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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by ronaldo on February 9, 2007, at 13:15:31
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 12:31:35
Good Luck! Phillipa. I hope your plan works out and when you go back I hope everything tastes just as sweet.
ronaldo
Posted by kaleidoscope on February 9, 2007, at 14:33:05
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 11:58:00
Hi Jan
>If fighting with my husband they don't work. If all is calm they do.
If all is calm you are much more likely to feel calm! I don't think it is the Valium which makes you calm in these situations, it's simply natural that you would feel calmer. I would resist the tendency to assume that anytime you feel calm it's because the Valium is 'working', you would probably feel equally calm if you had tapered off it.
Tapering off the Valium would reduce your tolerance to it, allowing to to take it PRN with greater effect. I think this would be useful.
Take care
K
Posted by laima on February 9, 2007, at 15:42:42
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 12:31:35
Good luck Phillipa! And as they say, a person's own motivation is a major factor in detox off benzos (if you go that way)- and then if you decide to go back on- they'd work again! Or maybe you'd even find the valium was aggrevating you, as clonazapam apparently turned out to be aggrevating me. (I would never have believed it.) Who knows? So in any case, seems you stand to gain in a number of ways- worth a try?One thought about the atypical antipsychotics- I myself didn't end up with daibetes or any serious complications, perhaps because I only used a very low dose, for very short time. By the time time was up, I was plenty motivated to cut the zyprexa, and it wasn't a problem. I just readjusted to sleeping lighter as opposed to in a seriously knocked-out feeling way. (Which was nice for awhile.) Perhaps like benzos, it depends on a lot of factors, like length of use and amounts. Yes, weight gain, but to be fair, I was faced with an awful lot of very tasty holiday food during that time period, too- and the weight's coming off. And...as special bonus, those extra trips to the gym, motivated by the weight gain, seem to be helping my mood.
It seems highly unlikely you'd risk any seizures if you tapered, too. My understanding is that the risk is mostly for people who quit suddenly, cold--and not even all of them end up with any seizure. Maybe you could cross that off the list of things to worry about.
In any case, sounds like there could be much to gain from such a break. I wish you best of luck with your decision. And sure wish a lot of other meds could regain efficacy they way benzos can!
> You know since I've done it in the past on my own I will just quit them and detox on my own. And BTW when I went off them before they worked exactly the same when I went back on them. So that's my plan. Love Phillipa ps I am going to prove to myself that seizures don't happen to everyone. First time I was told I would seize but didn't as laima said everyones chemistry is different. Heck if it wasn't we'd all be on the same meds.
Posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 19:29:38
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » Phillipa, posted by laima on February 9, 2007, at 15:42:42
Laima really strange as I eat a lot of chocolate which contains theophylline and this reduces the effects of valium according to your links, also I have noticed that in the two years I have been back on valium from xanax that after the l0 years or so off it the old ahhh that's nices relaxing feeling didn't return. Also noticed that when I take the wake-up dose it doesn't put me back to sleep. But if I want to sleep 2 motrin let me sleep better. So maybe benzos don't work for me anymore. So what's a substitute if they don't? If the ad's don't work? Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on February 9, 2007, at 19:41:19
In reply to Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2007, at 12:16:16
I find it best to not make med changes based on just a few days of not doing well. I do bounce back, most times but if I continue to do poorly for weeks then something needs to change.
Posted by yxibow on February 9, 2007, at 21:07:23
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » laima, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 19:29:38
> Laima really strange as I eat a lot of chocolate which contains theophylline and this reduces the effects of valium according to your links, also I have noticed that in the two years I have been back on valium from xanax that after the l0 years or so off it the old ahhh that's nices relaxing feeling didn't return. Also noticed that when I take the wake-up dose it doesn't put me back to sleep. But if I want to sleep 2 motrin let me sleep better. So maybe benzos don't work for me anymore. So what's a substitute if they don't? If the ad's don't work? Love Phillipa
It takes time for the washout to work if you want it to. Also, I've noticed that just about every new psychotropic I've taken, has given an "aah" once. Don't ask me why, but somehow the "aah" at the receptor for drug X, has a one-time life. Doesn't mean that it isn't doing its work, but the euphoria is gone. The first time I took Ambien it was like a psychadelic trip, I felt this warmth and a sort of gentle voice said come, come to sleep (not really a voice, but anyhow). Never happens again. But it still provides some sleep relief.
Euphoria is nice, but it isn't a necessity of psychotropic treatment -- in other words, it doesn't mean it isn't working.
Posted by laima on February 9, 2007, at 21:17:58
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » laima, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 19:29:38
Oh, I do think they'll work for you again! I get the impression they are different from antidepressents which poop out, that way. In the short term, despite their controversy and side effects, it does seem that the atypical antipsychotics can alleviate anxiety. I've also had some decent success with some different supplements at times, including theanine, valerian, kava, even melatonin- but don't know too much about exactly which ones are best. Someone on the alternative board might know more. Some people say Benedryl helps- makes me hyper though. What about Buspar? I don't know much about it, other than it's supposed to be for anxiety, but isn't like benzos.
That is really strange and surprising to hear about the chocolate though! Wonder what would happen if you experimented to cut down on chocolate? I wonder how much it actually affects the valium. Weird.
I've noticed motrin makes me sleepy, too. But I can't use it so well anymore, it upsets my stomache- all of those NSAIDS do.
> Laima really strange as I eat a lot of chocolate which contains theophylline and this reduces the effects of valium according to your links, also I have noticed that in the two years I have been back on valium from xanax that after the l0 years or so off it the old ahhh that's nices relaxing feeling didn't return. Also noticed that when I take the wake-up dose it doesn't put me back to sleep. But if I want to sleep 2 motrin let me sleep better. So maybe benzos don't work for me anymore. So what's a substitute if they don't? If the ad's don't work? Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on February 9, 2007, at 21:58:44
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » Phillipa, posted by laima on February 9, 2007, at 21:17:58
Phillipa, I have a book which my mom gave me that I thumb through time to time and find helpful. It goes into detail about supplements, excersises, therapies, food- anything and everything about anxiety which isn't medication. As you'd guess from the title, the author isn't a benzo fan, though he does say he prescribes them sometimes. Still, despite his stance, I do think a lot of his information is useful and definately helpful- even in addition to benzos! So, it's not an absolutely perfect book, but still has lots and lots of good parts."What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Anxiety, Phobias & Panic Attacks"
Posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 22:03:09
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa, posted by laima on February 9, 2007, at 21:58:44
Thanks laima I'll check the library and see if they have it. Love Phillipa
Posted by resident9997 on February 10, 2007, at 5:19:00
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa » laima, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 22:03:09
Dear Philippa,
My heart goes out to you. Quitting benzo's isn't the nicest thing to do, but you probably end up feeling so much better.
Long term gratification instead instant statisfaction.
This book might be helpful when detoxing
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569750742/ref=wl_it_dp/105-0613217-5303657?ie=UTF8&coliid=I24FWCU0K02DCK&colid=3S820QOD6BUBK
Love, A
Posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2007, at 12:29:48
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa, posted by resident9997 on February 10, 2007, at 5:19:00
People are e-mailing me that don't post to go up on the valium as lmg of klonopin equals so much less valium. Now I'm really getting confused. As I cut out five mg last night. And with the .5 of xanax and lunesta 3mg. Am I killing myself? Love Phillipa
Posted by Vale on February 10, 2007, at 13:10:44
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa, posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2007, at 12:29:48
Hi Philippa,
No, you're not killing yourself, they are, as has been previously mentioned in these posts,of very low toxicity. The problem is, in your case I believe, that you've been on them for a very long time. Two options are available in my view. Either you start a very very careful and gradual reduction over the next few years, adding on an anti-anxiety type A.D. almost imediatly. Or you simply continue, accepting that there will be good days and bad days,like there is with everyone, med users or not, and even considering augmenting the dose slightly, or adding on( on the bad days) small doses of natural things that are known to enhance benzo sedative actions, like Valeriana, Kava, and heck, why not a small glass of red wine.( occasionaly) And while I'm at it, don't argue with the hubbie, remember the smart one gives in first!And finally, I'd like to express my appreciation of your continued support to the many troubled souls that post their worries on this site.
Very best wishes
Vale
Posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2007, at 19:06:31
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa, posted by Vale on February 10, 2007, at 13:10:44
Vale thank-you so much for saying that. And do you have a recommendation of an antianxiety ad? As most rev me up. Thanks Love Phillipa
Posted by Sebastian on February 11, 2007, at 14:21:13
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by dbc on February 8, 2007, at 12:55:10
Thats what I say. Take a break once in a while. You will miss it and feel a whole lot better when you start it again.
Posted by valene on February 11, 2007, at 17:54:03
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa, posted by Vale on February 10, 2007, at 13:10:44
I also would be interested in what is considered to be an anti-anxiety antidepressant? As Phillipa and I are both long term benzo people, and we are about the same age. I am looking for an A/D to possibly reduce my benzo (xanax). A pdoc recommended Lexapro but I am not liking the things I read on pbabble, doesn't seem to be anti-anxiety?
Thanks, anyone who has input,
Val> Hi Philippa,
> No, you're not killing yourself, they are, as has been previously mentioned in these posts,of very low toxicity. The problem is, in your case I believe, that you've been on them for a very long time. Two options are available in my view. Either you start a very very careful and gradual reduction over the next few years, adding on an anti-anxiety type A.D. almost imediatly. Or you simply continue, accepting that there will be good days and bad days,like there is with everyone, med users or not, and even considering augmenting the dose slightly, or adding on( on the bad days) small doses of natural things that are known to enhance benzo sedative actions, like Valeriana, Kava, and heck, why not a small glass of red wine.( occasionaly) And while I'm at it, don't argue with the hubbie, remember the smart one gives in first!
>
> And finally, I'd like to express my appreciation of your continued support to the many troubled souls that post their worries on this site.
>
> Very best wishes
>
> Vale
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Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2007, at 18:36:02
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa » Vale, posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2007, at 19:06:31
Vale please come back and let me and Valene know which ad's are anti anxiety. Please!!!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by Fivefires on February 11, 2007, at 19:53:43
In reply to Re:Hope ))Phillippa, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2007, at 18:36:02
Yeah ... u2 w/ names that are alike (hmmm) .. I'm thinkin' the SNRIs .. and, if that's all there is there is, might wanna' change subject to 'HOPELESS HOPELESS HOPELESS' sung by the psycho-babble choir for your anti-entertainment endjoymoment.(?)
ImHortinandFerstated(?), 5f
p.s.: I am backing away from the pute. Soon. Real soon. Okay, 1 .. 2 .. I'm almost gone .. wait, 1, ... Oh sh*t! Myweekendsuckend! I'm goin' to my corner!
Posted by Fivefires on February 12, 2007, at 16:08:18
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » Fivefires, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 12:24:04
I've been 'so out of it' everyone, I'm following up P's post in the middle of thread.
I am just like P. Anxiety is my the definition of myself. Once I learned that someone I loved could hurt me, I had a panic attack, and I've had anxiety ever since. My folks took me to an ER and gave me a benzo and I did wonderful. But then I saw a P and he said I needed an AD too, and I made anxiety accelerate. Twenty years +- later benzos are all that work for me.
Docs won't treat me w/ a 'stand alone benzo'.
It's like u must be on an AD, then we'll allow benzo.
(So, currently I've begun Lexapro and I'm listless and groggy all day, and have zombieitis and 'headaches'. A lot of ADs have caused headaches .. maybe something to do w/ CNS and my C2-3, 3-4, 4-5 injury.
Yes Lexapro is helping w/ anxiety, because I don't feel a damn thing'! Is that the intention of treatment? I wasn't causing anyone any trouble; I don't need to be 'sedated' so as not to harm self, another, or made anyone lift a finger to help me!
And, then I hear 'an antipsychotic might help' my anxiety. But, I've been on a couple and gotten really sick ... mostly headaches.
(Can I throw this in here? What is a psychotic episode at its smallest? Can it be something so small that one can almost overlook it?)
If the intention is to put me in a state 'I feel nothing .. no happiness, no sadness, no orgasmic ability, NO ANXIETY ... well then ADs work for anxiety. But, if the intention is to help me become a functioning person in society w/ the ability to have human emotions, ADs have never done that for me (w/ the exception of a couple stints of E-XR or Prozac and a very short lived reaction to Zoloft. I've d.c.'d E-XR quite a few times because fear high dosages of it, and other times on Prozac, it acted 'opposite' to the first time on it .. made me feel bad.
So what I'm saying is that if I had to pick ADs that were successful at all in the past, those are the two, but tried at alternate times in my life, they were not successful. (As u can see, I'm having troub' w/ my thought processes and repeating myself I think and I'm sorry.)
Do I have to trade off feeling human w/ real emotions, because I have high anxiety and need benzodiazepines, but they are too addictive or whatever, and there's a movement away from them, after I've been on them 20 +_ years?
Do I have to do this by squelching all emotions, anxiety as well, because all Ps want to cut back on benzo use?
Apologize so scattered in followup posts.
At this time P said, well if you do well on AD, I'll consider a Valium/Xanax switcheroo.
I'm on Lexapro - Knocks me out, stay groggy and listless all day, feel like zombie, headache, but it is day 3 or 4, and I dare not call P.
I had some complaints about Valium, so I'd been asking P to add in a prn fast acting benzo.
I know Valium was a Godsend when had 'nervous breakdown' (something which I've been told so often doesn't exist that I've become lackadaisical to hearing it) but after 2yrs, the 'depressant affect' of Valium is occuring .. inactivity, laziness, agoraphobia.
I keep wondering something and wonder if any of you have a theory about it.
Could a person who seems to do badly on ADs (except Prozac at one time, Effexor-XR at other times, a short-lived window on Zoloft) be indicative of being bipolar?
There, I've said it. I've been frightened to say it. One 'why?' is because I don't want to be categorized. Another 'why?' is because my knowledge of self fits PTSD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and borderline'. My personality has changed drastically from that as a teenager, young adult.
tks, 5f
Posted by Fivefires on February 12, 2007, at 16:12:56
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by Fivefires on February 12, 2007, at 16:08:18
Yep sorry .. me once again. I've done the 'take a break' on benzos and it does help when go back to normal regiemn. I learned this w/ my back pain meds and once in a while 'less is better'. For me, it is like 'fasting'.
5f
Posted by Fivefires on February 12, 2007, at 16:25:25
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » laima, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2007, at 19:29:38
OMG my voracious appetite for chocolate is working against me?
And as re: P's post, Xanax working differently, I have a theory that it is because chemistry in bod' was diff' at those times or maybe had just changed.
I was given some Xanax (b4 P became totally anti-benzo) 6mos back or so. I DIDN'T GET THAT, OH WHAT A RELIEF FEELING, that I'd gotten from it in the past either, butt I'd become accustomed to Valium and was on Valium and Effexor-XR. So I'm thinking the chemistry 'around the Xanax' may be what altered my former relief when taking it.
5f
Posted by FredPotter on February 12, 2007, at 19:09:02
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by Fivefires on February 12, 2007, at 16:25:25
I've been an anxious depressive for 42 years. Here's what I've done/had to treat it:
ADs
amitryptiline, nortryptiline, Concordin, dothiepin, Wellbutrin, Marplan, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, CelexaAPs
Chlorpromazine, Stelazine, pericyazine (drug from hell), ZyprexaStabilisers
LithiumBenzos
Librium (ha!), Valium, oxazepam, Ativan, Klonopin, XanaxTherapy
Reichian therapy, Gestalt therapy, guided imagery, NLP, rebirthing, hypnotherapy, Crystal therapy, Human Givens therapy, CBT, Get-your-*rse-out-of-here-and-get-a-Life therapy, allergy testing, alcohol abstinence (AA), prayer, meditation, binaural beats brainwave entrainment.Here's what's worked:
Xanax (oh and alcohol, but that doesn't count). Of course out of this long list it's only these two that doctors have tried to prevent me from taking.
I must admit to feeling bitter when I see these people with sunny smiles who've got over this "eminently treatable" disease. If my condition doesn't respond to treatment perhaps it's not an illness. But I'm in good company I think
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2007, at 19:26:09
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope, posted by FredPotter on February 12, 2007, at 19:09:02
Fred that's exactly the same that worked for me!!!!! I think we have discovered the magic pill!!!!!!We are rich and famous and Betty Ford will go out of business along with a lot of othe facilities . Maybe we could franchise it worldwide? Love Phillipa
Posted by Fivefires on February 13, 2007, at 11:41:51
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2007, at 19:26:09
When will the 'magic pill' be available to the public? (Or can friends get it from the back of a magazine ad?)
If you're looking for volunteers for research b4 putting on market, I volunteer! In fact, 'I'll pay You to ME!
I'm first in line, right?
ZombieOnAD, 5f
Posted by valene on February 13, 2007, at 13:13:22
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2007, at 19:26:09
> Fred that's exactly the same that worked for me!!!!! I think we have discovered the magic pill!!!!!!We are rich and famous and Betty Ford will go out of business along with a lot of othe facilities . Maybe we could franchise it worldwide? Love Phillipa
Same here, Phillipa. Still taking xanax. Can you add me? I'd like to become rich anyway!
Love, Val
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2007, at 19:07:19
In reply to Re: Well Benzos Worked For Years Now No Hope » Phillipa, posted by valene on February 13, 2007, at 13:13:22
Valene of course hop on board!!!!! Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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