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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 21:11:42
I've been on 75 MG since the 15th with nothing to show for it but a few nasty side effects. However, today, I feel a little different. My depression is better then it's been for weeks and I think it might be starting to help with my anxiety. I started up a conversation with the woman working at Subway, something I don't think I would have done before, with minimal anxiety. I also talked more then I ever have in my group therapy.
Maybe I'm just having a good day, but for the first time in a long time I'm feeling a little hopeful!
The side effects (dizziness, weakness, constipation, insomnia, lack of appetite, etc...) are starting to fade a bit, so I'm gonna see if my doc will bump me up to 90 MG, and hopefully, after a couple more weeks, I'll be feeling better then I have in years!
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2007, at 22:04:56
In reply to Holy ****! Nardil starting to work?, posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 21:11:42
Football that's great. Love Phillipa
Posted by saturn on March 26, 2007, at 22:13:59
In reply to Re: Holy ****! Nardil starting to work? » football, posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2007, at 22:04:56
> Football that's great. Love Phillipa
Ditto
Posted by Jedi on March 26, 2007, at 22:49:26
In reply to Holy ****! Nardil starting to work?, posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 21:11:42
Hi Football,
Sure hope that Nardil is starting to work for you. When Nardil kicked in for me, I too would actually talk to the checker in the grocery store. Before Nardil my social anxiety was so bad I wouldn't even think about starting a conversation unless it was at work, in my area of expertise.Be careful of hypomania when the med first kicks in. It got me and actually felt so good after years of dysthymia and major depression that I wanted to hold on to it. Have someone close to you watch for the signs. Sometimes we don't recognize them in ourselves. Heck, I was giving away money and actually thought this was normal behaviour.
Good Luck,
Jedi
"Hypomania: A condition similar to mania but less severe. The symptoms are similar with elevated mood, increased activity, decreased need for sleep, grandiosity, racing thoughts, and the like. However, hypomanic episodes differ in that they do not cause significant distress or impair one's work, family, or social life in an obvious way while manic episodes do.Hypomanic people tend to be unusually cheerful, have more than ample energy, and need little sleep. Hypomania is a pleasurable state. It may confer a heightened sense of creativity and power. However, hypomania can subtly impair a person's judgment. Too much confidence can conceal the consequences of decisions."
MedicineNet.com
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=30745> I've been on 75 MG since the 15th with nothing to show for it but a few nasty side effects. However, today, I feel a little different. My depression is better then it's been for weeks and I think it might be starting to help with my anxiety. I started up a conversation with the woman working at Subway, something I don't think I would have done before, with minimal anxiety. I also talked more then I ever have in my group therapy.
>
> Maybe I'm just having a good day, but for the first time in a long time I'm feeling a little hopeful!
> The side effects (dizziness, weakness, constipation, insomnia, lack of appetite, etc...) are starting to fade a bit, so I'm gonna see if my doc will bump me up to 90 MG, and hopefully, after a couple more weeks, I'll be feeling better then I have in years!
Posted by FredPotter on March 26, 2007, at 23:13:41
In reply to Holy ****! Nardil starting to work?, posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 21:11:42
Hey I hope it's kicking in (is that why you're called football?), It's about 2 weeks, which is on the early side but quite possible.
I get hypomania sometimes I think. Or perhpas it's just the relief and the optimism that accompanies it. I don't do any harm so why do we label it?
Fred
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 26, 2007, at 23:21:38
In reply to Re: Holy ****! Nardil starting to work? » football, posted by FredPotter on March 26, 2007, at 23:13:41
Hang in there buddy, and please continue to share your daily thoughts. I am one of many ppl here monitoring your progress, hoping to follow in your footsteps on Nardil.
Hey, how are your side effects? Any problems with food?
Posted by stargazer on March 26, 2007, at 23:36:35
In reply to Holy ****! Nardil starting to work?, posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 21:11:42
Good news, just take it slow and dont be too eager to up the dosage just yet. remember it's very easy to overshoot the threshold with any AD and I wouldn't want to jinx it especially since you're just starting to see some subtle changes. Let it develop a bit longer before you "kick" into action but your pdoc may feel otherwise. I know for myself, I get better responses on lower doses and less side effects too.
Michael will be thrilled to hear your news.
Stargazer
Posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 23:45:43
In reply to That's great to hear!!!!!!!! football, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 26, 2007, at 23:21:38
Side effects are still a pain in the *ss, but slowly decreasing (except for the sexual ones).
Zero problems with food, and as far as I'm concerned the diet is essentially a joke. Just stay away from a handful of things and you'll be completely fine.
Posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 23:52:13
In reply to Re: Holy ****! Nardil starting to work? » football, posted by Jedi on March 26, 2007, at 22:49:26
> Hi Football,
> Sure hope that Nardil is starting to work for you. When Nardil kicked in for me, I too would actually talk to the checker in the grocery store. Before Nardil my social anxiety was so bad I wouldn't even think about starting a conversation unless it was at work, in my area of expertise.
>
> Be careful of hypomania when the med first kicks in. It got me and actually felt so good after years of dysthymia and major depression that I wanted to hold on to it. Have someone close to you watch for the signs. Sometimes we don't recognize them in ourselves. Heck, I was giving away money and actually thought this was normal behaviour.
> Good Luck,
> Jedi
>
>
> "Hypomania: A condition similar to mania but less severe. The symptoms are similar with elevated mood, increased activity, decreased need for sleep, grandiosity, racing thoughts, and the like. However, hypomanic episodes differ in that they do not cause significant distress or impair one's work, family, or social life in an obvious way while manic episodes do.
>
> Hypomanic people tend to be unusually cheerful, have more than ample energy, and need little sleep. Hypomania is a pleasurable state. It may confer a heightened sense of creativity and power. However, hypomania can subtly impair a person's judgment. Too much confidence can conceal the consequences of decisions."
> MedicineNet.com
> http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=30745
>
>
>
> > I've been on 75 MG since the 15th with nothing to show for it but a few nasty side effects. However, today, I feel a little different. My depression is better then it's been for weeks and I think it might be starting to help with my anxiety. I started up a conversation with the woman working at Subway, something I don't think I would have done before, with minimal anxiety. I also talked more then I ever have in my group therapy.
> >
> > Maybe I'm just having a good day, but for the first time in a long time I'm feeling a little hopeful!
> > The side effects (dizziness, weakness, constipation, insomnia, lack of appetite, etc...) are starting to fade a bit, so I'm gonna see if my doc will bump me up to 90 MG, and hopefully, after a couple more weeks, I'll be feeling better then I have in years!
>
>Thanks for your concern, but I'm not at the stage where hypomania is a possibility. Though to be honest, it doesn't sound that bad and would be nice to have for a little while!
Posted by stargazer on March 26, 2007, at 23:58:53
In reply to Re: Holy ****! Nardil starting to work?, posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 23:52:13
Exactly, I never found the diet too difficult myself. I hate overripe bananas, who likes them anyway and anything fermented or aged, that sounds so gross to me. Better off not eating that stuff anyway, it can't be good for you. Lots of fresh fruits and vegetables is a healthier alternative to that old moldy food.
I'm sorry I couldn't help myself from commenting on the foods. Seriously the only thing I have to watch is cheese (I ate cream cheese and American) and lately I have developed a tast for sushi, not the raw type, but the California rolls with soy sauce and wasabi on it. Probably a no-no, right?
Stargazer
Posted by FredPotter on March 27, 2007, at 5:34:20
In reply to Re: Holy ****! Nardil starting to work?, posted by football on March 26, 2007, at 23:52:13
Hypomania is great. I actually think it's the relief of feeling normal again, unless you start behaving wrecklessly
Posted by FredPotter on March 28, 2007, at 18:45:08
In reply to That's great to hear!!!!!!!! football, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 26, 2007, at 23:21:38
Effexor w/d effects have largely abated after 2 weeks. One, crying at anything or nothing is most welcome. I love music again, especially the emotional sort at the moment as it frees up all the dammed up crying (Effexor numbing). Haven't had the courage to listen to Madam Butterfly yet though!
No effects from Nardil yet, but the anorgasmia I was expecting hasn't happened. I may be gaining weight though and that will exacerbate the diabetes. The diet's nothing much. Someone posted a more finely-tuned version of the diet, originally posted by -elizabeth a few years ago. Can anyone locate it? The standard warnings given by my Dr are *ss-covering and unecessarily swingeing. . NO CHEESE means no aged cheese (Vintage cheddar, blue cheese etc but some Mozzaella may not be safe). NO ALCOHOL means no Chianti or tap beer, unless you know the bartender and know he cleans his pipes out frequently. BREWER'S YEAST is the problem. I feel nervous about red wine but I drink a little white wine. The truly careful diet would have to say, "The only alcohol you can drink is spirits". Imagine the green flag that would be to a lot of people.
Thanks for your interest Michael. I'll keep you posted Fred
Posted by Jedi on March 28, 2007, at 20:54:44
In reply to Re: That's great to hear!!!!!!!! football » UgottaHaveHope, posted by FredPotter on March 28, 2007, at 18:45:08
Hi,
This post is so well done, it is in the Tips section. I've been using this short list for years with no problems. However, everyone is different. If you take the irreversible MAOIs, it is up to you to determine the level of risk you are comfortable with. You must be able to take your level of responsibility to another level. I know this is difficult when you are realy sick. Many doctors, pharmacists and even psychiatrists know very little about these medications.
Take care,
Jedi"MAOI diet short list
Posted by Elizabeth on August 17, 2001, at 13:43:12Hi. A couple of people have requested that I repost the dietary restrictions that I followed while taking MAOIs. Please don't take this as gospel; it's what worked for me and it's based on some fairly meticulous library research (I can provide a reading list for anyone who's interested). A lot of the "menus" that get handed out by pharmacies, hostpials, doctors, etc. are not very accurate because they are out of date and place extreme and unnecessary restrictions on what you can eat. This results in a number of problems. Many people are scared off by long, intimidating lists of restrictions. In other cases, a person will discover that s/he can "cheat" on some of the foods (the ones that really shouldn't be on the list) and will therefore take the entire list less seriously. There are some things that you definitely should avoid, but they are relatively few.
So, here it is -- a list of some things that I felt merited avoidance, and others that I felt were safe (and had no problems with, of course):
WINE is fine. Some people may get histamine-related headaches from it and think they are having a hypertensive episode when they are not.
BOTTLED BEERS are usually fine (American and Canadian ones are the best studied).
TAP BEER should be avoided.
Most AGED CHEESES are out. Of note, the mozzarella generally used on most pizzas has been found to be okay. So unless it's some weird exotic pizza with sharp cheeses (feta, cheddar, fontina) it should be okay to eat pizza. (In general, cheeses described as "sharp" are the most dangerous ones.) Ricotta cheese, cottage cheese, cream cheese, and "pasteurized process cheese food" (American cheese -- the cheesiest kind) are okay as well. In regard to the intermediately-aged cheeses, I personally had no problem with jack or brie in moderation. I would be careful if you're going to try this, though, and it's not something I'm willing to say is definitely safe.
OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS, such as milk, yogurt, and sour cream, are generally safe as long as they are fresh.
SOY FOODS are controversial: one sample of soy sauce was reported to have quite a lot of tyramine in it, but there aren't any documented interactions. My experience has been that a little bit of soy sauce is okay. I would avoid other soy products, such as soy milk and tofu. The Taiwanese dish called "stinky tofu" is probably right out. < g >
Similarly, SAUERKRAUT has been found to contain a large amount of tyramine in some analyses, but there aren't any reactions documented that were associated with sauerkraut.
PROTEIN-CONTAINING FOODS that have passed the expiration date or that may have been stored improperly should be avoided. Fresh milk, meat, etc. are okay. One exception that I make, just because there have been so many problems reported with it, is LIVER; it seems possible that the proteins in liver are especially readily broken down to tyramine (perhaps they include more tyrosine than other proteins do, or perhaps the bacteria that turn tyrosine into tyramine are fond of liver).
Certain AGED MEATS, such as salami, bologna, and some sausages, may be problematic. Err on the side of caution. Some telltale words to look for are "aged," "smoked," "air-dried," and "fermented."
PICKLED HERRING itself isn't a problem, just don't eat the brine (yuck!).
To many people's relief, CHOCOLATE is fine. (If my experience with carb cravings on phenelzine is any indication, it's fine in *huge* amounts!)
Some miscellaneous peculiar foods, such as FAVA BEAN PODS and BANANA PEELS, also cause problems. Shouldn't be a major issue for most people. Watch out for Middle Eastern cuisine, which sometimes contains fava beans. MISO SOUP and other Oriental soup stocks have also been reported to cause problems.
I hope that people find this helpful. As I said, I can provide a list of references if anyone is interested.
-elizabeth"
Posted by FredPotter on March 29, 2007, at 3:59:51
In reply to MAOI diet short list » FredPotter, posted by Jedi on March 28, 2007, at 20:54:44
Thanks Jedi That's the one. Anyone know what became of -elizabeth? She was so clever and wise. Probably pacing the wards on 72 hour shifts and doesn't have time for babble.
I find that very carefully one can take small amounts of cheese, red wine etc (NOT Chianti or banana skins) and watch out for the headache at the back of the head, racng pulse etc. This may not be good advice however.
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2007, at 17:49:08
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list » Jedi, posted by FredPotter on March 29, 2007, at 3:59:51
Fred I hear so many people mention Elizabeth what was her occupation a doctor? Love Phillipa
Posted by cerebus on March 29, 2007, at 19:05:10
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2007, at 17:49:08
Question? Do you have to stop if you are scheduled to have any surgery or dentistry. Thanks, keep going with all of your success. It is very rewarding. I may even retry Nardil. I only tried it for a week. I did experience some hypotension. That scared me, and I quit taking it.
This is the end of the thread.
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