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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alienatari on March 17, 2007, at 1:47:17
In reply to TD is evil after quiting seroquel after 1 year, posted by Jeroen on March 16, 2007, at 21:02:42
Try thorazine
I cant wait to go on geodon
> TD is evil after quiting seroquel after 1 year 400 mg
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> the TD was caused by Geodon ( an american schizophrenia medicine) as you all know i really think this med is a da nger to many people.... a SUDDEN DEATH warning on a USA drug advertised on new york streets explains itself, for schizophrenia treatment dont you think?
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> why would people go into therapy while they just can see an ad on TV, feeling bad? now on sale GEODON $340 for 60 pills! like VIAGRA pills $300 too from PFIZER...
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> i hope this sh*t gets banned soon or later and will not come into EU market at all, let it stay at a country based on money making like the abilify
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> did you know the next Abilify class medicine is from Europe, made in netherlands? i bet that wont be sh*t at all, like Abilify commercial sh*t
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> $350 for dystonia in a box, got a psychosis, just take an abilify
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> Bifeprunox will come in 2008, made by europe, with aa side effect profile simular to abilify for schizophrenia, low sedation med, i wonder if this is like Clozapine but in a new generation, i dun know ... ok so i am suffering now from excessive spasms and i am enjoying my anti depressant, otherwise i woudnt be typing so much lol
Posted by Jeroen on March 17, 2007, at 2:22:33
In reply to Re: TD is evil after quiting seroquel after 1 year, posted by alienatari on March 17, 2007, at 1:47:17
you sound like me before i started geodon and got TD
Posted by alienatari on March 17, 2007, at 3:26:16
In reply to you sound like me before i started geodon and got, posted by Jeroen on March 17, 2007, at 2:22:33
Dude I feel for ya. Im on Rispredal but been on most atypicals and typicals. Solian( its here in Australia but not in America I dont think) gave me TD that went away after 1 year so i wans lucky I guesls. antipsychotics can be pretty tough. I wish you feel better Jereon and I Pray that your TD goes away. Geodon is coming to Australia and my pdoc wants to put me on it because nothing else has worked. Dont know what to do...
If ya ever want to chat my emails spacedoutkid@gmail.com
Take care and peace
> you sound like me before i started geodon and got TD
>
>
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Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2007, at 9:29:05
In reply to Re: you sound like me before i started ))hugs bro, posted by alienatari on March 17, 2007, at 3:26:16
Chris a new friend that's great!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on March 17, 2007, at 9:34:05
In reply to Re: you sound like me before i started ))hugs bro, posted by alienatari on March 17, 2007, at 3:26:16
hi, if nothing works try Leponex
Clozapine, i have seen miracles on this, i havent used this myself
if you gonna do Geodon, the first sign of muscle spasm in your eyes , or else, if it is persistend like you have it every minute, then i'd say you have about 48 hours to stop the drug to get rid of the TD symptoms.... if you continue for 2 weeks with constant spasms then i guarantee you will get tardive dyskinesia
i recommend to take 40 mg and not 20 mg twicegood luck... but be carefull... very... very... very...
Posted by yxibow on March 17, 2007, at 11:46:58
In reply to hi, if nothing works try Leponex, posted by Jeroen on March 17, 2007, at 9:34:05
> hi, if nothing works try Leponex
> Clozapine, i have seen miracles on this, i havent used this myself
>
>
> if you gonna do Geodon, the first sign of muscle spasm in your eyes , or else, if it is persistend like you have it every minute, then i'd say you have about 48 hours to stop the drug to get rid of the TD symptoms.... if you continue for 2 weeks with constant spasms then i guarantee you will get tardive dyskinesia
>
>
> i recommend to take 40 mg and not 20 mg twice
>
> good luck... but be carefull... very... very... very...
TD means late. Tardive. Tardive Dyskinesia. If you develop something after 48 hours it is ID, Initial Dyskinesia and is almost certainly gone after withdrawal. Two weeks is not Tardive in any sense of the word and is beyond extremely rare for anything permanent -- certainly nothing massively permanent from a neuroleptic.
Posted by tessellated on March 21, 2007, at 18:35:51
In reply to Re: hi, if nothing works try Leponex » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on March 17, 2007, at 11:46:58
yes, your right tardive means late, if you have a movement disorder that does not take time to develop then its call EPS; of which TD is a subset.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrapyramidal
i've heard the same tardive=late lecture from lame pdocs.
its a family of disorders due to mesocortical dopaminergic pathways being "potentially" altered permanently.dopamine downregulation to me philosophically is not in my best interests. to be brutally honest, i believe they act as a neurochemical lobotomy. perhaps so do certain SSRI's. we don't know. regardless, the last thing i need is an inability for my autonomous nervous sytem to loose its interconnectivity w/my peripheral nervous system.
as a result of this fear, i've stopped most medications.
there is no science, only conjecture, and profit.extrapyramidal syptoms seem to occur via direct or indirect inhibition on the mesocortical dopaminergic system.
not something one would do unless...
> TD means late. Tardive. Tardive Dyskinesia. If you develop something after 48 hours it is ID, Initial Dyskinesia and is almost certainly gone after withdrawal. Two weeks is not Tardive in any sense of the word and is beyond extremely rare for anything permanent -- certainly nothing massively permanent from a neuroleptic.
>
Posted by yxibow on March 22, 2007, at 2:11:43
In reply to yx-td, another name for eps, posted by tessellated on March 21, 2007, at 18:35:51
> yes, your right tardive means late, if you have a movement disorder that does not take time to develop then its call EPS; of which TD is a subset.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrapyramidal
>
> i've heard the same tardive=late lecture from lame pdocs.
> its a family of disorders due to mesocortical dopaminergic pathways being "potentially" altered permanently.
Well the fact of the matter is that current studies of EPS and TD are indeed on a sliding scale, this is true. Tardive is almost always late and is not EPS. Even if TD does occur, more than 30% of the time caught by a competent psychopharmacologist, it disappears. Furthermore, the leading studies show that TD most often has to be mentioned and observed by an outsider. Yes -- initial awareness of a movement disorder is a sign that it is not TD. No, we don't know all about EPS and TD, but there are some experts who devote their livelihood to studying movement disorders, such as Messrs. Dr. and Dr. Wirshing.
It does a disservice and disinformation to those who suffer from illnesses that may require neuroleptics to group them as being lobotomized. And to group SSRIs, a completely category of medicine that has been studied since the early 1980s with neuroleptic lobotomization is absurd.
If you wish to stop medications, that is your choice. As is the choice of taking medications too, which should be one of informed consent.
Your autonomic nervous system can be activated without medication intervention. Many disorders such as panic and OCD activate fight or flight.
I'm not going to get into a discussion of profit -- lets all raid Canada's medicine chest. Sounds fine to me. Yes, its true, that a lot of medication discovery first starts with government or university labs that sell to pharmaceutical companies.
But like it or not, schizophreniform disorders, of which I do not suffer, are a greater than $2 billion burden on our system. And which is better, EPS, or suicide, harm to others, and harm to self?> dopamine downregulation to me philosophically is not in my best interests. to be brutally honest, i believe they act as a neurochemical lobotomy. perhaps so do certain SSRI's. we don't know. regardless, the last thing i need is an inability for my autonomous nervous sytem to loose its interconnectivity w/my peripheral nervous system.
>
> as a result of this fear, i've stopped most medications.Fear can conjure anxiety, and increase symptoms. But since the placebo effect can change the outcome of a medical trial up to 33%, it might just do well to discontinue medications.
I can't say I'm in a great place at the moment either. Fear and uncertainty has also led me to reduce medication load. But to describe it in such a crude fashion as above is not terribly civil to those such as myself who have to make unsettling decisions.
> there is no science, only conjecture, and profit.
>
> extrapyramidal syptoms seem to occur via direct or indirect inhibition on the mesocortical dopaminergic system.
>
> not something one would do unless...
>
> > TD means late. Tardive. Tardive Dyskinesia. If you develop something after 48 hours it is ID, Initial Dyskinesia and is almost certainly gone after withdrawal. Two weeks is not Tardive in any sense of the word and is beyond extremely rare for anything permanent -- certainly nothing massively permanent from a neuroleptic.
> >
>
>
Posted by 10derHeart on March 22, 2007, at 9:33:22
In reply to yx-td, another name for eps, posted by tessellated on March 21, 2007, at 18:35:51
> i've heard the same tardive=late lecture from lame pdocs.
> there is no science, only conjecture, and profit.Different points of view are fine, but in accordance with the civility guidelines, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, exaggerate or overgeneralize.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by 10derHeart on March 22, 2007, at 9:33:29
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps » tessellated, posted by yxibow on March 22, 2007, at 2:11:43
>But to describe it in such a crude fashion as above is not terribly civil to those such as myself
Different points of view are fine, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you think something in a post is uncivil, please don't state that on the boards. Please report it to Dr. Bob and the deputies by using the 'Notify the administrators' button at the bottom of each post.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by notfred on March 22, 2007, at 11:51:39
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps » tessellated, posted by yxibow on March 22, 2007, at 2:11:43
"But like it or not, schizophreniform disorders, of which I do not suffer, are a greater than $2 billion burden on our system. And which is better, EPS, or suicide, harm to others, and harm to self?"
(I agree w/yxibow)
I wonder how many people here actually know a person with schizophrenia, have a family member with schizophrenia or are a caregiver for a person with schizophrenia ?
Till you are I do not think you have enough info to make judgements about meds.
Posted by yxibow on March 22, 2007, at 13:28:36
In reply to Please be civil » yxibow, posted by 10derHeart on March 22, 2007, at 9:33:29
> >But to describe it in such a crude fashion as above is not terribly civil to those such as myself
>
> Different points of view are fine, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you think something in a post is uncivil, please don't state that on the boards. Please report it to Dr. Bob and the deputies by using the 'Notify the administrators' button at the bottom of each post.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
I haven't the faintest idea how I was not being civil. If we must know I am dealing with problems with Seroquel, which have been iterated with AIMS tests galore that are not TD but nontheless have distressed me over the years and I felt.... distressed.Anyhow. Life moves on.
> Respectfully,
> 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
>
>
Posted by Declan on March 22, 2007, at 21:46:16
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps, posted by notfred on March 22, 2007, at 11:51:39
>I wonder how many people here actually know a person with schizophrenia, have a family member with schizophrenia or are a caregiver for a person with schizophrenia<
I do. Couple of friends and a family member, for what the diagnosis is worth.
Posted by notfred on March 23, 2007, at 17:06:31
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps » notfred, posted by Declan on March 22, 2007, at 21:46:16
"I do. Couple of friends and a family member, for what the diagnosis is worth."
Hmm, my experience is more clear cut. Thought projection, disordered speech and behavior, catatonic at times. The meds bring their own issues but it is hard to get someone to eat when one of their delusions is that there is posion in their food; meds do a good job of damping down the positive symptoms.
Posted by Declan on March 23, 2007, at 19:29:07
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps, posted by notfred on March 23, 2007, at 17:06:31
The meds are not so good for the brain salad stuff though, IME.
Posted by Declan on March 23, 2007, at 19:43:54
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps » notfred, posted by Declan on March 23, 2007, at 19:29:07
Perhaps 'word salad' might be a better description.
Posted by notfred on March 23, 2007, at 20:12:42
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps » Declan, posted by Declan on March 23, 2007, at 19:43:54
I'm not taking the bait.
Posted by Declan on March 23, 2007, at 22:00:28
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps, posted by notfred on March 23, 2007, at 20:12:42
Bait?
Look, I knew someone with schizophrenia (or whatever) once who had the word salad thing.
It was completely uncontrolled by APs.Don't worry, I'll make myself scarce.
I've had enough too.
Posted by tessellated on March 24, 2007, at 13:48:53
In reply to Re: yx-td, another name for eps » notfred, posted by Declan on March 23, 2007, at 22:00:28
ok, sorry. i'm was expressing a strong personal belief in the questionable ethics to use of AP's/dopamine antagonists.
i've worked in public clinics with rooms full of boxes and boxes of AP's. and whole populations doing the "haldol shuffle".
i've also seen benefits to the medications.
personally i believe the dsm iv-r vastly over simplifies schizo/bipolar/borderline personality in regards to treatment. in my experiences in public clinics i've seen AP's used as population control.
i'm only simply argueing thematics from foucault's "madness and civilization", (not sure how to specify citation). the term dementia praecox came before schizophrenia and was even more general.
i think schizophrenia is an obsolete term that oversimplifies numerous etiologies for the sake of establishing a formula for doctor patient liability.
medicine is not a science, its a business.
i apologize for the jaded rant, i've just happen to feel passionate about these issues and the way in which our "american" society deals w/them.
Posted by yxibow on March 24, 2007, at 16:01:36
In reply to ethics of ap's, posted by tessellated on March 24, 2007, at 13:48:53
> ok, sorry. i'm was expressing a strong personal belief in the questionable ethics to use of AP's/dopamine antagonists.
They're certainly not perfect by any means but what else do we have for serious cases?
> i've worked in public clinics with rooms full of boxes and boxes of AP's. and whole populations doing the "haldol shuffle".
Shuffling and stereotypy can occur without medication as well.
But until we have better public health (in the US), we also have the "population shuffle." Intake followed by outtake or AMA, followed by repeated visits, no consistency, etc.
> i've also seen benefits to the medications.
Indeed for the most deeply afflicted, catatonic, patients it can bring them into some form of lucidity they never knew sitting on the pavements of cities with a sign.
> personally i believe the dsm iv-r vastly over simplifies schizo/bipolar/borderline personality in regards to treatment. in my experiences in public clinics i've seen AP's used as population control.Well perhaps we've seen or heard of different public clinics and the quality of care. First of all, "population control" violates medical ethics.
Yes, an ICD or DSM code may vastly oversimplify certain disorders, but that's all it is. The code, the term, isn't the most important thing. Its what you, the patient, as it is known, the consumer takes out of things.
> i'm only simply argueing thematics from foucault's "madness and civilization", (not sure how to specify citation). the term dementia praecox came before schizophrenia and was even more general.
>
> i think schizophrenia is an obsolete term that oversimplifies numerous etiologies for the sake of establishing a formula for doctor patient liability.
>
> medicine is not a science, its a business.
> i apologize for the jaded rant, i've just happen to feel passionate about these issues and the way in which our "american" society deals w/them.
You're fine to have a jaded rant but the dictionary definition of medicine is science, and that verges on gross generalization. I realize you're trying to describe the practice of medicine in certain countries but it can be interpreted also that medicine itself is not a science which is in the land of the absurd.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2007, at 3:29:33
In reply to Re: Please be civil » 10derHeart, posted by yxibow on March 22, 2007, at 13:28:36
> > > But to describe it in such a crude fashion as above is not terribly civil to those such as myself
>
> I haven't the faintest idea how I was not being civil.Thanks for asking. I think the idea was that describing someone else's description as "crude" could lead them to feel put down. Does that make sense?
Bob
Posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2007, at 5:45:16
In reply to Re: not being civil » yxibow, posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2007, at 3:29:33
the reason why suffer on meds and feel down more then up too sadly, its the christ way of saying thanks for help, no idea
but as i seen movies of people on GEODON on the internet, acting very depressed and not normal, it is a fact that some drugs are money making things and keep people sad,
but dont think i didnt found a treatment that works, that seroquel experiement only lasted a month and everybody looked at me and saw that i was cured
mmm, but then after a month the sh*t stopped working for unknown reasons.. i didnt change dosage, it simply made me psychotic instead of well so i could start my life,even my psychologist saw that i was changed and he was like silent for like 5 minutes
and he didnt even ask, how do you feel?
some (many) are bunch of *ssholes prescribing risperidone en geodon, i think those are mod drugs
Posted by yxibow on March 25, 2007, at 13:41:02
In reply to the reason why suffer on meds and feel down more t, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2007, at 5:45:16
> the reason why suffer on meds and feel down more then up too sadly, its the christ way of saying thanks for help, no idea
If you wish, not getting into a religion debate on the med board.
> but as i seen movies of people on GEODON on the internet, acting very depressed and not normal, it is a fact that some drugs are money making things and keep people sad,
..mmm..... I would take everything I see on the internet, especially YouTube with a grain of salt.
> but dont think i didnt found a treatment that works, that seroquel experiement only lasted a month and everybody looked at me and saw that i was cured
>
>
> mmm, but then after a month the sh*t stopped working for unknown reasons.. i didnt change dosage, it simply made me psychotic instead of well so i could start my life,
>
> even my psychologist saw that i was changed and he was like silent for like 5 minutes
>
> and he didnt even ask, how do you feel?
>
> some (many) are bunch of *ssholes prescribing risperidone en geodon, i think those are mod drugs
I'm not going to try to touch this more than some antipsychotics work better for some people than others. Yes, some doses of Risperdal can make -certain- people more psychotic instead of less, etc... everybody's experience on one of them is completely different.
The one thing I can say is I'm sorry you're not being given the respect you deserve in treatment for being heard -- but there will be a mixture that does work.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on March 28, 2007, at 13:46:19
In reply to Re: the reason why suffer on meds and feel down mo » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on March 25, 2007, at 13:41:02
I'm on geodon right now. 240mg split into 4 doses a day. I prefered the effects of seroquel, but it was making me transition from healthy to overweight to obese at an alarming rate.
So, why am I on "antipsychotics"? because I have symptoms. I have uncontrollable mood swings and believe it or not these "antipsychotics" are now approved for use for folks with bipolar disorder.
But why am I on antipsychotics? I've never been dx'd with bipolar or schizophrenia.
It's because I have symptoms. Things like feeling like my consciousness has been fragmented into a half-dozen pieces each with their own tormented voice and an inability to stop a movie of violent flashbacks and other products of a less-than-well mind. And if seroquel and geodon can make those intrusive thoughts and flashbacks more manageable, then I won't live the life of a terrorized recluse.
I have health insurance from the US government, but I do not seek treatment from public health providers.
I would just like to suggest that APsychotics should be thought of as mood stabilizers and in some cases antidepressants (i.e. seroquel). The unfortunate label of the drug as an "antipsychotic" suggests that I must be psychotic if I take it. That is simply not the case.
Don't we have enough stigma in this lifetime without attaching stigma to categories of drugs? Can we accept that each person on psychobabble has their own personal reasons for/against taking a particular drug, and that there is no drug that is inherently bad? Perhaps the match between person and drug is bad, but that doesn't make the drug itself evil. It just means that things didn't work out. We are lucky that there are so many options nowadays. So many drugs, so little time...
-Ll
Posted by Jeroen on March 28, 2007, at 14:25:35
In reply to Re: the reason why suffer on meds and feel down mo, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on March 28, 2007, at 13:46:19
hi, i hope that geodon will make you feel f*cking great!
but be carefull for TD symptoms
quit immediatelly as it is irreversible
This is the end of the thread.
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