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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lukeds on April 13, 2007, at 13:00:52
This can be true? I can't believe it!
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050504/msgs/494908.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050504/msgs/495210.html
We, the sufferers of mental-illnesses are in the hands of those wild-capitalistic-sharks pharmaceuticals, and their slaves the psychiatrists that they only prescribe us the drugs that the pharmaceuticals decide that are "good" for us?
When a film about this, similar to "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", but instead of denounce the lobotomy abuse, denounce the pharmaceuticals lack of ethics, and abuse.
What a scu***gs!
Lukeds.
Posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2007, at 15:26:56
In reply to Is this the way the pharmaceuticals go!!!!!!!?????, posted by lukeds on April 13, 2007, at 13:00:52
Yup. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on April 13, 2007, at 15:29:40
In reply to Is this the way the pharmaceuticals go!!!!!!!?????, posted by lukeds on April 13, 2007, at 13:00:52
>
> We, the sufferers of mental-illnesses are in the hands of those wild-capitalistic-sharks pharmaceuticals, and their slaves the psychiatrists that they only prescribe us the drugs that the pharmaceuticals decide that are "good" for us?
>
Here is the US it is the government (DEA) that decides these kind of things. ***Why*** would a company want a drug they spent billion to develop
off the market ??
Posted by mattye on April 14, 2007, at 0:05:35
In reply to Re: Is this the way the pharmaceuticals go!!!!!!!?, posted by notfred on April 13, 2007, at 15:29:40
Are you talking about Stablon (tianeptine)?
Why in the world was this drug never marketed in the US? Is it because it totally destroys the "not enough serotonin" marketing slogan that has dominated the psychiatric world since Prozac?
Read this! This stuff is actually a serotonin reuptake ENHANCER. That means it keeps the serotonin OUT of the synapse. And no sexual side effects! It sounds too good to be true. Weird!
>
> Here is the US it is the government (DEA) that decides these kind of things. ***Why*** would a company want a drug they spent billion to develop
> off the market ??
Posted by notfred on April 14, 2007, at 3:07:06
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by mattye on April 14, 2007, at 0:05:35
Is it because it totally destroys the "not enough serotonin" marketing slogan that has dominated the psychiatric world since Prozac?
>t
Nope. Neurotransmitter theories like that are over 50 yrs old and this flawed understanding of "too much" or "chemical inbalance" is taken as fact.
I was also talking about drugs taken off the market not ones that never were on the market.
The reasons a drug is not on the market in the US
are often complex.
Posted by lukeds on April 14, 2007, at 4:51:15
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by notfred on April 14, 2007, at 3:07:06
> I was also talking about drugs taken off the market not ones that never were on the market.
> The reasons a drug is not on the market in the US are often complex.Is "complex" a synonym of "money"? xD
Posted by notfred on April 14, 2007, at 12:18:30
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)? » notfred, posted by lukeds on April 14, 2007, at 4:51:15
> > I was also talking about drugs taken off the market not ones that never were on the market.
> > The reasons a drug is not on the market in the US are often complex.
>
> Is "complex" a synonym of "money"? xD
>j
I will bow out here as I am tired of another bash
the drug makers because someone does not do well.
I think attitude has a lot to do with my remission
so on this board I am finding more and more people
who I should best avoid.You get what you expect.
Posted by Declan on April 14, 2007, at 16:38:51
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by notfred on April 14, 2007, at 12:18:30
Captive market.
All the fun of being empowered clients and consumers.
It's just how it is.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on April 14, 2007, at 20:57:37
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by Declan on April 14, 2007, at 16:38:51
pharma companies are scum
Posted by mattye on April 14, 2007, at 22:13:50
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by notfred on April 14, 2007, at 12:18:30
I'm still curious as to why such a novel antidepressant without the typical side effects of SSRIs was never marketed in the US.
The article I linked to (http://www.tianeptine.com/) that there are still patentable (and therefore profitible) analogs of this drug (Think Celexa/Lexapro) but no one has taken advantage of this.
Personally, I would love to try this medication. It has strong anxiolytic effects, probably better than SSRIS, as well as having no sexual side effects (YEAH!)
So what gives? Why isn't this available?
> > > I was also talking about drugs taken off the market not ones that never were on the market.
> > > The reasons a drug is not on the market in the US are often complex.
> >
> > Is "complex" a synonym of "money"? xD
> >j
>
>
> I will bow out here as I am tired of another bash
> the drug makers because someone does not do well.
> I think attitude has a lot to do with my remission
> so on this board I am finding more and more people
> who I should best avoid.
>
> You get what you expect.
>
>
Posted by foreigner on April 15, 2007, at 0:58:05
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by mattye on April 14, 2007, at 22:13:50
I used tianeptine It was very good for depression especially for anxiety. But but...It had a so much hair loss side effect for me.
About the drug economy and their phys. I agree with most of you. They are the part of this capitalist jungle and most physc. are workers of it.
Posted by Declan on April 15, 2007, at 3:12:17
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by foreigner on April 15, 2007, at 0:58:05
Did you get your hair back?
Now I'm worried.
I don't have much left.
Posted by foreigner on April 15, 2007, at 5:06:08
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)? » foreigner, posted by Declan on April 15, 2007, at 3:12:17
> Did you get your hair back?
>
> Now I'm worried.
>
> I don't have much left.Do you have the same side effect?
I had too much hair loss and dry hair with it in 2 mounths. I don't use it because of this.I don't know how much of them I got back but It's better now.
Posted by naughtypuppy on April 15, 2007, at 8:59:05
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by foreigner on April 15, 2007, at 5:06:08
It's not just the pharma companies. My pdoc applied to the government to get tianapine imported and was refused. If it was an AIDS treatment the politicians would be falling all over themselves to get it imported no matter how little promise it showed. I guess it's the squeeky wheel gets greased syndrome. Maybe we should march down the streets wearing stupid costumes, shouting slogans that rhyme and acting like a bunch of lunatics :) then we would get some action.
Posted by notfred on April 16, 2007, at 0:18:46
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by naughtypuppy on April 15, 2007, at 8:59:05
> It's not just the pharma companies. My pdoc applied to the government to get tianapine imported was refused.
Stablon has not been tested at all in the US, Foreign studies are not accepted by the FDA, to approve a new med. While this seems a PITA, there were no flipper babies in the US, due to the FDA's strict requirements.
The rounds of testing are very expensive. Even if a patentable analogue was tested and approved, as
Stablon is now off patent generic tianeptine could then be offered, using the existing studies on the analogue. So the pharma that pays for the testing
does not stand to get any ROI. This is the way a business operates.As I said, the reasons are often complex.
I think the gov needs to step in and do the testing on tianeptine, then we would have generics, as there would be ROI in offering them.
Posted by djmmm on April 16, 2007, at 5:52:43
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by notfred on April 16, 2007, at 0:18:46
we discussed some of this a while back :)
Posted by notfred on April 16, 2007, at 8:21:48
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by djmmm on April 16, 2007, at 5:52:43
> we discussed some of this a while back :)
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061217/msgs/715068.html
And got it wrong! just more trash the big pharma
rhetoric.
" It is not marketed in North America because its patent has expired. To gain a US product license, a raft of costly new clinical trials would be needed by the FDA. Unfortunately, American regulators are habitually sceptical of the calibre of European medical science. Even after FDA approval, tianeptine/Stablon could be sold only cheaply due to generic competitors. Commercially, this might not seem an insoluble problem: structurally, tianeptine may be considered a modified tricyclic, and patentable analogues of tianeptine do exist, notably hetero[2,1]benzothiazepine derivatives. But if and when any such analogues will be commercialised is uncertain. No evidence exists that they are therapeutically superior to tianeptine. Another option might exploit how tianeptine sold as Stablon (etc) is a racemate; the l-isomer is more therapeutically active than its molecular sister. The design of single-isomer "chiral" drugs allows corporate patent lawyers to extend the patent life of old medicines. Thus tired SSRI antidepressant citalopram/Celexa was relaunched in 2002 as expensive new s-citalopram/Lexapro; and patent-expired modafinil/Provigil will soon be relaunched as expensive new r-modafinil/Nuvigil. This route hasn't been pursued yet with Stablon. In fact tianeptine may finally reach the USA branded not as an antidepressant, but in the guise of a treatment of Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). For in 2004 Vela Pharmaceuticals registered a patent for the use of tianeptine to treat IBS. In March 2006 Pharmos Corporation acquired Vela. Tianeptine for IBS is now in "late-preclinical development" (mid-2006). If and when a medicine gains a US product license, physicians can then prescribe it "off-label" for whatever they see fit, including depression. But this prospect is several years away at best."
Posted by naughtypuppy on April 16, 2007, at 8:36:02
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by notfred on April 16, 2007, at 0:18:46
> > It's not just the pharma companies. My pdoc applied to the government to get tianapine imported was refused.
>
> Stablon has not been tested at all in the US, Foreign studies are not accepted by the FDA, to approve a new med. While this seems a PITA, there were no flipper babies in the US, due to the FDA's strict requirements.
>
> The rounds of testing are very expensive. Even if a patentable analogue was tested and approved, as
> Stablon is now off patent generic tianeptine could then be offered, using the existing studies on the analogue. So the pharma that pays for the testing
> does not stand to get any ROI. This is the way a business operates.
>
> As I said, the reasons are often complex.
>
> I think the gov needs to step in and do the testing on tianeptine, then we would have generics, as there would be ROI in offering them.
>
>
Well put. The government should at least fast track a med that has already been approved elsewhere.
Posted by djmmm on April 16, 2007, at 8:53:23
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by notfred on April 16, 2007, at 8:21:48
> > we discussed some of this a while back :)
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061217/msgs/715068.html
>
>
> And got it wrong! just more trash the big pharma
> rhetoric.
>
> http://www.tianeptine.com/
>
>
> " It is not marketed in North America because its patent has expired. To gain a US product license, a raft of costly new clinical trials would be needed by the FDA. Unfortunately, American regulators are habitually sceptical of the calibre of European medical science. Even after FDA approval, tianeptine/Stablon could be sold only cheaply due to generic competitors. Commercially, this might not seem an insoluble problem: structurally, tianeptine may be considered a modified tricyclic, and patentable analogues of tianeptine do exist, notably hetero[2,1]benzothiazepine derivatives. But if and when any such analogues will be commercialised is uncertain. No evidence exists that they are therapeutically superior to tianeptine. Another option might exploit how tianeptine sold as Stablon (etc) is a racemate; the l-isomer is more therapeutically active than its molecular sister. The design of single-isomer "chiral" drugs allows corporate patent lawyers to extend the patent life of old medicines. Thus tired SSRI antidepressant citalopram/Celexa was relaunched in 2002 as expensive new s-citalopram/Lexapro; and patent-expired modafinil/Provigil will soon be relaunched as expensive new r-modafinil/Nuvigil. This route hasn't been pursued yet with Stablon. In fact tianeptine may finally reach the USA branded not as an antidepressant, but in the guise of a treatment of Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). For in 2004 Vela Pharmaceuticals registered a patent for the use of tianeptine to treat IBS. In March 2006 Pharmos Corporation acquired Vela. Tianeptine for IBS is now in "late-preclinical development" (mid-2006). If and when a medicine gains a US product license, physicians can then prescribe it "off-label" for whatever they see fit, including depression. But this prospect is several years away at best."This med will NEVER be approved here. How can you market an effective medication that reduces serotonin, when for the last 20 years we have all been force fed the idea that depression is related to a "deficiency in serotonin" ?
Posted by notfred on April 16, 2007, at 10:52:35
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by djmmm on April 16, 2007, at 8:53:23
> This med will NEVER be approved here. How can you market an effective medication that reduces serotonin, when for the last 20 years we have all been force fed the idea that depression is related to a "deficiency in serotonin" ?
There are many AD's that do not work this way on the market. Lamictal is not a RI and some opiods are not RI's...but they work and are for some effective AD's. There are many not drugs in the pipeline that are not RI's ....or for that matter AD's that do not effect NT...Lar has posted quite a bit of info on this.
I am feeling really good today on Lamictal, btw !
Posted by gardenergirl on April 22, 2007, at 17:47:08
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine)?, posted by elanor roosevelt on April 14, 2007, at 20:57:37
> pharma companies are scum
Please don't post anything that overgeneralizes or could lead others to feel accused or put down, such as those who are employed by or have faith in pharmaceutical companies. If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
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http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action. If you wish, you can appeal this decision to him.
namasté
gg, acting as deputy
This is the end of the thread.
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