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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 3:43:34
Hey all, just looking for some feedback, who here knows the main differences between pericyazine and chlorpromazine. Which symptoms do they treat best, each? and which do u think would be more helpful in helping me quit smoking. the main symptoms im looking to aleviate during my nicotine withdrawal is sever anxiety and agitation.
thank you for your input, its much appreciated.
b0rderline86
Posted by James_glasgow on April 1, 2007, at 4:09:08
In reply to pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 3:43:34
Hi there, both of those medicines are anti-psychotics with very powerful sedative effects. I would imagine they it would be like trying to crack a nut with a sledge hammer using those for nicotine withdrawal. They can also cause agitation themselves so may make the problem worse. The standard treatments for nicotine withdrawal are Zyban and the new one Champix (or Chantix) which both help with the withdrawal symptoms and cravings. Clonidine is also used sometimes. I would see your doctor about those meds and if the agitation gets that bad ask for a benzodiazpeine, such as diazepam or lorazepam to get you over the worst of it.
Hope this helps.
James
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 4:16:52
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by James_glasgow on April 1, 2007, at 4:09:08
Thank you for ur input, i can not obtain benzos, for my own safety, i am interested to know why u think neither pericyazine or chlorpromasine wouldnt work, it would at least be helpful, correct? please elaroate (just to be a pain)
thanx
Posted by James_glasgow on April 1, 2007, at 4:29:02
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!? » James_glasgow, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 4:16:52
no problem.
Its not that I dont think they wont work they are just very very heavy sedatives so you would only need a small dose for nicotine withdrawal. I would estimate up to 30mg of chlorpromazine a day, and maybe 5-7.5mg's of pericyazine. Even at these doses some sensitive individuals can get side-effects such as muscle stiffness and an uncontrolable urge to move about, which themseleves need treated usually with the drug procyclidine.
James
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 4:51:35
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by James_glasgow on April 1, 2007, at 4:29:02
fantastic, i appreciate your input, i was never expexting to exceed 50mg of chlorpromazine a day. i am unsure as to how much pericyazine i should be taking, my idea was to use the chlorpromazine during the day and then a dose of pericyzine at night to help me off to sleep. i will be taking zyban at the same time (yes im aware of increased risk of seizures and such) another issue im wondering about it which mood stabilizer to go onto, my mood changes moderately, yet out of the ordinary, on a daily basis. every week or so it changes a bit more severely, then monthly i get to the point where i am in a bathtub of my own blood ( 2 nights) ago ). Any ideas for a mood stabilizer in that regard. i will always go through a doctor to get such things but i like to have my own ideas to express with him.So you sound like ur a dr, correct?
Posted by James_glasgow on April 1, 2007, at 5:17:25
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!? » James_glasgow, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 4:51:35
I'm not a doctor, I do have a degree in Medicinal Chemistry and have studied Pharmacology for over 10 years. I think before you get a mood stabiliser you need to get a diagnosis or is the clue in your username? There is an excellent website by a guy called Dr Phelp at http://www.psycheducation.org/ I would read through that, as it applies to mood stabilisation from all angles whether its bipolar or borderline. As far as I am aware the best medication if you are borderline is carbamazepine, but as I said take a look at that site. Also make sure you tell your doc about the self-harming, and remember (as I once forgot, no lots of times forgot, due to meeting nasty and ignorant healthcare prof's), that most people genuinely want to help.
Take care.
James
Posted by xbunny2007 on April 1, 2007, at 6:49:31
In reply to pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 3:43:34
> Hey all, just looking for some feedback, who here knows the main differences between pericyazine and chlorpromazine. Which symptoms do they treat best, each? and which do u think would be more helpful in helping me quit smoking. the main symptoms im looking to aleviate during my nicotine withdrawal is sever anxiety and agitation.
My experiences of those drugs at the doses described are:
Pericyazine: (I took it for quite some time, in doses varing from 10mg at startup upto 75mg which I maintained until I quit it)
a) Very hypotensive at start up
b) Doesnt cause much physical EPS
c) Medium level of akathisia.
d) Medium level of anxiety reduction
e) Higher level of physical sedation
f) Lower level of mental sedation
g) Poor controller of positive symtpoms
h) No mood effects.Chlorpromazine: (Took doses between 75mg and 150mg didnt stick with it very long atall):
a) Not hyptotensive
b) Strong physical EPS (which is why I didnt stick with it)
c) Higher akathisia
d) Good anxiety reduction (which is badly offset by the akathisia and EPS)
e) Medium level of physical sedation
f) Higher level of mental sedation
g) Medium controller of positive symptoms
h) Boosted my mood slightlyOverall I would recommend neither to releive anxiety and agitation. If it were the only choices I would go for the chlorpromazine for these reasons:
a) Its more mentally sedating and anxiety reducing
b) Usage will be shortterm so the physical EPS can be tolerated
c) its not (for me at least) strongly hypotensive at startup.Still though I cant see any logic in taking an antipsychotic for what you are describing. If it were me I would try a sedating antidepressant first if benzos werent available.
I havent taken it but I would gather seroquel (quetiapine) would be a better choice of antipsychotic than the two mentioned. I think unless theres some pressing personal reason that even zyprexa (olanzapine) would be better too.Bunny
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 7:52:42
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by xbunny2007 on April 1, 2007, at 6:49:31
Hey bunny, thanks for your input, it was very discriptive. i am thinking of using either of the chlorpromazine or pericyazine just to put off the intense anxiety and agitation i experience when i quit smoking, i will be taking Zyban (bupropion) to help me quit and am allready on Lexapro (escitalopram). I have tried Zyprexa and put on 2 kilos a week, its effects however were fantastic. i have also used seroquel, which made me fall asleep on public transport. i can not afford either of these medications these days tho. any other ideass??
Shane
Posted by kaleidoscope on April 1, 2007, at 9:33:21
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!? » xbunny2007, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 7:52:42
Hi
Be *very* careful. Antipsychotics can cause severe side effects. Most importantly, antipsychotics do not help people quit smoking.
K
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 9:42:56
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by kaleidoscope on April 1, 2007, at 9:33:21
thanks for the advice! i will be very careful. I am allready on lexapro20mg and chlorpromazine50mg (max taken divided when needed). I will be using Zyban (bupropion) to help me quit. I guess to be more specific, which would be better at getting me off to sleep (counteracting the speed-like effect of Zyban) a larger dose of chlorpromazine or perhaps a small dose of pericyazine(old script). I guess ill just have to see how it pans out. how does it sound to you tho?
Posted by kaleidoscope on April 1, 2007, at 10:51:55
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!? » kaleidoscope, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 9:42:56
Hi again
I think it's best to wait and see how you find the Zyban (also know as bupropion, Wellbutrin). You might find that Zyban has a useful antidepressant effect. It is, after all, one of the most frequently prescribed antidepressants in the US under the brand name Wellbutrin. On the other hand, you might find that Zyban makes you feel agitated, angry and anxious. If this happens, I would recommend that you stop taking Zyban and use another method to help you stop smoking. Trying to cover up Zyban's side effects with an antipsychotic could easily make you feel a lot worse.
K
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 10:57:59
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!? » b0rderline86, posted by kaleidoscope on April 1, 2007, at 10:51:55
Yeh the welbutrin cured my mother who now lives happily in america. it isnt available in australia as an anti depressant yet, only a quit smoking aid. Ill defenetely continue with my usual dosing, and only in worst case scenarios will i use a lil extra chlorprom to take off the edge or assist with sleep.
Posted by xbunny2007 on April 1, 2007, at 11:39:20
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by kaleidoscope on April 1, 2007, at 9:33:21
> Most importantly, antipsychotics do not help people quit smoking.
Absolutely have to agree with that. Having now quit antipsychotics I have unintentionally cut down smoking by at least two thirds.. I wish I could find a reference but I reckon thats it probably a general experience that people who take antipsychotics smoke more.
Bunny
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 20:27:04
In reply to Re: pericyazine/chlorpromazine, whats the diff!?, posted by xbunny2007 on April 1, 2007, at 11:39:20
Okay, i guess anti psychotics arent going to help me quit smoking. i must agree, when i wake up after my main dosing of largactil the night before, it takes a cigarette to clear the fog in my mind. It seems to be a good antidote to the mental numbness. Now im just getting more lost. i really want to quit smoking, the fact i smoke actually adds to my depression. what do i do!? any other ideas?
Posted by TheMeanReds on April 2, 2007, at 13:08:16
In reply to RE: antipsychotics to quit smoking, i guess not. » xbunny2007, posted by b0rderline86 on April 1, 2007, at 20:27:04
Wellbutrin helped my one of my former boyfriends quit smoking.
I tried to not smoke all day Sunday.
I've got a monkey on my back.
Posted by b0rderline86 on April 2, 2007, at 13:14:55
In reply to RE: antipsychotics to quit smoking, i guess not. » b0rderline86, posted by TheMeanReds on April 2, 2007, at 13:08:16
I have also had much succes with buproion in the past, would love to use it again but with my current regime of escitalopram, chlorpromazine(very low dose) and carbamazepine (just starting) im scared of interactions and just the plain fact im mucking around with my brain so much. I guess a form of NRT would be most appropriate in my case. Anyone know if theres any major reactions with the bupropion and the rest of my meds. Drug interaction checkers i have used are saying yes.
This is the end of the thread.
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