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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tony P on May 9, 2007, at 10:56:58
A friend who had suffered from depression recently told me that the only med that worked for her was "Mogaden" - sp uncertain and she may have remembered the name wrong. She said it was an older A/D, out of fashion, but it worked for her.
The only Mogaden I can find on the web is a benzo, nitrazepam - Im not sure it's still available in N/A.
Does anyone recall an older A/D (tricyclic or MAOI I would guess) with a name at all similar to Mogaden?
Tony P
Posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 11:43:57
In reply to ID: Mogaden?? A/D??, posted by Tony P on May 9, 2007, at 10:56:58
The first thing that came into my mind was Mogadon, the old brand name for the sleeping pill nitrazepam, and it is still available. I can't think of any other drug with a name like that bar modafinil - Provigil, but that isn't very likely is it?
Posted by Phillipa on May 9, 2007, at 12:04:19
In reply to Re: ID: Mogaden?? A/D?? » Tony P, posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 11:43:57
Was it ever in the States? None of the name ring a bell with me. So another benzo type med compare with seconal oh that's a barbituate right? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 19:28:54
In reply to Re: ID: Mogaden?? A/D?? » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on May 9, 2007, at 12:04:19
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it would have been (and still is) available in the US. It could be sold under a variety of different brand names though. I took it briefly one time when I had cellulitis. The 5mg tablets were huge, like horse pills, and I kept falling out of bed every morning for some reason. Maybe it hadn't worn off with the long half-life?
Q
Posted by cactus on May 9, 2007, at 19:39:29
In reply to ID: Mogaden?? A/D??, posted by Tony P on May 9, 2007, at 10:56:58
........is a benzo and it's the best sleeping pill I have ever used. It's a powerful hypnotic that is fantastic for insomnia and anxiety. It gives you a great nights sleep and covers you for anxiety the next day. It's half life is around 30 hours if I remember correctly. It is not available in the US though. I suffer from terrible insomnia at times and it's the ONLY thing that works but it is very had to get a script because it is closely related to flunitrazepam(rohypnol). It is not an AD. It is also used for epilepsy in infants and children in liquid form. I hope that was helpful to you.
Posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 20:00:39
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » Tony P, posted by cactus on May 9, 2007, at 19:39:29
How peculiar it's not marketed in the US? I assumed all popular benzos available in the UK would have been available in the US at some point for obvious reasons. I never had any particular trouble getting a script for nitrazepam in the UK though, there were no parallels drawn between that and Rohypnol since nitrazepam is so much weaker. According to Ashton's chart flunitrazepam is ten times more potent than nitrazepam, which is the same potency as Valium/diazepam. Half lives are:
Nitrazepam 15-38h
Flunitrazepam 18-200hQ
Posted by cactus on May 9, 2007, at 20:49:48
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » cactus, posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 20:00:39
> How peculiar it's not marketed in the US? I assumed all popular benzos available in the UK would have been available in the US at some point for obvious reasons. I never had any particular trouble getting a script for nitrazepam in the UK though, there were no parallels drawn between that and Rohypnol since nitrazepam is so much weaker. According to Ashton's chart flunitrazepam is ten times more potent than nitrazepam, which is the same potency as Valium/diazepam. Half lives are:
>
> Nitrazepam 15-38h
> Flunitrazepam 18-200h
>
> QThanks for that extra info, I'm just so glad I can get it in Australia but I have to admit I find it much, much stronger than valium even though 5mg of Mogadon and Valium are considered equal. Rohypnol is still prescribed here too but it's impossible to get. I tried to find info about mogadon on nearly all the US medical sites. Particularly for drug interaction but it's not listed anywhere because it's not available. I have used it on and off for years and it's a hands down winner in the sleep dept. Nothing else has ever come close except for seroquel but that was just horrible for next day sedation to the point where I couldn't function at all.
Posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 21:15:40
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by cactus on May 9, 2007, at 20:49:48
Oh I don't doubt it's unavailable in the US as you say, I'm just surprised US drug companies missed an opportunity to make money. It had a different effect on me to diazepam too, more amnesic I think (though I don't remember clearly). Do you think the association between nitrazepam and flunitrazepam is really justified in Australia? Is it just an Aussie thing? I've also taken Rohypnol illegally and found it surprisingly weak for a drug with such a fearsome reputation.
Q
Posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:41:53
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » cactus, posted by Quintal on May 9, 2007, at 21:15:40
Hi Quintal
I have also have just started taking flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) ,in the last week. This was my first time on it and I also thought "at last a decent nights sleep", as you say because of its reputation. It really is no different from any other and I would say some are better (if someone spiked my drink with it they would be wasting their time and money, I seem to be able to handle an awful lot, I dont even believe it is all tolerance I think because I am bipolar and often very wound up I need something very strong, plus it is an awful thing to do to). I have taken every benzodiazepine there is now with the expection of flurazpman (Dalmane/Dalmadorm), and lorprazolam (I dont recall its propritory name, it did have one at some point). Does anybody know how well Dalmane (Its US name), works as I note people complain of a bad taste sensation for days after using it which is why I never take zopiclone (eszoplicone or Lunesta in the US).
All advice appreaciated
Thanks
James
Posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:55:58
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:41:53
I should have added nitrazepam are big tablets and difficult to swallow, a look at the wiki should give you a list of its various brand names. It and temazepam are the main stay of insomnia treament here in the UK (if you get a benzo), as they are very cheap for the NHS to buy. I beleive Zopiclone is also liked (the mixuture of the two "handed" versions of Lunesta), I prefer Zolpidem (Ambien), myself and have never tried Zaleplon (Sonata), as it does not seem worth the effort because of its short half life.
James
Posted by Tony P on May 10, 2007, at 13:19:25
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:55:58
My pdoc days it's just one of those products that the Europeans like (almost like medication "fashions") and for some reason North American doctors & drug companies aren't interested in. Another excellent example is the AD tianeptine (Stablon) which I was on for a while - nobody on this side of the pond has heard of it, it's not even scheduled as an Rx drug in Canada - but I could get it shipped from Britain or France.
Nitrazepam IS available in Canada, I asked my pharmacist, but my pdoc says it's not a good choice for me as I have a high tolerance to benzos -- so we're increasing my trazadone instead.
Posted by kaleidoscope on May 10, 2007, at 17:08:57
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:41:53
>flunitrazepam
In terms of its sedative effects, it's 'just another benzo'.....
Posted by cactus on May 11, 2007, at 1:52:41
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » James_glasgow, posted by kaleidoscope on May 10, 2007, at 17:08:57
> >flunitrazepam
>
> In terms of its sedative effects, it's 'just another benzo'.....
>
>I agree with that statement too. If you're not use to benzos then quite a few of them will have a very similar effect. It might take more pills but if I too had my drink spiked with rohypnol, I'd be fine, sedated mind you, but fine. Hypnotics of any kind can cause blackouts to people who aren't use to them.
Mind you I think that drink spiking is a diabolical act and nobody should ever be subjected to such a heinous CRIME.
Posted by James_glasgow on May 11, 2007, at 9:12:33
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » kaleidoscope, posted by cactus on May 11, 2007, at 1:52:41
Hi Ed,
Indeed it is, I dont know why I took in any of the "media hype" surrounding the compound, I should know better.
Have some quetiapine 25mg tablets and with the flunitrazepam I can get a nights sleep.
I have a 3 month supply of Rohypnol, have the option of going back to oral midazolam at 7.5mg or 15mg at night. It worked well but tolerance developed quickly.
I have also tried Chlormethiazole (Heminevrin), and although the nasal and eye symptoms are pretty nasty they do get better over a few days. It has this effect of more like a knock out drop than a regular hypnotics. You get the feeling one minute you are awake and then asleep.
I told my Consultant what I was doing and he told me if it works keep it up, rather dodgy advice (I think he should have taken out his pad of scripts and written me one for something from the BNF) but it does work. At that point I was taking OTC promethazine, Dormicum 15mg (midazolam), and Stilnot CR 12.5mg and that did the trick, but I think the real problem lies in that I am not being treated properly for agitation from depression, anxiety, mania, and mixed episodes.
I am waiting to see a new Consultant who will hopefully have some better ideas.
James
Posted by kaleidoscope on May 11, 2007, at 14:47:35
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 11, 2007, at 9:12:33
Hi J
>Indeed it is, I dont know why I took in any of the "media hype" surrounding the compound, I should know better.
Few drugs have attracted such ludicrously excessive amounts of hysteria. Clearly, drug-assisted rape is a very serious crime, but flunitrazepam is not particularly unique, many other drugs could be used for the same effect.
>midazolam at 7.5mg or 15mg at night
How do you find midazolam?
Posted by James_glasgow on May 11, 2007, at 21:07:05
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » James_glasgow, posted by kaleidoscope on May 11, 2007, at 14:47:35
Hi Ed,
Oral midazolam does have quite a kick to it, you get to sleep quickly but I only found I stayed asleep for 4 hours, so I usually had to take it twice sometimes. I also managed to break two toes when i got up one night use the toilet and kicked a door frame, so the ataxia is strong too, but I do remember doing it so not much amnesia. My Consultant Psychiatrist did not have a clue about them, and he though the dose very high (his wife is an anaethestist), I had to tell him about the chemistry of the drug and that due to a ring system being open and closed at different pH's and its water solubility, it only has 30-40% oral bioavailability.
I hate having to tell him his job, I dont go to my Cardiologist and say can I see that ECG please and the then advise him what to prescribe on the basis of it as I know he knows exactly what he is doing.
I think every new psychiatric patient should be told this is "my opinion", it's not necessary right and it may not work for you. I am sure you have heard the joke about whats the difference between God and a Psychiatrist.
Before I ever saw the first one all I had were infections and allergic conditions, so when you go to the Doctors and they give me some antibiotics or steroids (I used to be permanently on Junior Disprin, Septrin, and Dermovate as a child and regually took Seroxat and Mellaril together for years, its odd now that is no longer allowed) and you get better, you associate the two in your mind. It took me 5 years (I am pretty naive and guilable at times) to work out each and every Psychiatrist told me something different about exactly the same thing, and mine still thinks it is a Science.
Regards
James
Posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 21:24:35
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:41:53
Hi James,
Sorry for the delay - I'm withdrawing from all my drugs, including codeine. So not much motivation right now :-(
I actually like the bitter taste you get from zopiclone! Declan here took Dalmane for a while and said he got the bitter taste, but I can't remember what he thinks of the efficacy. I've taken a broad selection of benzos too. Estazolam and clobazam were interesting, and so was zolpidem - lovely hallucinations like being on magic mushrooms. I note it bears some similarity to muscimol, the main psychoactive ingredient Amanita genus mushrooms.
Q
Posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 21:35:12
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:55:58
Yeah, they're enormous tablets for such a tiny dose! I can't remember them clearly now but they certainly left an impression. I'm so used to taking tablets now I can swallow fistfuls at a time without flinching. It's strange because I used to have such a terrible struggle with even the tiniest ceterizine tablets when I was younger.
Q
Posted by cactus on May 11, 2007, at 23:00:20
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam.... » James_glasgow, posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 21:35:12
> Yeah, they're enormous tablets for such a tiny dose! I can't remember them clearly now but they certainly left an impression. I'm so used to taking tablets now I can swallow fistfuls at a time without flinching. It's strange because I used to have such a terrible struggle with even the tiniest ceterizine tablets when I was younger.
>
> QMogadon are the largest benzo I have ever seen, maybe 3 to 4 times the size of 5mg Val tab.
Q that taste from zopiclone/imovane is vile, how can you enjoy that? It's up there with a zinc deficiency test and man they are awful too
Posted by Quintal on May 12, 2007, at 0:36:19
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by cactus on May 11, 2007, at 23:00:20
Lol, maybe it's just because the taste shows the drug is active in my body and I associate it with that? I do like the taste in it's own right though!
Q
Posted by Quintal on May 12, 2007, at 0:46:40
In reply to Re: Mogadon/Alodorm is nitrazepam...., posted by James_glasgow on May 10, 2007, at 2:41:53
I once gave my dad 4mg clonazepam to deal with anxiety before going to work after I shaved his head. Perhaps not surprisingly I got a call later that day saying he'd collapsed at work and was in hospital - he was in for three days before he could stand and walk properly, and nearly a week before he was discharged. Maybe it was his age that caused such an extreme reaction, but I guess clonazepam would make a very effective date rape drug on benzo naive people too?
Q
Posted by James_glasgow on May 12, 2007, at 2:01:42
In reply to On the subject of benzos and date rape..........., posted by Quintal on May 12, 2007, at 0:46:40
Hi Qunital
You post almost made me laugh.
I have recently been on four milligrams of clonazepam as I had mania, no Consultant to see and it was the only thing I had in the house to bring me dowm. I was also concerned that on such a huge dose I was still going pretty fast. Getting to the point I sent an email to my old Psychiatrist (I am being transfered to another Consultant) to let him know what I was doing and I put in it, "I am rather concerned about the dose of clonazepam I am on and can tolerate, and still be hypomanic. I have seen a six foot two man take one milligram, have to be carried to bed an hour later where he slept for a whole day and then could not remember the next twenty four hour after coming around".
Indeed it is very very powerful stuff I have though just what you have written for sometime I first used the drug 1993, Roche really should get the tablets changed like they have with both Royhpnol in order that it colours drink, and I believe in Dormicum's case that makes if difficult to perform an aqueous extraction for injection.
Did your Dad forgive you? Mine is serious allergic to asprin and my brother was sent to the local Tesco and told to buy paracetamol (acetaminophen), no asprin. He came bank with something called paracetamol plus which my Dad did not bother to check, he took two and ended up walking on this hands and knees through the surgery door beacuse he could not breath from the asthma attack they caused. Needless to say my brother was apologising profusely and thankfully my Dad was okay.
James
Posted by James_glasgow on May 12, 2007, at 2:04:51
In reply to Re: On the subject of benzos and date rape..........., posted by James_glasgow on May 12, 2007, at 2:01:42
Sorry I should have said in case it is not obvious the plus in the paracetamol was both a full dose of asprin and some caffine. James
Posted by James_glasgow on May 12, 2007, at 2:37:25
In reply to *Calling Declan* - Your Dalmane Experience Needed » James_glasgow, posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 21:24:35
I think I previously said I have tried all but two benzo's that was a bit of an over exageration, I have not tried anything as exotic or indeed esoteric as Estazolam. Clobazam is different it is not a hypnotic, but if you push the dose up you start talking very very very slowly but are still completely concious. I have also had the Zolpidem hallucinations, I was in wig wam (or tee pee I cant rememeber what or if there is a difference), there was a fire in the middle and me and others were sat around it having a conversation, which I was doing out loud. It made my Doc chuckle. James
Posted by cactus on May 12, 2007, at 4:05:13
In reply to Re: On the subject of benzos and date rape..........., posted by James_glasgow on May 12, 2007, at 2:04:51
Out of all the benzos I have tried, which is quite a few, including rohypnol, the one that hit me the hardest was 2mg tabs of rivotril(clonazepam) a couple of years ago. It's the most powerful benzo for me. I don't really like it very much either, it's just too strong. I much prefer valium for anxiety and mogadon for sleep PRN. I do believe rohypnol has been singled out unfairly, it's a very good drug when used properly for sever insomnia.
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