![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 3, 2007, at 23:25:21
In reply to EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 3, 2007, at 22:35:59
Hmm Id say Im in Benzo / alcohole withdrawl a bit, its hard to tell when uve been depressed all the time. Ill stay off the downers for a month & if I dont get better (doubt the nardil will regain effficiency) Ill try Parnate high dose and try not to do myself in.
Sound like a plan?Its just really hard to get a job and have friends when your like this hey.
Posted by saturn on March 4, 2007, at 0:15:38
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 3, 2007, at 23:25:21
> Hmm Id say Im in Benzo / alcohole withdrawl a bit,
Hi FrequentFlyer. Can your doc help you with this? Perhaps a taper, if appropriate, would be better than cold turkey (if that's what you had in mind).
I can only imagine that benzo/alcohol withdrawal, even minor, could only work against you in regards to depression. Hang in there. I know it's easier said than done. Peace...Saturn.
Posted by linkadge on March 4, 2007, at 9:01:54
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone? » FrequentFryer, posted by saturn on March 4, 2007, at 0:15:38
I agree. Stuff pooping out can suck. Perhaps the addition of some alternative supplements could prolong the effects of your medication?
Do you visit the alternative board much? I heard of one guy who said that adding inositol to his Nardil brought back the full effect. His had pooped out after about a year, but now he's been on it for almost 5.
A number of other supplements can potentiate antiddeprssant response, and may be worth a try.
How is your sleep on parnate? For some people, I think poop out is a manifestation of MAOI induced sleep cycle disruption, which can affect hormone release.
Not sure what to say. Don't throw in the towel, most people can find something that works by changing things up a bit. If high dose single-agent doesn't work, you might try low a low dose multiagent strategy.
Linkadge
Posted by Crazy Horse on March 4, 2007, at 10:32:43
In reply to EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 3, 2007, at 22:35:59
> Every combo and med Ive tried poops out?
> Has anyone found a stable cure?
> This is just crazy, Im thinking of going of Nardil and switch to high dose Parnate but I don't really see the point.
> Im about ready to give up on drugs and do myself in.
> How long do you have to wait going off Nardil 2 Parnate (the full two weeks) or just one.
> If it was slight (small) Alcohole benzo abuse causing my poop out (highly unlikley) Nardil should regain efficiancy after about 2 weeks yeah?
> Or should I wait 4 before switching? Do ya reckon?
>
> RegardsI have to change meds about every 5-6 months due to poop-out. I think what really happens is our bodies develop toterance to these meds, and they no longer have an effect on us. The question is, why doesn't this happen to EVERYBODY? Some people go 20yrs or more on Parnate and Nardil, i want to be one of those people.
-Monte
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 10:34:54
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone? » FrequentFryer, posted by Crazy Horse on March 4, 2007, at 10:32:43
What happens when the big guns poop out? The nardil and parnate then what? Love Phillipa
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 4, 2007, at 11:42:46
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 10:34:54
> What happens when the big guns poop out? The nardil and parnate then what? Love Phillipa
Based on what I've read about others on this board, there are probably 20 or 30 things you can, ranging from increasing your doses of Nardil or Parnate, mixing them with a TCA (SLS) or even try countless other combinations. It is truly amazing how many people find some relief in such different combos, but hey, every med affects everybody differently.
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 19:36:23
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyo » Phillipa, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 4, 2007, at 11:42:46
Where are the people finding these knowledgeable docs that are willing to try them or figure them out? Love Phillipa ps I'm not smart enough myself
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:38:02
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by linkadge on March 4, 2007, at 9:01:54
Yeah sleep is a big thing, Ive never had a dream on Nardil and sometimes its like Im half awake half asleep, like it seems like Im awake all night but the time goes in a few hours.
Nardil messes with REM for sure.
But on Parnate I get random tiredness attacks and need to sleep during the day 2 or 3 times, That could have been cos of the Alcohol though actually.
Anyways I think I will stick to my plan.> I agree. Stuff pooping out can suck. Perhaps the addition of some alternative supplements could prolong the effects of your medication?
>
> Do you visit the alternative board much? I heard of one guy who said that adding inositol to his Nardil brought back the full effect. His had pooped out after about a year, but now he's been on it for almost 5.
>
> A number of other supplements can potentiate antiddeprssant response, and may be worth a try.
>
> How is your sleep on parnate? For some people, I think poop out is a manifestation of MAOI induced sleep cycle disruption, which can affect hormone release.
>
> Not sure what to say. Don't throw in the towel, most people can find something that works by changing things up a bit. If high dose single-agent doesn't work, you might try low a low dose multiagent strategy.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:41:44
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone? » FrequentFryer, posted by Crazy Horse on March 4, 2007, at 10:32:43
Yep thats what I reckon an am winging about, These anti-D's arn't much different from street drugs to me, (little bit better) But better then nothing I guess, Maybe I should give psychotherapy more of a chance but I have about as much faith in that as the meds.
> > Every combo and med Ive tried poops out?
> > Has anyone found a stable cure?
> > This is just crazy, Im thinking of going of Nardil and switch to high dose Parnate but I don't really see the point.
> > Im about ready to give up on drugs and do myself in.
> > How long do you have to wait going off Nardil 2 Parnate (the full two weeks) or just one.
> > If it was slight (small) Alcohole benzo abuse causing my poop out (highly unlikley) Nardil should regain efficiancy after about 2 weeks yeah?
> > Or should I wait 4 before switching? Do ya reckon?
> >
> > Regards
>
> I have to change meds about every 5-6 months due to poop-out. I think what really happens is our bodies develop toterance to these meds, and they no longer have an effect on us. The question is, why doesn't this happen to EVERYBODY? Some people go 20yrs or more on Parnate and Nardil, i want to be one of those people.
>
> -Monte
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:47:13
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 10:34:54
Then I come on Psyco-Babble and have a winge like now. Hehehe ahh well I know theres nothing you gus can do. Ill stick to my plan, Probably alternate Parnate & Nardil.
This gives me something to do in the mourning though and its good to know there are people out there like me.> What happens when the big guns poop out? The nardil and parnate then what? Love Phillipa
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:50:32
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyo » Phillipa, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 4, 2007, at 11:42:46
I know Ive tried most augmenting agents though.
might try Lamictal if its available in Australia> > What happens when the big guns poop out? The nardil and parnate then what? Love Phillipa
>
> Based on what I've read about others on this board, there are probably 20 or 30 things you can, ranging from increasing your doses of Nardil or Parnate, mixing them with a TCA (SLS) or even try countless other combinations. It is truly amazing how many people find some relief in such different combos, but hey, every med affects everybody differently.
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 22:51:55
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone? » Phillipa, posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:47:13
You can't alternate them and you won't you must decide between the two. I will e-maill willee and see if he's up or will respond to you in the am okay? Love Phillipa
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:55:23
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyo » UgottaHaveHope, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 19:36:23
Yeah and Im loosing faith / effort.
Dr-Bob tips recomends ummm some kind of opiate antagonist called Naltrexone, all my psych's & docs laugh at that and say "arrr no I dont think so, we dont do that in Australia".> Where are the people finding these knowledgeable docs that are willing to try them or figure them out? Love Phillipa ps I'm not smart enough myself
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 23:00:27
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone? » FrequentFryer, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2007, at 22:51:55
Well I do mean get the Nardil or Parnate out of my system before taking the other.
> You can't alternate them and you won't you must decide between the two. I will e-maill willee and see if he's up or will respond to you in the am okay? Love Phillipa
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 23:03:41
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 23:00:27
Thanks everyone!
I was just wondering if anyone has actually had poop out with all meds and actually found a solid solution.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 5, 2007, at 1:11:48
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyo » UgottaHaveHope, posted by FrequentFryer on March 4, 2007, at 22:50:32
Just do a search and look at all the combos that SLS has tried. Dont ever give up. There are always new combinations to try.
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 5, 2007, at 5:12:36
In reply to Re: There are countless combinations left to try, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 5, 2007, at 1:11:48
I know Ive read em all, its allot of work & money going doctor shopping & seeing psych's that wanna hear your life story rather then perscribe you sometimes contradictive drugs. Especially in Australia.
> Just do a search and look at all the combos that SLS has tried. Dont ever give up. There are always new combinations to try.
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 5, 2007, at 5:32:08
In reply to EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 3, 2007, at 22:35:59
Actually Im getting off this Nardil ASAP I decided.
Im fairly serious on bodybuilding and my natural metabolism alone makes me gain weight like all hell so Im gonna go no anti-d's for a while then maybe try and get some kind of bupropion combo happening.
Bupropion and Klonopin would do the trick but I dunno, benzo tollerance is bad but MAOI tollerance is bad to. I dunno.
I reckon Parnate would make me week and sedated to, it did last time but possibly sedated because of alcohole & no sleep.
Arr theres to many options.
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 5, 2007, at 6:17:28
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 5, 2007, at 5:32:08
Actually Im probably going to need parnate aswell. even if it dose make me week.
Posted by willyee on March 5, 2007, at 7:49:06
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 5, 2007, at 6:17:28
> Actually Im probably going to need parnate aswell. even if it dose make me week.
You cant take this as salt since im obvious not a doc,but i thought of the nardil switch,and lol like a clown i kept going back and fourth,...."oh no i cant do this nardil thing,let me just stay on parnate keep working with it,.....then "ill never get anywhere without change,let me go with nardil,so between the back and fourth i definatly was on them at the same time.
The only things i could say as just a user,are~A~ I dont believe much of a washout is needed,definatly not two weeks,possably a few days,less if its parnate going to nardil than vice versa,as parnate is actualy considered by some to in facet be a REVERSABLE maois and not a IR REVERSABLE one such as nardil definatly is.
~b~ Even if the two are used without washout,or toghter for any weird reason,i always state my belief is maois are most dangerous upon actual dose time,and hour after or so.This means never try to actualy take BOTH togther concomintly in a single dose,for example i can tolerate very high amounts of spread out parnate,very high through the day,however i have a firm limit on my highest single dose of the moment,i.e 15 spread out in 20 mg al day,im fine,....60 mg only in a day BUT all at once can bring me great harm.
~c~ I also lift,and although ur right the fatigue of parnate is rough,i also notice that parnate i believe affects gh,i cant confirm this,but have heard liq deprenyl,mao also,does,and i believe it to be true.Best thing is to get home weights,so u can lift at home easly even if its minor lifts and not full blown sessions.My curl is my greatest achbievment,a little tip i have never seen mentioned but learned it from fatique,trying to one arm a day,rather than a barbell curl or alternating dumbell curls,choose the arm,and just kill it,u curled it am,ok later just grab a lighter dumbell attack it again,just totaly destroy that arm all day,even if a single set out of no where only,remeber muscles like the brain respond best when shocked,routines are never good for growth.
JUST DONT FORGET THE OTHER ARM THE NEXT DAY LOL.
Muscles are just that,strong,they wont break,i dont believe in the whole let it rest theory,itll find its time to rest and repair,ur job is to make it need that repair,pick a arm and blast it to hell,even if u have only enough energy in midday for a single set,make that set count.
Anyway think of it also as,yess parnate randomly saps energy,but untreated depression sure doesent leave a lot of motivation or energy either to workout.
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 6, 2007, at 0:48:01
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by willyee on March 5, 2007, at 7:49:06
Yeah I definatly only do one muscle group a workout aswell so I can bust em more, every day of the week.
Im switching from Nardil to Parnate though so yeah 3 day washout should be ok to be on the safe side.
The fatigue was so bad for me on Parnate before though I had to randomly nap during the day, But I think that was because of alcohole & no proper sleep at night, Bupropion augmented could get rid of some fatigue though and seroquel at night for a good nights sleep + no alcohol during the week.
What are you currently taking Willyee?
I think most Anti-d's stuff up your strength except maybe bupropion, (which did nothing for me.)
> > Actually Im probably going to need parnate aswell. even if it dose make me week.
>
> You cant take this as salt since im obvious not a doc,but i thought of the nardil switch,and lol like a clown i kept going back and fourth,...."oh no i cant do this nardil thing,let me just stay on parnate keep working with it,.....then "ill never get anywhere without change,let me go with nardil,so between the back and fourth i definatly was on them at the same time.
>
>
> The only things i could say as just a user,are
>
> ~A~ I dont believe much of a washout is needed,definatly not two weeks,possably a few days,less if its parnate going to nardil than vice versa,as parnate is actualy considered by some to in facet be a REVERSABLE maois and not a IR REVERSABLE one such as nardil definatly is.
>
> ~b~ Even if the two are used without washout,or toghter for any weird reason,i always state my belief is maois are most dangerous upon actual dose time,and hour after or so.This means never try to actualy take BOTH togther concomintly in a single dose,for example i can tolerate very high amounts of spread out parnate,very high through the day,however i have a firm limit on my highest single dose of the moment,i.e 15 spread out in 20 mg al day,im fine,....60 mg only in a day BUT all at once can bring me great harm.
>
>
> ~c~ I also lift,and although ur right the fatigue of parnate is rough,i also notice that parnate i believe affects gh,i cant confirm this,but have heard liq deprenyl,mao also,does,and i believe it to be true.Best thing is to get home weights,so u can lift at home easly even if its minor lifts and not full blown sessions.
>
> My curl is my greatest achbievment,a little tip i have never seen mentioned but learned it from fatique,trying to one arm a day,rather than a barbell curl or alternating dumbell curls,choose the arm,and just kill it,u curled it am,ok later just grab a lighter dumbell attack it again,just totaly destroy that arm all day,even if a single set out of no where only,remeber muscles like the brain respond best when shocked,routines are never good for growth.
>
> JUST DONT FORGET THE OTHER ARM THE NEXT DAY LOL.
>
> Muscles are just that,strong,they wont break,i dont believe in the whole let it rest theory,itll find its time to rest and repair,ur job is to make it need that repair,pick a arm and blast it to hell,even if u have only enough energy in midday for a single set,make that set count.
>
>
> Anyway think of it also as,yess parnate randomly saps energy,but untreated depression sure doesent leave a lot of motivation or energy either to workout.
>
>
Posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:21:54
In reply to EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 3, 2007, at 22:35:59
It seems like the brain genes search for its default setting, even if it's wrong.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on March 7, 2007, at 10:26:08
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by FrequentFryer on March 5, 2007, at 5:32:08
How long have you been on Nardil? Did you get any positive effects? What dosage were you taking? How much weight gain did it cause? Do you think that was because Nardil affected your metabolism or gave you carb cravings? Did you have any other negative side effects?
And finally, since I am dealing with anxiety, did Nardil have any effect on your anxiety? Thanks, Michael
Posted by willyee on March 7, 2007, at 19:48:46
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone? » willyee, posted by FrequentFryer on March 6, 2007, at 0:48:01
Currently i take parnate,but with my doc moved and a doc i now cant understand,im basicaly without one and just trying to stay above waters,but in all honesty docs never really did much for me anyway,not saying they all are this way,just in my area seemed to be.
Anyway i take parnate as my primary foundation drug,ranfe from 80 mg to 100 mg daily.
Then depending on my needs ill use as follows...
.....
To fight off parnate fatigue,i find pure caffiene tabs still better than anything else,no interaction with parnate for me either.This is also a big part of stacks used by lifters anyway.If anxiety is comming on strong ill use klonopin,and try to stary with the smallest dose possable,its believed by docs i underuse it,this is about the only sensable thing ive heard from them,that im not living up to the fact my anxiety is a hard root of my problem.
Nuerontion i use either to aid klonopin for anxiety,or sometimes for these bouts of anger ive been having latly,but im really iffy here,i cant even be sure if the drug in question is the culprit itself,but for the time being im using it,but nuerontion is iffy for me sometimes i swear by it,others i suspect it,i just dont know.
Thats about it,as if it werent enough.I also use body building supplement i wont mention here,but i will say its natural and definatly not steroids of any kind.
> Yeah I definatly only do one muscle group a workout aswell so I can bust em more, every day of the week.
> Im switching from Nardil to Parnate though so yeah 3 day washout should be ok to be on the safe side.
> The fatigue was so bad for me on Parnate before though I had to randomly nap during the day, But I think that was because of alcohole & no proper sleep at night, Bupropion augmented could get rid of some fatigue though and seroquel at night for a good nights sleep + no alcohol during the week.
> What are you currently taking Willyee?
> I think most Anti-d's stuff up your strength except maybe bupropion, (which did nothing for me.)
>
>
> > > Actually Im probably going to need parnate aswell. even if it dose make me week.
> >
> > You cant take this as salt since im obvious not a doc,but i thought of the nardil switch,and lol like a clown i kept going back and fourth,...."oh no i cant do this nardil thing,let me just stay on parnate keep working with it,.....then "ill never get anywhere without change,let me go with nardil,so between the back and fourth i definatly was on them at the same time.
> >
> >
> > The only things i could say as just a user,are
> >
> > ~A~ I dont believe much of a washout is needed,definatly not two weeks,possably a few days,less if its parnate going to nardil than vice versa,as parnate is actualy considered by some to in facet be a REVERSABLE maois and not a IR REVERSABLE one such as nardil definatly is.
> >
> > ~b~ Even if the two are used without washout,or toghter for any weird reason,i always state my belief is maois are most dangerous upon actual dose time,and hour after or so.This means never try to actualy take BOTH togther concomintly in a single dose,for example i can tolerate very high amounts of spread out parnate,very high through the day,however i have a firm limit on my highest single dose of the moment,i.e 15 spread out in 20 mg al day,im fine,....60 mg only in a day BUT all at once can bring me great harm.
> >
> >
> > ~c~ I also lift,and although ur right the fatigue of parnate is rough,i also notice that parnate i believe affects gh,i cant confirm this,but have heard liq deprenyl,mao also,does,and i believe it to be true.Best thing is to get home weights,so u can lift at home easly even if its minor lifts and not full blown sessions.
> >
> > My curl is my greatest achbievment,a little tip i have never seen mentioned but learned it from fatique,trying to one arm a day,rather than a barbell curl or alternating dumbell curls,choose the arm,and just kill it,u curled it am,ok later just grab a lighter dumbell attack it again,just totaly destroy that arm all day,even if a single set out of no where only,remeber muscles like the brain respond best when shocked,routines are never good for growth.
> >
> > JUST DONT FORGET THE OTHER ARM THE NEXT DAY LOL.
> >
> > Muscles are just that,strong,they wont break,i dont believe in the whole let it rest theory,itll find its time to rest and repair,ur job is to make it need that repair,pick a arm and blast it to hell,even if u have only enough energy in midday for a single set,make that set count.
> >
> >
> > Anyway think of it also as,yess parnate randomly saps energy,but untreated depression sure doesent leave a lot of motivation or energy either to workout.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by FrequentFryer on March 8, 2007, at 15:08:28
In reply to Re: EVERYTHING POOPS OUT! sls, ace, linkadge, anyone?, posted by willyee on March 7, 2007, at 19:48:46
Thanks All
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.