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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 8:28:31
Who would have thought??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6509781.stm
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2007, at 10:39:38
In reply to Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 8:28:31
Merri do you buy it as my first SSRI was when around dirt and doing yard work. And my autoimmune sytem has given me the thyroid problems or do I read it wrong? Love Phillipa ps I wasn't in dirt when I took it
Posted by Ines on April 2, 2007, at 11:51:43
In reply to Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 8:28:31
I know! I saw that in the news earlier today, It's so interesting... It got me thinking about how the UK has by far the highest incidence of mental health problems in the general population, and it also has a high number of children suffering from allergies- which a lot of researchers believe is due to obsession with 'sterile' environments for children, and the use of antibacterial soap, antibacterial eashing up liquid, cleaning liquid etc... gets you thinking.
Posted by Iansf on April 2, 2007, at 13:21:48
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness' » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2007, at 10:39:38
> Merri do you buy it as my first SSRI was when around dirt and doing yard work. And my autoimmune sytem has given me the thyroid problems or do I read it wrong? Love Phillipa ps I wasn't in dirt when I took it
Well, if exposure to dirt were sufficient on its own, you'd never find farmers or landscapers or gardeners suffering from depression. But that's definitely not the case since I know people in each of those categories who do have problems with depression. Besides which, surely the level of that particular bacterium varies from location to location.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:30:08
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by Ines on April 2, 2007, at 11:51:43
> 'sterile' environments for children,
To be totally honest, I think the UK has probably one of the least sterile home environments - largely due to the national obsession with carpets and the poorer quality housing.
I mean, here in Finland the floor is wooden or like laminated - everybody changes their outdoor shoes as soon as they come inside into house shoes (they do this even in offices), which is something that not all that many people do. Plus, the windows! In the UK you have to wipe up in the morning pools of water from the condensation! Plus that grows mold, which isn't particulary healthy.
In the house we rent back in the UK at the moment, they have carpet in the bathroom! A german collegue came round once and couldn't believe it.
I mean okay, you might have decent windows and damp courses and un-carpeted floors in the higher income families, but here this isn't even an issue even amongst the poorest families.
No, I'd say that the UK has the highest incidence of asthma etc because of the carpets, and the damp mouldy general conditions.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Ines on April 2, 2007, at 15:02:55
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:30:08
Meri,
When I first got here I noticed that too- the houses are very messy actually, and they feel unclean. And carpets in the bathroom and mouldy bathtubs- yes, I agree, unbelievable. I was discussing this with an immunologist a while ago,re: allergies, and he said that wasn't really the point- the issue is with all the antibacterial products in the kitchen. In other countries they're more obsessed with cleanliness, but not with sterility in the kitchen. Here (and in the US apparently) semi sterility, particularly for baby products, has become an obsession. You can get antibacterial everything- even vegetable wash. Which means the immune system of children is not challenged as it should be, particularly when it comes to bacteria that one would normally ingest, resulting in T1 helper cells not developing properly (they are the cells that provide cellular immunity). There's research showing people who suffer from ashma and eczema have less efficient T1 cells...Anyway, that's not relevant to depression, but I thought it was interesting that the 'dirt' issue cropped up again... there are a few studies showing better immune systems in children that grow up on farms, for e.g.- I remember one study that specfically relates to being exposed to cow poo at an early age and how that can be beneficial for the immune system! So this study just makes me wonder even more if the majority of us are not just living in conditions that are actually unatural to us humans (from an evolutionary perspective) and how that affects us
Ines
Posted by FredPotter on April 2, 2007, at 17:18:42
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness' » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Ines on April 2, 2007, at 15:02:55
In the New Scientist there was an article of how to get rid of asthma by infecting your gut with pig whip worms (small nematodes). These down-regulate the autoimmune system to a state it would have been when we were chasing sabre-toothed tigers. Before all this cleanliness. The scientists were so confident they did it to themselves. Sadly not many of us have nematodes in our guts anymore. The immune system is usually like a wild beast that needs holding back. We hear a lot about stimulating the immune system - and we correspondingly hear a lot about allergies (even MS?)
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2007, at 19:36:05
In reply to Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 8:28:31
Oh wow since I have autoimmune disorders maybe that's why SSRI's dont agree with me. I missed this point the first time I read the article. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2007, at 19:39:48
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by FredPotter on April 2, 2007, at 17:18:42
Fred and don't forget the high incidence of thyroid disease in depressed people. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 3, 2007, at 10:04:28
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness' » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Ines on April 2, 2007, at 15:02:55
Ah I see your point Ines.
Also I read somewhere that beastfeeding is good at getting the babies immune system into shape? Something like the longer you breastfeed, the less allergies the baby will end up with. Perhaps thats just something my mother noticed with her children (I have no allergies whatsoever and she breastfed me the longest apparently).
Anyway. Yes I'm sure the immune system isn't challenged enough.
Also I read somewhere that toddlers have this instinct to put everything in their months, and that apparently (so the theory goes) is them calibrating their immune systems. So I can see how a mother in this day and age would go slightly mental to see for example, dirt in their babies mouths.
Thing is, nowadays we have all these man made chemcials - things which weren't around when we were living in caves. Which are not good. Oh well.
I also think that the kids in the UK nowadays must be the most housebound - kids here in Finland play outside all the time, and in fact, they put babies out for their afternoon nap in all weather - like even if its -15˚C, which is quite incredible.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2007, at 20:56:34
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness' » Ines, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 3, 2007, at 10:04:28
yeah I used to eat dirt. I had a very rustic childhood in the Cotswolds in the UK. No running water, apart from the idyllic garden stream, no sewerage system, chickens in the kitchen, etc. Once I noticed the water from the semi-rotary pump was pink and made tea taste foul. A little exploration led me to a dead cow lying upstream in the water.
I shouldn't celebrate my immune system too much though, although my eczema disappeared when I moved there age 7 and I don't get asthma. However I contracted nephritis age 9 and my life was saved by penicillin. So obviously you can have too much of a good thing
Fred
Posted by jealibeanz on April 6, 2007, at 5:03:11
In reply to Re: Dirt exposure 'boosts happiness', posted by FredPotter on April 2, 2007, at 17:18:42
> In the New Scientist there was an article of how to get rid of asthma by infecting your gut with pig whip worms (small nematodes). These down-regulate the autoimmune system to a state it would have been when we were chasing sabre-toothed tigers. Before all this cleanliness. The scientists were so confident they did it to themselves. Sadly not many of us have nematodes in our guts anymore. The immune system is usually like a wild beast that needs holding back. We hear a lot about stimulating the immune system - and we correspondingly hear a lot about allergies (even MS?)
> FredI heard about using worms for allergies in my A+P class. I don't know what type of worms were used, but it would go along the same lines as treating asthma, since the two condition are usually related.
This spring has been pretty bad for allergies in the US, but I'm not resorting to worms yet! I'll just keep itching and take Benadryl as needed.
This is the end of the thread.
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