![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by halcyondaze on January 31, 2007, at 20:17:00
Parnate has induced this terrible feeling of restlessness, which is fairly dormant during the day but becomes unbearable at around 6:00 p.m. I can't sit still, have to keep moving around or bouncing my legs up and down and even pacing around the room. My doctor added .5 mg of Cogentin and 100 mg of Vitamin B6 but it isn't helping. Is this akathisia or restless leg syndrome? Is there such a thing as medication-induced RLS? We might try Propanolol next. Has anyone successfully treated this condition using Propanolol?
Posted by yxibow on January 31, 2007, at 23:41:39
In reply to Akathisia or RLS?, posted by halcyondaze on January 31, 2007, at 20:17:00
> Parnate has induced this terrible feeling of restlessness, which is fairly dormant during the day but becomes unbearable at around 6:00 p.m. I can't sit still, have to keep moving around or bouncing my legs up and down and even pacing around the room. My doctor added .5 mg of Cogentin and 100 mg of Vitamin B6 but it isn't helping. Is this akathisia or restless leg syndrome? Is there such a thing as medication-induced RLS? We might try Propanolol next. Has anyone successfully treated this condition using Propanolol?
I'm not sure but overstimulation with Parnate can cause restlessness. It does sort of sound like akathisia but I wasn't aware that was something associated with MAOIs. One solution is to reduce the dose of Parnate to see if that has any effect.
.5mg of Cogentin is a fairly low dose, you may need more. Do be careful with anticholinergics though and increase the dose slowly and additively so you don't get atropine toxicity (general wierd feelings and chills, blurriness, etc).As much as anticholinergics are supposed to be similar, some people respond differently. If you can still acquire the discontinued Akineton (biperiden) from remaining pharmacy stocks, I would try that. Otherwise, there is Artane and procyclidine.
Propranolol generally targets peripheral EPS, such as pseudoparkinsonism, but its always worth a try and is fairly harmless as long as you keep an eye on your pulse and don't go too low.
The monograph also suggests adding a phenothiazine, however I think that's rather harsh and seems counterintuitive. I wouldn't do that.
Posted by mindevolution on February 2, 2007, at 19:56:57
In reply to Akathisia or RLS?, posted by halcyondaze on January 31, 2007, at 20:17:00
be careful!
akathisia is another word for torture. some people get stuck with it forever from ADs or APs, it can be so bad that people even commit homicides from the sensations.
people with severe akathisia simply will do anything to escape the terrible tormenting sensations they experience. if there was one side effect that could be held responsible for inducing serious violence in the mentally ill, it would be akathisia.
there is widespread denial of this fact by the psychiatric profession, and people who mention this viewpoint are usually discredited. however, the last 7 of 12 highschool homicide were by kids on ADs and APs.
anyone who has ever had serious akathisia knows what I am saying is true. Some forensic psychiatrists that I speak with, agree in private, and express sadness at the number of murders and suicides that this side effect induces.
Parnate does induce suicidal behaviour and akathisia:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/parnate.htmli would try another AD med as there is no cure for akathisia, and keep the doses low really low, rather than trying fixes like propananlol, clonidine, cogentin (is a harsh AC!) that usually contribute to a worsening of your long term position with only minor impacts on the akathisia.
If you are off the akathisia inducing med, I have heard that 1 or 2 low doses (high doses can induce or make it worse) tablets of fluvoxamine can potentially reduce the symptoms of severe akathisia. due to the harsh side effect profile, and the number of systems affected by fluvoxamine, I wouldn't recommend it for more than the minimum amount required for relief.
you won't see it recommended in the literature though as it is no longer a major brand. typically you will see reports of mirtazapine in low doses (7.5mg) used for the same purpose, but with mirtazapine there is the risk of agranulosytosis, but with only a couple of low doses, this may help too.
also I think you need a better pdoc, one who doesn't try and bandaid a potentially life threatening situation.
me
Posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 20:59:44
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by mindevolution on February 2, 2007, at 19:56:57
> be careful!
>
> akathisia is another word for torture. some people get stuck with it forever from ADs or APs, it can be so bad that people even commit homicides from the sensations.
>
> people with severe akathisia simply will do anything to escape the terrible tormenting sensations they experience. if there was one side effect that could be held responsible for inducing serious violence in the mentally ill, it would be akathisia.
>
> there is widespread denial of this fact by the psychiatric profession, and people who mention this viewpoint are usually discredited. however, the last 7 of 12 highschool homicide were by kids on ADs and APs.
>
> anyone who has ever had serious akathisia knows what I am saying is true. Some forensic psychiatrists that I speak with, agree in private, and express sadness at the number of murders and suicides that this side effect induces.
>
> Parnate does induce suicidal behaviour and akathisia:
> http://www.drugs.com/pro/parnate.html
>
> i would try another AD med as there is no cure for akathisia, and keep the doses low really low, rather than trying fixes like propananlol, clonidine, cogentin (is a harsh AC!) that usually contribute to a worsening of your long term position with only minor impacts on the akathisia.
>
> If you are off the akathisia inducing med, I have heard that 1 or 2 low doses (high doses can induce or make it worse) tablets of fluvoxamine can potentially reduce the symptoms of severe akathisia. due to the harsh side effect profile, and the number of systems affected by fluvoxamine, I wouldn't recommend it for more than the minimum amount required for relief.
>
> you won't see it recommended in the literature though as it is no longer a major brand. typically you will see reports of mirtazapine in low doses (7.5mg) used for the same purpose, but with mirtazapine there is the risk of agranulosytosis, but with only a couple of low doses, this may help too.
>
> also I think you need a better pdoc, one who doesn't try and bandaid a potentially life threatening situation.
>
> meOh for cr*ps sake. I've had enough of this negativism towards individuals on the board. It still continues to go unnoticed although I am seeing a pattern of generalizations about medications handed down to people. Including myself, and I've seen no apologies towards lumping the "mentally ill" with "criminals" in previous threads. If you aren't a consumer, who are you to stand outside. An observer?
I think this is as dangerous as the sky is falling scenarios that are being created by someone who from the pattern of postings appears to be a new member on the board. Welcome. But it seems like just targets for trolling are being created without actually giving thoughtful researched knowledge to people.
Akathisia occurs with a number of medications rarely. It is an EPS, an extrapyramidal symptom. And if it is akathisia, there are mitigating medications for it. I've felt it big time once on Compazine. Have you ever ?
Cogentin happens to be somewhat more atropine inducing, but there is also Artane and procyclidine. There used to be Akineton which was a wonderful anticholinergic and had few atropine effects. Taking an anticholinergic in medically safe amounts for akathisia if the medication is necessary is not going to lead to any worse effects than the side effect already produces. Or for that matter propranolol which has had millions of patient-years experience, or even clonidine (with the caveat that you shouldn't start and stop propranolol or clonidine suddenly.)
No, there are no "cures" for side effects on medications. But there are mitigations that can make an important medication in someone's treatment tolerable if the use of the medication is better than the alternative. I once made a generalization in a posting about people on MAOIs, I backed off on it when I realized that I was being hurtful and I didn't know enough about them and the number of people on here who have been helped by them.
I fail to see how Luvox can possibly help akathisia when the standard protocol for treatment is 1) discontinue the akathisia generating medication if it is not medically necessary or 2) treat with an anticholinergic at a medically safe dose or propranolol, or yes, clonidine, which when taken properly is also a perfectly good choice and is used extensively in child psychiatry for hyperactivity. Luvox, as an SSRI can very rarely (Zoloft more so) in fact cause akathisia itself. So I can't see this argument at all. Its out of thin air.
And finally -- any antidepressant has the possibility of "inducing depression." These black box labels have been the CYA of all antidepressants of late. But if you look at cases, it is just as likely that the people who have supposedly gained suicidal behaviour from an antidepressant, might in fact be undertreated or have breakthrough depression.
I'm not asking that you don't express your opinion, I'm simply saying that the sky is falling diatribes towards medication do not help people who are seeking rational medical thought. Post as you may, but remember that we all have to be civil on here.-- tidings.
Posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 21:11:58
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze » mindevolution, posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 20:59:44
THANK YOU!!!!
I have since been started on Propanolol and Vitamin B6 and iron and the akathisia or restless leg syndrome is gone. :)
I know I need Parnate. I can't take anything else; it is an end-of-the-line, life-saving treatment for me. Talk about "inducing depression" - why would ANYONE suggest I go off a medication that has finally RELIEVED my depression?
I can't stand these anti-psychiatry people. They're like religious zealots.
> Oh for cr*ps sake. I've had enough of this negativism towards individuals on the board. It still continues to go unnoticed although I am seeing a pattern of generalizations about medications handed down to people. Including myself, and I've seen no apologies towards lumping the "mentally ill" with "criminals" in previous threads. If you aren't a consumer, who are you to stand outside. An observer?
>
>
> I think this is as dangerous as the sky is falling scenarios that are being created by someone who from the pattern of postings appears to be a new member on the board. Welcome. But it seems like just targets for trolling are being created without actually giving thoughtful researched knowledge to people.
>
>
> Akathisia occurs with a number of medications rarely. It is an EPS, an extrapyramidal symptom. And if it is akathisia, there are mitigating medications for it. I've felt it big time once on Compazine. Have you ever ?
>
>
> Cogentin happens to be somewhat more atropine inducing, but there is also Artane and procyclidine. There used to be Akineton which was a wonderful anticholinergic and had few atropine effects. Taking an anticholinergic in medically safe amounts for akathisia if the medication is necessary is not going to lead to any worse effects than the side effect already produces. Or for that matter propranolol which has had millions of patient-years experience, or even clonidine (with the caveat that you shouldn't start and stop propranolol or clonidine suddenly.)
>
>
> No, there are no "cures" for side effects on medications. But there are mitigations that can make an important medication in someone's treatment tolerable if the use of the medication is better than the alternative. I once made a generalization in a posting about people on MAOIs, I backed off on it when I realized that I was being hurtful and I didn't know enough about them and the number of people on here who have been helped by them.
>
>
> I fail to see how Luvox can possibly help akathisia when the standard protocol for treatment is 1) discontinue the akathisia generating medication if it is not medically necessary or 2) treat with an anticholinergic at a medically safe dose or propranolol, or yes, clonidine, which when taken properly is also a perfectly good choice and is used extensively in child psychiatry for hyperactivity. Luvox, as an SSRI can very rarely (Zoloft more so) in fact cause akathisia itself. So I can't see this argument at all. Its out of thin air.
>
>
> And finally -- any antidepressant has the possibility of "inducing depression." These black box labels have been the CYA of all antidepressants of late. But if you look at cases, it is just as likely that the people who have supposedly gained suicidal behaviour from an antidepressant, might in fact be undertreated or have breakthrough depression.
>
>
> I'm not asking that you don't express your opinion, I'm simply saying that the sky is falling diatribes towards medication do not help people who are seeking rational medical thought. Post as you may, but remember that we all have to be civil on here.
>
> -- tidings.
Posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 21:16:27
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by mindevolution on February 2, 2007, at 19:56:57
> If you are off the akathisia inducing med, I have heard that 1 or 2 low doses (high doses can induce or make it worse) tablets of fluvoxamine can potentially reduce the symptoms of severe akathisia. due to the harsh side effect profile, and the number of systems affected by fluvoxamine, I wouldn't recommend it for more than the minimum amount required for relief.Are you forgetting that I take a MAOI? And therefore Luvox is contraindicated?
>
> you won't see it recommended in the literature though as it is no longer a major brand. typically you will see reports of mirtazapine in low doses (7.5mg) used for the same purpose, but with mirtazapine there is the risk of agranulosytosis, but with only a couple of low doses, this may help too.Remeron is still a "major" brand despite being generic. And the risk of agranulocytosis is with CLOZARIL, not Remeron. There is no substantial risk of agranulocytosis with Remeron. Where on earth are you getting your information?
> also I think you need a better pdoc, one who doesn't try and bandaid a potentially life threatening situation.
>My psychiatrist is fantastic, thank you very much. I've been with her for three years, and she's also my therapist. And she has single-handedly saved me from some REAL life threatening situations.
But thank you sooooo much for your expertise. </sarcasm>
Posted by yxibow on February 3, 2007, at 0:34:42
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 21:16:27
>
> > If you are off the akathisia inducing med, I have heard that 1 or 2 low doses (high doses can induce or make it worse) tablets of fluvoxamine can potentially reduce the symptoms of severe akathisia. due to the harsh side effect profile, and the number of systems affected by fluvoxamine, I wouldn't recommend it for more than the minimum amount required for relief.
>
> Are you forgetting that I take a MAOI? And therefore Luvox is contraindicated?I would definately say so.
> > you won't see it recommended in the literature though as it is no longer a major brand. typically you will see reports of mirtazapine in low doses (7.5mg) used for the same purpose, but with mirtazapine there is the risk of agranulosytosis, but with only a couple of low doses, this may help too.
>
> Remeron is still a "major" brand despite being generic. And the risk of agranulocytosis is with CLOZARIL, not Remeron. There is no substantial risk of agranulocytosis with Remeron. Where on earth are you getting your information?
The one truth is there is actually a true risk with Remeron if you read the PI, but it is far lower than Clozaril, which has a mandatory discontinuation rate of around 2% and costs $9,000 at least at one point in time to monitor it.Remeron is more in the range of .1% give or take. My doctor was thorough though and did give a blood test just for my concerns and CYA after I was on the medication for some weeks. It can occur (not for me), but it is rare. And even rarer, the Seroquel potential for turning beagles into glaucoma patients, but I was given a test anyhow. There have never been substantiated proven reports of glaucoma in humans.
> > also I think you need a better pdoc, one who doesn't try and bandaid a potentially life threatening situation.
> >
>
> My psychiatrist is fantastic, thank you very much. I've been with her for three years, and she's also my therapist. And she has single-handedly saved me from some REAL life threatening situations.
>
> But thank you sooooo much for your expertise. </sarcasm>
>
>
Posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 7:05:02
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze » mindevolution, posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 20:59:44
>Oh for cr*ps sake.
language please!
I've had enough of this negativism towards individuals on the board.
I am not being negative towards any members including HD, offering a view on akathisia is a legitimite response and far from negative.
> It still continues to go unnoticed although I am seeing a pattern of generalizations about medications handed down to people. Including myself, and I've seen no apologies towards lumping the "mentally ill" with "criminals" in previous threads.
As I pointed out previously, I haven't insulted anyone, you on the other hand consider the elderly, the retarded and the criminals "subhuman", and the mentally ill vastly superior to all of these categories.
> If you aren't a consumer, who are you to stand outside. An observer?
a member of the board as are you.
> I think this is as dangerous as the sky is falling scenarios that are being created by someone who from the pattern of postings appears to be a new member on the board. Welcome.
thanks.
> But it seems like just targets for trolling are being created without actually giving thoughtful researched knowledge to people.
well so far in all of our conversations, i have actually offered far more research to back up my claims than you have.
> Akathisia occurs with a number of medications rarely. It is an EPS, an extrapyramidal symptom. And if it is akathisia, there are mitigating medications for it. I've felt it big time once on Compazine. Have you ever ?
I know that akathisia is a very common side effect of AP, sometimes up to 75%+ for some APs dose dependent, it seems to be related to blocking and damage to the cholinergic system. It is less common but still does occur in ADs and according to the DSM displays identical symptoms as neuroleptic akathisia. "Serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitor antidepressant medications may produce akathisia that appears to be
identical in phenomenology and treatment response to Neuroleptic-Induced Acute Akathisia. "> Cogentin happens to be somewhat more atropine inducing, but there is also Artane and procyclidine. There used to be Akineton which was a wonderful anticholinergic and had few atropine effects. Taking an anticholinergic in medically safe amounts for akathisia if the medication is necessary is not going to lead to any worse effects than the side effect already produces. Or for that matter propranolol which has had millions of patient-years experience, or even clonidine (with the caveat that you shouldn't start and stop propranolol or clonidine suddenly.)
good info.
> No, there are no "cures" for side effects on medications. But there are mitigations that can make an important medication in someone's treatment tolerable if the use of the medication is better than the alternative. I once made a generalization in a posting about people on MAOIs, I backed off on it when I realized that I was being hurtful and I didn't know enough about them and the number of people on here who have been helped by them.
I never said never take an AD, and I never said go off ADs, I was concerned for the safety of another board member, with akathisia being the number one side effect known to be responsible for many suicides with AD use.
> I fail to see how Luvox can possibly help akathisia when the standard protocol for treatment is 1) discontinue the akathisia generating medication if it is not medically necessary or 2) treat with an anticholinergic at a medically safe dose or propranolol, or yes, clonidine, which when taken properly is also a perfectly good choice and is used extensively in child psychiatry for hyperactivity. Luvox, as an SSRI can very rarely (Zoloft more so) in fact cause akathisia itself. So I can't see this argument at all. Its out of thin air.
Well I agree that is the standard protocol for AP akathisia. but if you read the lit, there has been minimal efficacy produced from treatment with benadryl or ACs, and propranolol is generally seen as the best treatment. however I have noticed a number of research reports that focus on the merits of mianserin and mirtazapine with good results, and I have anecdotal reports of the efficacy of fluvoxamine. I was passing on this information but noted the low dose was necessary to avoid exacerbating the condition.
http://www.druglib.com/abstract/po/poyurovsky-m_biol-psychiatry_20060601.html
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/158/5/819
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mirtazapine+%2B+akathisia&btnG=Search&meta=
http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/24/9/348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16614537
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/174/3/238also that is not necessarily the treatment protocol for AD induced akathisia with switching ADs being the most recommended alternative from my reading.
> And finally -- any antidepressant has the possibility of "inducing depression." These black box labels have been the CYA of all antidepressants of late. But if you look at cases, it is just as likely that the people who have supposedly gained suicidal behaviour from an antidepressant, might in fact be undertreated or have breakthrough depression.from my reading there is a link between ADs akathisia and suicide, it is even in the link I posted and generally widely understood and includes black box warnings from the fda and a voluminous number of textbooks and studies.
> I'm not asking that you don't express your opinion, I'm simply saying that the sky is falling diatribes towards medication do not help people who are seeking rational medical thought. Post as you may, but remember that we all have to be civil on here.
well in my view akathisia is one of, if not the most common life threatening side effects of ADs. As for my civility I think you will see from my recent posts, that I have not insulted anyone including criminals nor have I sworn either!
me
Posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 7:12:30
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 21:11:58
> THANK YOU!!!!
>
> I have since been started on Propanolol and Vitamin B6 and iron and the akathisia or restless leg syndrome is gone. :)
>
> I know I need Parnate. I can't take anything else; it is an end-of-the-line, life-saving treatment for me. Talk about "inducing depression" - why would ANYONE suggest I go off a medication that has finally RELIEVED my depression?I was merely presenting an alternative perspective for you to consider; switching ADs is standard AD induced akathisia protocol.
I am not anti-psychiatry, in the sense that it is the medical specialty that focuses on the medical treatments for mental illness, but I do hold some reservations about how it was implemented historically and how it is implemented today.
me
Posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 7:21:56
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 21:16:27
> Are you forgetting that I take a MAOI? And therefore Luvox is contraindicated?good point.
> > also I think you need a better pdoc, one who doesn't try and bandaid a potentially life threatening situation.
> >
>
> My psychiatrist is fantastic, thank you very much. I've been with her for three years, and she's also my therapist. And she has single-handedly saved me from some REAL life threatening situations.ok, fair enough, you are happy with your pdoc.
>
> But thank you sooooo much for your expertise. </sarcasm>hey, I responded to your question with a legitimate attempt at giving some relevant information, I do not think that is a very civil way to respond to somebody who takes the time to answer your post.
me
Posted by yxibow on February 3, 2007, at 12:45:37
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze, posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 7:21:56
I'm going to agree to disagree with these arguments. They're non-productive and take away time from disseminating some information and interacting with people on the board.
There's nothing wrong with saying crap or sh*t on here, we're human and get exasperated sometimes. The board corrects it to not offend people.
I really think that we should agree to disagree on all topics of psychopharmacology because we are on different wavelengths, I feel there is a sense of trolling, and frankly I don't want to escalate something to a point where someone jumps in and tells either party to be civil when no apologies have been ever made about grouping "mental patients" with "criminals". I feel like there is this outsider mentality, of someone who doesn't have a biological illness and is randomly issuing comments. Sure a case study in Israel had Remeron reducing some tardive symptoms, but a case study is just that. There were better ones with tetrabenazine at Baylor and high dosing of BuSpar.
-- adieu.
Posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 15:55:45
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze » mindevolution, posted by yxibow on February 3, 2007, at 12:45:37
> I'm going to agree to disagree with these arguments. They're non-productive and take away time from disseminating some information and interacting with people on the board.
think of me as a second opinion then. the greater the variety of views the better it is for everyone.
> There's nothing wrong with saying crap or sh*t on here, we're human and get exasperated sometimes. The board corrects it to not offend people.
i don't think it creates a positive, supportive environment which is what should be encouraged on a forum like this.
> I really think that we should agree to disagree on all topics of psychopharmacology because we are on different wavelengths, I feel there is a sense of trolling, and frankly I don't want to escalate something to a point where someone jumps in and tells either party to be civil when no apologies have been ever made about grouping "mental patients" with "criminals".
my concern is that often the medication, particularly the APs have been shown to turn an otherwise calm and peaceful patient into a violent and suicidal one. some studies suggest that up to 80% of violence in psyche wards is due to akathisia. medium to high dose APs may therefore be responsible in part or completely for turning a mental patient into a potentially violent criminal. there is already an image of the mentally ill being extremely violent in our culture, are you confident the medication plays absolutely no part in such an image?
> I feel like there is this outsider mentality, of someone who doesn't have a biological illness and is randomly issuing comments.
mental illness is by definition an illness without a known biological basis. if the pathology of a mental illness is discovered it is redefined and moves to another division of medicine.
> Sure a case study in Israel had Remeron reducing some tardive symptoms, but a case study is just that. There were better ones with tetrabenazine at Baylor and high dosing of BuSpar.
the point is that I made suggestions and provided supporting evidence when questioned. you have only cited one in all the claims you have made.
me
Posted by FredPotter on February 4, 2007, at 14:59:22
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) yxibow, posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 7:05:02
Isn't Wellbutrin supposed to be affective against RLS?
Posted by mindevolution on February 4, 2007, at 16:32:03
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) yxibow, posted by FredPotter on February 4, 2007, at 14:59:22
> Isn't Wellbutrin supposed to be affective against RLS?
good lateral idea, may have the maoi interaction problem though, although some sources don't seem to think it is a problem especially at low doses.
Posted by FredPotter on February 4, 2007, at 20:44:08
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) FredPotter, posted by mindevolution on February 4, 2007, at 16:32:03
I find alcohol can give me restless legs so the dopamine surge isn't everything, although alcohol interferes with most things so hard to pin down I imagine
Posted by mindevolution on February 5, 2007, at 1:58:33
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) FredPotter, posted by FredPotter on February 4, 2007, at 20:44:08
> I find alcohol can give me restless legs so the dopamine surge isn't everything, although alcohol interferes with most things so hard to pin down I imagine
does that mean benzos don't help at night, or do you use painkillers or levodopa/dopamine agonists?
Posted by FredPotter on February 5, 2007, at 18:58:48
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) FredPotter, posted by mindevolution on February 5, 2007, at 1:58:33
I've taken Xanax for years. My restless legs aren't too bad not like when I used to take Dothiepin. Now I take Effexor
Posted by gardenergirl on February 5, 2007, at 21:32:08
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze » mindevolution, posted by yxibow on February 3, 2007, at 12:45:37
> I feel there is a sense of trolling,
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
namaste
deputy gg
Posted by yxibow on February 5, 2007, at 23:06:38
In reply to Please be civil » yxibow, posted by gardenergirl on February 5, 2007, at 21:32:08
> > I feel there is a sense of trolling,
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
>
> namaste
> deputy gg
Well I tried to tell Dr. Bob about this a week ago, and there was no real sense of anything that could have simply told the other individual that I wasa) rather offended of collecting everybody including the "mentally ill" which would categorize most people on this board who are in desperate need of help because they don't have the quality of healthcare they should be getting and I put a lot of effort into posting sound commentary because I am getting decent health care although 5 years of my life has been eaten up by an ungodly disorder.
b) trolling is a tactic used by some people on the internet, I have used the internet when it was owned by DARPA and newsgroups (who does Usenet these days ?) were full of people posting for the sake of it. Now whether this individual was doing this or not, what can I say, but where do you draw the line, it just seemed like a new poster wandered on the board and gave odd suggestions like Luvox for someone with an MAOI.
If I offended the other user, mea culpa, and I did not want it to be led to a PBC situation (I pointed this out at least a week ago with no real resolution), as I had ended my interest in discussions with this person as it was a waste of time and I'm here to be compassionate and not argumentative, but sometimes the latter ends up occuring.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 6, 2007, at 11:34:45
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by yxibow on February 5, 2007, at 23:06:38
I've redirected your post to the Admin board since it's a follow-up to administrative action. Here is a link to your post there: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070123/msgs/730358.html
namasté
deputy gg
Posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 21:47:01
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by yxibow on February 5, 2007, at 23:06:38
what is "trolling"?
Posted by yxibow on February 8, 2007, at 0:36:02
In reply to trolling?, posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 21:47:01
> what is "trolling"?
Without making a double PBC, I will describe it in person neutral fashion. Trolling, and it is described in some of the FAQs on this board if you dig around enough, is the posting of inflammatory, bizarre, or counterproductive posts in the hope that someone will respond to the "troll".
A troll, among other dictionary definitions is a type of fishing boat, a trolling boat that throws out a net in a hope to capture something.
People do it for all sorts of reasons, possibly psychological, who knows, but mainly to get attention.And the attention scales in magnitude, and soon everybody is sucked into a thread that basically ends up being a waste of energy that could have been spent discussing something else.
I made a generalization and while I may argue one way or the other about the individual I have to respect the board even if the individual is doing something odd. The best response is no response.
I think I posted this in as neutral a fashion as possible, I hope.-- Jay
Posted by elanor roosevelt on February 8, 2007, at 20:59:25
In reply to Re: trolling? » elanor roosevelt, posted by yxibow on February 8, 2007, at 0:36:02
thank you for the explanation given in such a perfectly neutral tone
if i recoginize any trollers who think i am a tuna i will cut the line and swim the other way
This is the end of the thread.
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