 mins 3-4 times a wee. If I do Cardio 5 days a week for an hour each I will loose a pound a week if I eat clean, lots of protein and greens, follow a good diet, no fatty and carb filled meals.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 18, 2007, at 18:08:39
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! 03 natedog539, posted by unlaced on May 21, 2007, at 13:31:15
> what messures are there to combat weight gain and edema from the use of nardil????
I dont know about Edema.. But jou can combat the weight by eating healthier and doing some weight lifting and especially cardio 30 mins 3-4 times a wee. If I do Cardio 5 days a week for an hour each I will loose a pound a week if I eat clean, lots of protein and greens, follow a good diet, no fatty and carb filled meals.
Posted by stargazer2 on November 21, 2007, at 16:22:33
In reply to Re: Nardil Champion cruising back here!! 03 natedog539, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 18, 2007, at 18:08:39
You can't do much about the edema. It's not really related to excess salt intake but to Nardil specifically. I had it for about a week or two and it did just resolve onits own, thankfully. Those thick ankles are really not very attractive but if it helps depression it may be worth wearing slacks 24/7. I think for most people it goes away and it was not dose dependant for me.
Stargazer
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