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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 9:36:57
So far i am on my second week of phenelzine at 15 mg three times a day. All it does for me is turn me into a detached zombie, i want to sleep all the time, have stomach ache and constipation, and become shivery cold so i have to wear a big coat inside the house. I knew i would have side-effects but this beats any other med i have ever tried.
I was on parnate before but had a similar problem only the fatigue would come on about 2 hours after each dose where as now it is from midday until nightime.
I don't care about eating, i can't be bothered to wash or take any care in my appearance. I basically feel and lool withdrawn and tired. People comment on the fact that i don'e make any conversation and that when i do i can't find the right words.
Will these side-effects go away? If not i am probebly going to have to come off it. I feel worse now then i did before. At least i did not spend the day shivering cold and lying in bed.
Please can someone who has been on this tell me this will pass ?
Posted by bulldog2 on April 26, 2007, at 9:41:06
In reply to giving up on nardil, posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 9:36:57
> So far i am on my second week of phenelzine at 15 mg three times a day. All it does for me is turn me into a detached zombie, i want to sleep all the time, have stomach ache and constipation, and become shivery cold so i have to wear a big coat inside the house. I knew i would have side-effects but this beats any other med i have ever tried.
> I was on parnate before but had a similar problem only the fatigue would come on about 2 hours after each dose where as now it is from midday until nightime.
> I don't care about eating, i can't be bothered to wash or take any care in my appearance. I basically feel and lool withdrawn and tired. People comment on the fact that i don'e make any conversation and that when i do i can't find the right words.
> Will these side-effects go away? If not i am probebly going to have to come off it. I feel worse now then i did before. At least i did not spend the day shivering cold and lying in bed.
> Please can someone who has been on this tell me this will pass ?I've heard that many of the side effects get better or subside with nardil. Two weeks is to early to tell if it will work. See if you can hang in there 4-6 weeks. For all you know relief from your depression could be just a couple weeks away.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 26, 2007, at 12:11:40
In reply to giving up on nardil, posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 9:36:57
Jenny: I am on week four on Nardil, and basically your post sounded like me talking.
For stomach aches, etc: Take the Nardil w/food.
For fatigue: The is my biggest issue. Right now, Im going with No Doz or Energy Drinks, but may consider Provigil. I do have less sedation over time.
You have to know when trying Nardil, you will have a lot of nasty side effects at the beginning which will go away in time (according to my pdoc and other posts on this board).
REMEMBER THIS: The No. 1 reason meds do NOT work is NOT because they don't work. It's because people do NOT have the PATIENCE to stay on them long enough.
You and I need to do the same thing: Do whatever it takes to make it to 8 weeks. Our lives could be changed forever for the better.
Keep posting, Michael
Posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2007, at 12:47:32
In reply to Re: I feel your pain, BUT » jenny80, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 26, 2007, at 12:11:40
I truly wish you good luck and keep us posted. Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer on April 26, 2007, at 18:51:09
In reply to giving up on nardil, posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 9:36:57
Increase it more slowly? Perhaps go back to 15 mg for a few days and see if you can reduce some of those nasty side effects and then try 30 mg for a few more days, etc. When it worked for me years ago, it was 15 mg 2X day.
You may be someone like me that has to start very low and gradually increase the dosage as the side effects subside, else you will never know that perhaps you get an response at a lower dose than many here. Some of us are low dose responders. It has been true of me with just about every drug I've tried and now I realize I may have missed chances to get better responses because my doctor pushed the dosage up too high, too quickly.
Atleast I would try this before quitting altogether.
Stargazer
P.S. Despite my pdoc trying to get me to increase the Abilify higher I responded best to only 5 mg rather than the 10 mg he pushed for. So docs are not always the best judge of dosages despite what we like to think. 20 years doing meds for depression has made me a better judge of doses than my pdoc and he will tell me this.
Posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 19:12:05
In reply to Jenny80/Try a lower dose and see what it does..., posted by stargazer on April 26, 2007, at 18:51:09
Thank you all for your advice. i will drop the dose to 15 mg once a day and take things from there.
Stargazer, how long did it take you to respond to nardil and what were you using it for. also what are you using now ?
Posted by stargazer on April 26, 2007, at 20:33:47
In reply to Re: Jenny80/Try a lower dose and see what it does..., posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 19:12:05
I was on Nardil alomst 20years ago when prescibing a MAO was NO Big F'ing deal since there were very few meds around for depression. Unbeliveably, since now there's so many others, but everyone is afraid to prescribe them.
My idiot pdoc back then tried to get me off Nardil and I think it stopped working when I tried to take it after I got rid of that pdoc. Today they never take someone off a med that is working, never....
I am on Emsam and recently Abilify with some improvement but I still hold out hope for trying Nardil again. It worked very well or about 2 years and then Marplan worked until the drug manufacturor (Roche) decided to discontinue it since it wasn't making any $$$ for them (altruistic of them). It was recently rereleased but when I tried it last year, I got no results from it.
Depression really is the worst, since even the docs are not very good at treating the highly resistent cases and they almost never refer you to someone that might be able to help you. They keep their patients to themselves, even though over the years my progress has been minimal. Only now am I getting second opinions and trying new meds based on my research and readings here and on line. I've been in treatment with meds for 20+ years although I have had depression/dysthymia/anxiety for >30 years.
It sucks when you see life just passing you by and you know you are not well enough to be part of it without dropping out or giving up since you feel so incredibly bad.
Stargazer
Posted by FredPotter on April 27, 2007, at 0:28:38
In reply to Re: Jenny80/Try a lower dose and see what it does..., posted by stargazer on April 26, 2007, at 20:33:47
Stargazer I say my Dr's sick of me with my opinions on drugs and printouts from the internet. I should be sick of him. He hasn't provided any relief in all the years I've been seeing him. He just takes my money and tells me not to take so much Xanax. WE employ THEM don't we?
Fred
Posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 4:08:37
In reply to Re: Jenny80/Try a lower dose and see what it does... » stargazer, posted by FredPotter on April 27, 2007, at 0:28:38
After 2 weeks of enduring crippling cold shivers, drowsiness, insomnia and worsening depression i took my last dose last night.
I cant understand where ths cold shivers and goose pimples come from. They are the worse part for me.
I think i may start again in 1 week on 15 mg once a day however as i am still having symptoms now and have been off it for 24 hours i doubt it will help.
i have already tried parnate and got the same cold shivers. don't know why i am getting this unusual symptom.
Posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 4:10:05
In reply to Re: Jenny80/Try a lower dose and see what it does... » stargazer, posted by FredPotter on April 27, 2007, at 0:28:38
After 2 weeks of enduring crippling cold shivers, drowsiness, insomnia and worsening depression i took my last dose last night.
I cant understand where ths cold shivers and goose pimples come from. They are the worse part for me.
I think i may start again in 1 week on 15 mg once a day however as i am still having symptoms now and have been off it for 24 hours i doubt it will help.
i have already tried parnate and got the same cold shivers. don't know why i am getting this unusual symptom.
Posted by football on April 27, 2007, at 14:02:26
In reply to given up on nardil, posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 4:10:05
As crummy as the side-effects are, they won't last forever.
Before you quit Nardil, please think about this question... Would you rather have a couple weeks of crappy side-effects and then get drastically better, or would you rather quit now and continue to feel miserable every day?
Posted by brooke484 on April 27, 2007, at 14:04:22
In reply to giving up on nardil, posted by jenny80 on April 26, 2007, at 9:36:57
Treatment-Resistant Depression: Strategies for Management
Alicia R. Ruelaz, MD
Despite advances in our understanding of depression therapy, many patients with depression remain unresponsive to treatment. As many as 50% of patients who begin treatment with an antidepressant do not respond.1 In fact, even after 2 antidepressant trials, 30% to 40% of patients do not report significant improvement in their symptoms.2 There is no universally accepted definition of treatment-resistant depression; however, a working definition is depression that fails to respond to an adequate trial of antidepressant treatment. In this case, nonresponse is defined as the failure to obtain at least a 50% reduction in symptom severity on a standard rating scale score. A growing consensus in the field suggests that an adequate trial of an antidepressant is the highest dosage tolerated by a patient within the approved therapeutic range for 6 weeks.I thought the last sentence was important. I remember when I was on Imipramine it took months for me to get to the right dose (400 mgs) and then after that it took a few weeks for it to kick in. You must be patient, hard as it is.
Brooke
Posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 14:40:46
In reply to PLEASE READ, posted by brooke484 on April 27, 2007, at 14:04:22
Thank you for your help.
I know i should be patient. Trouble is i look like i'm on drugs, pale and withdrawn, cant eat and i feel so intensely cold and shivery.
I'm also a junior doctor in obs&gnyae and can't affort to feel like this when i have an 84 hour week next week.
I can't win. I probably would not respond to it anyway as i am feeling suicidal right now after 10 days of being on it.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 27, 2007, at 15:40:46
In reply to Re: PLEASE READ, posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 14:40:46
Jenny:
My heart goes out to you. We're all very concerned about you. If you can find the energy, please post how you feel as descriptive as possible. Then maybe some others on here may have some suggestions on what to augment with Nardil.
I hope and pray you find a way to stay on Nardil. Football (and myself right now) went through some nasty side effects, but read Football's post at the bottom of the page.
Nardil could be the miracle for you, if you could somehow gain the strength to stay on it.
What about taking some No Doz?
I've never heard of those other symptoms on Nardil, but everyone is different. Do you think you may have a virus or infection?
We're praying for you. Hang in there, Michael
Posted by brooke484 on April 27, 2007, at 20:24:15
In reply to Re: PLEASE READ, posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 14:40:46
Did all of these symptoms start with Nardil? If so, I would reduce the dose. When I took it years ago I think I took 15 mgs for 2 weeks and then went to 30 two weeks after that. I am very sensitive to drugs and it sounds like you are too.
Hope you feel better soon.
Brooke :)
Posted by Racer on April 28, 2007, at 20:58:34
In reply to given up on nardil, posted by jenny80 on April 27, 2007, at 4:10:05
> i have already tried parnate and got the same cold shivers. don't know why i am getting this unusual symptom.
I've had both problems -- hypotension and hypoglycemia -- at different times, and either could lead to a feeling that could be described as cold shivers. My guess is that it's not actually changing my temperature, but somehow messin' with my CNS. You'd know more than I about that, though, I suspect.
Anyway, although the hypertensive crisis is the effet most often discussed with MAOIs, they are also known to cause hypotension for many people who take them. If that's what's causing your cold shivers, it can probably be addresed. It's easy enough to see if that's the problem.
Hypoglycemia wouldn't be too far off the mark, either -- especially if you're not eating much on it. Many anti-depressants can cause changes to blood glucose levels, so it wouldn't be surprising if it's lowering yours. It should be easy enough to test for, too. (Although I had a PA once refuse to do the fasting glucose reading my doctor ordered, saying "I don't believe in hypoglycemia." I told her, "You don't believe in it *as a diagnosis,* maybe, but it's certainly real as a symptom." She still wouldn't do it. When my doctor came in, several hours later, she wasn't happy. Don't know why I told that story, but you got to hear it anyway.)
As for the bottom line for you, hard as it is, it's worth trying to stick out the adjustment phase. It's a vicious circle, otherwise -- you quit, you start to lose hope for anything helping, which makes it easier to quit the next drug, and the next. If you don't take them, they can't help you -- and you really do have to take them for an adequate time period to get any relief. The bad part is that the adjustment phase is usually the worst, in terms of side effects.
Good luck.
Posted by brooke484 on April 29, 2007, at 12:21:00
In reply to Re: I feel your pain, BUT » jenny80, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 26, 2007, at 12:11:40
Maybe that is something to consider also.
brooke
This is the end of the thread.
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