Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by randermin on March 5, 2007, at 15:45:43
before I had been on effexor, I had a healthy dream-life, even with my sleep problems and depression. my dreams where rarely ever dysphoric, usually just very interesting and sometimes very epic and euphoric, these kind of dreams where importantto me. after going on effexor and stopping it later because of insomnia, my dreams are all "weak" and hard to remember, but they are also negative sometimes very dysphoric. whats more alarming is I never have those vivid good dreams anymore, which where always really thereaputic and positive. also since stopping the effexor I'm terminally unmotivated, all of my passions seem like they have been permanantly suppressed along with my dreams. anyway, I feel like I can't get my life back without getting my dream life back. what can reverse this? maybe tianeptine? I know posts about things like "the dream world" are maybe favored less over more concrete drug related medical jaron posts. but there is no other way I can describe this. any experiances or advice please, thanks -o
Posted by River1924 on March 5, 2007, at 16:20:24
In reply to getting dreams back, permanent damage?, posted by randermin on March 5, 2007, at 15:45:43
Interesting, I've never dreamed much. I never thought it might be a a side effect from taking meds over the years.
They say large doses of B vitamins (100mgs) help. Don't know if that is true.
Posted by Phillipa on March 5, 2007, at 19:36:14
In reply to Re: getting dreams back, permanent damage? » randermin, posted by River1924 on March 5, 2007, at 16:20:24
I love to dream. Love Phillipa ps no nightmares though
Posted by KayeBaby on March 6, 2007, at 14:19:45
In reply to getting dreams back, permanent damage?, posted by randermin on March 5, 2007, at 15:45:43
Hmmmm. I have had aa similar experience. Had epic dreams on effexor and very little after going off of it. I have been on ambien for awhile and do not dream on it. Before meds dreaming was a very active part of my life.
I started taking B6 recently, both versions of it. The P-5-P and the piridoxine. 33mg and 100mg respectively. Almost immediately my dream life took off. Fun, fun dreams like I used to have. I awaken with a smile.
Somewhere I read that recalling less than 2-3 pleasant dreams per week is indicative of a B6 deficiency and it seems that there is something to this. Just be sure to take the whole spectrum of B's as well.
Happy dreaming!
Kaye
Posted by randermin on March 7, 2007, at 15:36:15
In reply to getting dreams back, permanent damage?, posted by randermin on March 5, 2007, at 15:45:43
I really think that ssris have had some kind of persisting effect, Ive tried b vitamins with no result, but I want to fix what's broken rather than supplant it. any tianeptine users?
Posted by sregan on March 8, 2007, at 13:51:44
In reply to getting dreams back, permanent damage?, posted by randermin on March 5, 2007, at 15:45:43
Part of my treatment that has been critical is the restoration of normal sleep including dreams.
What has helped me tremendously is Flexeril (I assume Elavil/Amitriptyline would do similar as it's almost identical in structure). Problem is I cannot take it every night or I develop tolerance. I've settled for twice a week (Mon and Fri nights). I take 5 mg and sleep in on Sat. mornings.
Flexeril is one of the few drugs that is supposed to enhance Slow-Wave/Deep/Stage 3-4 Sleep. The AD Trazodone is also supposed to help, I've tried it and can report favorably although it doesn't help as much as the Flexeril for me.
Melatonin enhanced my dreaming life significantly when I first started taking it. I recommend buying capsules so you can control the dosage yourself. I would start with a 1/2 mg or 1/4 mg then work up. If you feel tired in the morning then back off.
Shawn
Posted by notfred on March 8, 2007, at 21:49:19
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by randermin on March 7, 2007, at 15:36:15
Dreaming and remembering your dreams are
two seperate things, I would not assume you are not dreaming just because you do not remember your dreams.
Posted by randermin on March 9, 2007, at 15:26:08
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by notfred on March 8, 2007, at 21:49:19
I do remember my dreams, and I am dreaming, just not as "strongly"
Posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 16:46:59
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by randermin on March 9, 2007, at 15:26:08
> I do remember my dreams, and I am dreaming, just not as "strongly"
>
>What do you gain from remembering them more strongly ?
I think being conserned about damage is very misplaced. Best we can tell dreams are just random
firings of neurons during REM sleep that our brain cobbles together into a story. I do not recall my dreams at all, I did when I was younger.Some people don't have any REM sleep and are fine,
sleep stages and the full reasons for sleep are poorly understood. There seems lots of differences
between individuals sleep patterns.
Posted by randermin on March 9, 2007, at 19:45:21
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 16:46:59
I think you're very misplaced
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2007, at 19:52:08
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by randermin on March 9, 2007, at 19:45:21
How many hours into sleep do dreams occurr. I love to dream. I've heard they help your mind go over your day. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 23:55:45
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by randermin on March 9, 2007, at 19:45:21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream
In 1977 J. Allan Hobson and Robert McCarley proposed a new theory that changed dream research, it challenged the previously held Freudian view of dreams as subconscious wishes to be interpreted. The activation synthesis theory asserts that the sensory experiences are fabricated by the cortex as a means of interpreting chaotic signals from the pons. They propose that in REM sleep, the ascending cholinergic PGO (ponto-geniculo-occipital) waves stimulate higher midbrain and forebrain cortical structures, producing rapid eye movements. The activated forebrain then synthesizes the dream out of this internally generated information. They assume that the same structures that induce REM sleep also generate sensory information.[6] Memory, attention and the other features lacking in the dream state are taken to depend on the neurotransmitters, norepinephrine and serotonin, which are present in reduced concentrations during REM sleep. This chemical change is hypothesized to produce a psychotic state, as well as a lack of orientation.
Posted by notfred on March 10, 2007, at 11:43:22
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by randermin on March 9, 2007, at 19:45:21
> I think you're very misplaced
You will catch more bees with honey, like me sharing
well established methods for dream recall.
Posted by Quintal on March 11, 2007, at 14:46:25
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by randermin on March 7, 2007, at 15:36:15
I've been taking tianeptine for a week now and I've noticed no real difference in my dreams - one bad dream a few days ago where I had bone cancer in my hip and was watching a live MRI scan of it talking to me, threatening and tormenting me using vulgar language, but apart from that things seem to be alright. I have had more trouble sleeping though, but melatonin 3-6mg seems to help with that a little.
Q
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 11, 2007, at 21:40:14
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 16:46:59
some societies consider the dream life to be of equal importance and relevance to that of the waking life
remembering dreams strongly is fascinating
Posted by FredPotter on March 11, 2007, at 22:43:52
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine? » randermin, posted by Quintal on March 11, 2007, at 14:46:25
I've read that REM sleep is depressed by SSRIs and by ECT which is why they're good for depression. Dreaming is tiring I suppose. So says "Human Givens". I think most people dream anxious dreams most of the time and we remember a dream if we awake in the middle of it, although sometimes I get very beautiful dreams
FRed
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 12, 2007, at 12:47:39
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by FredPotter on March 11, 2007, at 22:43:52
have you read Human Givens Fred?
i've recently had some horrible nightmares
might have been the tianeptine
when i took remeron i had highly structured quest-like dreams in which i never met my goal
i did not wake rested
Posted by FredPotter on March 12, 2007, at 16:41:23
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine?, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 12, 2007, at 12:47:39
Yes I've read it. Very opinionated. Don't believe their REM sleep idea. Dreams of being on a quest and never achieving my goal - most of my dreams are like this and always have been
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 18:19:06
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine? » elanor roosevelt, posted by FredPotter on March 12, 2007, at 16:41:23
In mine I'm always on a quest. Like having nursing dreams and can't find where my patients are and where their charts are. Scarey dreams. And now I find out lunesta causes nightmares someone sent me a link that it's horrible. Off last night and according the the pharmacist should only be prn and this two months will last for at least three days. I have had horrible dream. Love Phillipa
Posted by randermin on March 12, 2007, at 19:00:54
In reply to getting dreams back, permanent damage?, posted by randermin on March 5, 2007, at 15:45:43
notfred, I was just being facetious… no offense.
I did say I was remembering my dreams less, but that might have been a misleading thing to mention, if I don't take a benzo,
I can still remember my dreams completely and I know something is different in their content. The point is that the content
of my dreams has changed.What’s different now is they are all kind of cold, slightly dysphonic, just negative overall,
but at the same time not very intense or quest-like. To say that my dream recall is really the culprit and I just don't
realize that is pretty bold, to tell someone so easily that they are just mistaken about themselves, especially on such a subjective
internal matter. I know what you mean, but when I say my dream world has changed for the worse, I mean the substance,
to say its really just my waking perception is kind of cheap. I agree that brain chemistry affects subjective qualities of dreams
and their associated feelings, that's why I think ssris have changed something, because that chemical feeling in my dreams is different.
With that thematic element of my life (my dreams) dissolved, my waking life is a lot worse, I just don’t feel right.
Posted by randermin on March 12, 2007, at 22:50:21
In reply to Re: seriously any thoughts on tianeptine? » randermin, posted by Quintal on March 11, 2007, at 14:46:25
> I've been taking tianeptine for a week now and I've noticed no real difference in my dreams - one bad dream a few days ago where I had bone cancer in my hip and was watching a live MRI scan of it talking to me, threatening and tormenting me using vulgar language, but apart from that things seem to be alright. I have had more trouble sleeping though, but melatonin 3-6mg seems to help with that a little.
>
> Qhow's the tianeptine going? -o
This is the end of the thread.
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