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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by becksA on January 24, 2007, at 1:07:22
Anybody's thoughts? I know certain ones work in different ways...but any input, experiences would be great. I used to take Ambien 10-20mg and that generally worked very well, but that was before Lunesta and Ambien CR came out.
Thanks again
Posted by psychobot5000 on January 24, 2007, at 1:18:47
In reply to Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by becksA on January 24, 2007, at 1:07:22
> Anybody's thoughts? I know certain ones work in different ways...but any input, experiences would be great. I used to take Ambien 10-20mg and that generally worked very well, but that was before Lunesta and Ambien CR came out.
>
> Thanks again
It all depends on your personal brain-chemistry, but I believe the best statistical results, I think, are for Ambien. However, due to short half-life, it really only lasts about four hours before it loses efficacy. A long-release effect version seems like it would take care of it, though.I respond better to Lunesta, but had emotional lability issues from it.
Benzodiazepines like Ativan and Temazepam are old cheap drugs that are highly effective, but slightly more dependence-inducing.
Antihistamines (benadryl, doxylamine, phenergan) are also effective, but tend to quickly induce tolerance. I take benadryl once every few days or so, and it help substantially.
But Xyrem probably is the most likely to induce sleep, and gives the best sleep quality. Unfortunately, it is highly, highly, controlled, and is only approved for narcoleptic patients.
If Ambien worked for you, I suggest you may as well stick with it, or use the long-acting formulation. Hope things work out.
P-bot
Posted by Phillipa on January 24, 2007, at 11:07:57
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by psychobot5000 on January 24, 2007, at 1:18:47
Taking valium lunesta and xanax at bedtime sometimes I sleep other times I don't. So I don't know if it's the meds or me? Love Phillipa
Posted by danr49 on January 24, 2007, at 11:37:13
In reply to Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by becksA on January 24, 2007, at 1:07:22
When picking the best sleep aid, it's important to not only consider which ones put you to sleep the easiest, but also which ones interfere the least with your sleep architecture.
Ambien CR has been shown to help preserve the amount of time you spend in different sleep stages. The CR version has been shown to have less side effects and a lower tendency for hangover than the original Ambien.
Benadryl (diphenhydramine) does not preserve sleep architecture according to sleep studies. It's actually one of the worst ones you can take. For some reason, though, this one gets to be the "over-the-counter" drug.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 24, 2007, at 12:13:33
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by Phillipa on January 24, 2007, at 11:07:57
For me, nothing has ever come close to Seroquel. It is like being shot by an elephant dart. 25mg (lowest dosage). Best thing? You will know first day whether or not it works, not 4-6 weeks.
Posted by linkadge on January 24, 2007, at 20:11:32
In reply to Re: Seroquel, posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 24, 2007, at 12:13:33
My biggest problem is finding a sleep aid that doesn't mess me up the next day.
Seroquel does seem to work well if I am really reved up, but it makes life miserable and very difficult the next day.
There is no lunesta or ambien available in Canada, but there is zopiclone which works fairly well.
For me, it is just falling asleep. If I can fall asleep I stay asleep. So, the stortest acting drug for me is probably the best.
I've alwasy wondered if taking a cholinergic agent might ofset the REM supressing effects of certain drugs.
Cholinergic drugs tend to induce REM sleep.
Linkadge
Posted by Cecilia on January 24, 2007, at 23:01:33
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by danr49 on January 24, 2007, at 11:37:13
That makes no sense that the CR Ambien would have less hangover than the original. For most people the original is out of their system by morning while the CR is designed to last all night. I take temazepam (cheap) or regular Ambien (expensive), either way I'm sure my sleep architecture is lousy and I have very little deep sleep, just endless unpleasant dream stage sleep, but I guess that's better than no sleep at all. Trazodone is a sugar pill for me, benadryl actually works as well as the prescription stuff IF you don't take it too often but gives by far the worst hangover, in my experience. Lunesta did absolutely nothing: I'd like to swat that stupid butterfly on the commercials. Cecilia
Posted by med_empowered on January 24, 2007, at 23:52:38
In reply to Re: Seroquel, posted by linkadge on January 24, 2007, at 20:11:32
surmontil is an option...supposedly it improves sleep architecture.
remeron can be helpful. it sometimes helps with sleep apnea, too.
Posted by liliths on January 25, 2007, at 12:56:15
In reply to Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by becksA on January 24, 2007, at 1:07:22
If you've done well with ambien in the past, I'd suggest trying the CR. I'd wake back up after a few hours on the old stuff but find I actually sleep faily well in the CR version and don't feel any hangover...
...on the other hand, if the old ambien worked well enough, couldn't you just still use it? (of course, I'm assuming it's still on the market as most drugs with extended release versions still offer their originals)
good luck and sweet dreams :)
namaste,
lilith> Anybody's thoughts? I know certain ones work in different ways...but any input, experiences would be great. I used to take Ambien 10-20mg and that generally worked very well, but that was before Lunesta and Ambien CR came out.
>
> Thanks again
Posted by danr49 on January 25, 2007, at 22:42:05
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by Cecilia on January 24, 2007, at 23:01:33
> That makes no sense that the CR Ambien would >have less hangover than the original. For most >people the original is out of their system by >morning while the CR is designed to last all >night.
Well, that's what the clinical trials found. Significantly less side effects were reported with the CR, it preserves sleep architecture even better than the original, and has a lower incidence of hangover, which wasn't that high even with the original.
Posted by kelv on January 27, 2007, at 11:09:35
In reply to Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by becksA on January 24, 2007, at 1:07:22
> Anybody's thoughts? I know certain ones work in different ways...but any input, experiences would be great. I used to take Ambien 10-20mg and that generally worked very well, but that was before Lunesta and Ambien CR came out.
>
> Thanks againNembutal was king till 2004 (discontinued)
Seconal, and Tuinal-(Seconal+Amytal combo)are probably the strongest sleep aids on the market today-althought you have to have hard core insomnia to get them.
But take 2-3 Seconal and you WILL sleep.
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2007, at 18:43:41
In reply to Re: Seconal-Tuinal » becksA, posted by kelv on January 27, 2007, at 11:09:35
Wanna bet? Before they knew meds hurt unborn children I was in false labor no pain but they at the hospital gave me two seconals and I didn't sleep a wink. Love Phillipa ps they sent me home in the am to wait for around three more weeks.
Posted by Greif on January 29, 2007, at 20:59:40
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by Cecilia on January 24, 2007, at 23:01:33
I have been reading and posting on this board for about a year. Everyone tends to support drugs for everything. Sleep meds should be a last resort. Suggesting Barbituates is adolecent at best. Exercise eat well yoga sleep centers. There needs to be a sane voice on these bpards. You dont need drugs for everthing. The posts on side effectts of meds prescribed are helpful for all. This topic reminds me of High school.
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2007, at 21:35:40
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today, posted by Greif on January 29, 2007, at 20:59:40
Do you know how devastating it feels to try and function with no sleep? Not good for the body either. I think it's a fair question. Love Phillipa
Posted by Greif on January 30, 2007, at 11:07:13
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market Today » Greif, posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2007, at 21:35:40
hello Phillipa,
The question is fine. The advocacy of barbituates is irresposible. They are a very controlled substance and not prescribed for sleep any longer. They left a drail of corpses durung the 70s. Reds,Ludes all those readily available sleep aides have been restricted or eliminated. New gerneation of sleep aids, while adddictive, dont cause overdose and oversedation. People read thes boards looking for help.
Posted by psychobot5000 on January 30, 2007, at 15:37:44
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market TodayPhillipa, posted by Greif on January 30, 2007, at 11:07:13
> hello Phillipa,
>
> The question is fine. The advocacy of barbituates is irresposible. They are a very controlled substance and not prescribed for sleep any longer. They left a drail of corpses durung the 70s. Reds,Ludes all those readily available sleep aides have been restricted or eliminated. New gerneation of sleep aids, while adddictive, dont cause overdose and oversedation. People read thes boards looking for help.
>It's not entirely true that barbiturates aren't prescribed for sleep any more--it's still occasionally done, especially by older doctors who are comfortable and familiar with them. Sometimes old, time-tested drugs can work where newer ones fail.
Throwing guilt or shame at people seems to me unhelpful, and I would wager that most of the people on this thread have tried all sorts of sleep-hygiene and lifestyle remedies, possibly without success to get by.
I think your point of view would be more useful to people, were it not phrased in a recriminating and hyperbolic way.
Best,
Psychbot
Posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2007, at 18:23:32
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market TodayPhillipa » Greif, posted by psychobot5000 on January 30, 2007, at 15:37:44
Thank-you psychorobot as I was only sharing an experience I had. Which happened in a labor and delivery room in the 70's. My OB-GYN told the nurses to give them to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by kelv on January 31, 2007, at 0:09:50
In reply to Re: Best Sleep Aid On Market TodayPhillipa, posted by Greif on January 30, 2007, at 11:07:13
> "The question is fine. The advocacy of barbituates is irresposible. They are a very controlled substance and not prescribed for sleep any longer"
They are still scripted (seldomly-short term) Seconal, Tuinal, when other short measures have failed, and someone NEEDS sleep for the sake of their mental health, these not being first line sleep aids-Nembutal was discontinued in 04.
. "They left a drail of corpses durung the 70s. Reds,Ludes all those readily available sleep aides have been restricted or eliminated."'Reds'-Seconal is still available, but usually for short term, acute insomnia which impacts the patients life severly, unlike the 50's-70's where they were given more readily. 'Ludes' Quaalude, was aborted in 1984 due to widespred recreational use out doing medical use.
"New gerneation of sleep aids, while adddictive, dont cause overdose and oversedation. People read thes boards looking for help".I took Zopliclone 1-2, 7.5mg tabs, for~3months, it ceased to be effective fairly quickly and caused depression the following day. I'm amazed at reports that people take it for a year or more and continue to have it work.
This is the end of the thread.
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