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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 6:14:26
I have observed this board and some of the regular posters for nearly four months. During that time I have seen posters rush from doctor to doctor trying medication after medication without ever giving their brains a chance to acclimatize to the last medication before a new medication is thrust upon it. For Pete's sake every medication is an intruder in the CNS. It takes the brain time to adapt to this new intruder. Surely the brain should be granted the time to accomodate this intruder before thrusting upon it a second or third intruder. Anyway that's enough from me...
Nathaniel S. Lehrman, M.D has more to say on the subject...
http://www.stopshrinks.org/reading_room/drugs/stop_over-medication.htm
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 7:20:03
In reply to Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 6:14:26
http://www.stopshrinks.org/articles/op-ed_hoeller_8-29-03.htm
Psychiatrists have yet to conclusively prove that a single mental illness has a biological or physical cause, or a genetic origin. Psychiatry has yet to develop a single physical test that can determine that an individual actually has a particular mental illness. Indeed, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders uses behavior, not physical symptoms, to diagnose mental illness, and it lacks both scientific reliability and validity.
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 8:20:26
In reply to Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 6:14:26
http://www.stopshrinks.org/reading_room/drugs/stop_over-medication.htm
Today¹s OMH treatment, based on the popular psychiatric notion of mental illness as merely "brain disease," is, in fact, directed toward a very different goal: the maintenance of clients in drug-crippled states by indefinitely continuing them on brain-numbing drugs. Brain changes had long been sought unsuccessfully in schizophrenia, the most serious mental illness. Changes in these patients - an increase in dopamine receptors - which were absent in normals began to be found in the 1970¹s. Closer examination of the data revealed, however, that these changes were found only in schizophrenics who had received drug treatment but not in those who never were medicated. This strongly suggests that the brain changes supposedly characterizing schizophrenia are actually caused by the drugs used to treat it.
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 9:10:41
In reply to Re: Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 8:20:26
“In short, the whole business
of creating psychiatric categories
of ‘disease,’ formalizing them with
consensus, and subsequently ascribing
diagnostic codes to them, which in
turn leads to their use for insurance
billing, is nothing but an extended
racket furnishing psychiatry a
pseudo-scientific aura.The
perpetrators are, of course,
feeding at the public trough.”Thomas Dorman, MD
Fellow, Royal College of Physicians
United Kingdom and Canada
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 9:23:50
In reply to Re: Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 9:10:41
URL for the above quotation:
http://www.psychiatric-help.org/PSYCHIATRIC-HELP/files/RealCrisis.pdf
Posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 11:16:28
In reply to Re: Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 9:23:50
>Yet many professionals claim that the mental health movement is not a legitimate medical or scientific endeavor, let alone a civil rights movement, but a political ideology of intolerance and inhumanity. Numerous psychiatrists and psychologists have examined the psychiatric research literature and found it to range from smoke and mirrors to quackery.
I expressed a similar sentiment in an earlier post:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061129/msgs/709925.html
>If not, let us insist that the American Medical Association (or similar body) form a panel of objective, non-psychiatric scientists, without any ties to drug companies, to examine whether psychiatry should continue as a medical specialty or if it should join the historical ranks of alchemy, astrology and phrenology as a pseudoscience.
I've often thought the phrase 'psychopharmacological alchemy' was an apt description of the way people experiment with combining psychiatric drugs today - seemingly in an attempt to find the holy grail of psychiatry; that elusive magical elixir for eternal stability, contentment and happiness.
I know it seems sad, bizarre, even sick and disturbed behaviour to people outside psychiatric care and some within it are clearly expressing concern.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2007, at 11:43:31
In reply to Re: Too many pills - too little TIME » ronaldo, posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 11:16:28
Include me. Love Phillipa
Posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:02:54
In reply to Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 6:14:26
Physician Information
Physician Name: Nathaniel Lehrman, MD
License Number: 046420
License Type: MD
Year of Birth:
Effective Date: 08/06/93
Action: License revocation
Misconduct Description: The Review Board sustained the Hearing Committee's May 4, 1993 penalty and determination finding the physician guilty of having been convicted of Grand Larceny; Conspiracy and Offering a False Instrument for Filing ;having been found guilty of violating the provisions of New York State Public Health Law Article 33 relating to controlled substances and having been excluded from participation in the New York State Medicaid Program.
Board Order:here's the link - http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/58220a7f9eeaafab85256b180058c032/c1a9bc269ad60de385256a4a0047dcfd?OpenDocument
I wouldn't rely on any medical info by someone who had their license revoked. Sorry, Ronaldo.
Posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:05:04
In reply to Nathaniel Lehrman had his license revoked in 1993, posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:02:54
& it is not accurate to quote him as an MD, or an authority on psychiatry, let alone medicine without giving all the facts out....
Posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:11:31
In reply to He's not an MD anymore...., posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:05:04
he could be anti-meds etc. because he has an ax to grind. Gotta make a living somehow.
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 13:45:22
In reply to Nathaniel Lehrman had his license revoked in 1993, posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:02:54
Thanks for the info one woman. I concede he has been found guilty of various crimes but that does not mean he was necessarily wrong about patients taking too many pills.
Consider the following from the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (as far as I know they have a clean charge sheet).
Psychiatric Drugs Cont.
Hooking Your World On Psychiatric Drugs
While billions in tax dollars are paid each year to fight the “War on Drugs,” we have a different kind of drug war affecting the world today, one that is perpetuated by psychiatrists dreaming up new “mental illnesses” to fund a multibillion-dollar legal drug industry. The direct result continues to be an escalating, worldwide consumption of their addictive, mind-altering drugs.
Consider the following alarming statistics:
In the United States today, more than 6 million children are taking mind-altering psychiatric drugs for the learning and behavioral “disorder,” ADHD. Two million children take antidepressant and antipsychotic drugs.
In Australia, the stimulant prescription rate for children increased 34-fold in the past two decades.
In Britain the rate increased 9,200% between 1992 and 2000; in Mexico methylphenidate sales (the generic name for the drug Ritalin) increased 800% between 1993 and 2001.
In Germany methylphenidate sales increased 400% between 1995 and 1999.
Significant increases are also reported in France, Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland.
In 2000, international sales of antipsychotic drugs reached $6 billion. In 2001, antidepressant sales climbed to $12.5 billion. Today, that figure is near $20 billion.These soaring numbers parallel the increases in the number of mental disorders in the American Psychiatric Association’s lucrative insurance billing bible, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), and the mental disorders section of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD). Not one of the DSM’s long list of disorders is supported by any objective, diagnostic observations or criteria.
As psychiatrist Matthew Dumont commented, the APA provides “a 125-word definition of mental disorder, which is supposed to resolve all the issues surrounding the sticky problem of where deviance ends and dysfunction begins. It doesn’t.”
Because of the DSM, psychiatric drugs are now not only used extensively in our schools, nursing homes, drug rehabilitation centers and prisons, individuals personally rely on them to “help” them with everything from weight control, self-confidence, mathematical and writing problems, to anxiety, sleeping and upsets. In fact, they have become the panacea for the stresses of modern living. And they come with serious risks. Protect yourself from potentially dangerous psychiatric drugs by becoming well informed.
http://www.cchr.org/index.cfm/6388
The above data is probably a few years out of date. The situation today is probably far worse.
Posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:56:40
In reply to Re: Nathaniel Lehrman had his license revoked in 1993, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 13:45:22
"I concede he has been found guilty of various crimes but that does not mean he was necessarily wrong about patients taking too many pills."
But it also doesn't make him right.
He was found guilty not just of crimes but malpractice, he is not qualified to give medical information or advice.
Posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:57:58
In reply to Re: Nathaniel Lehrman had his license revoked in 1993, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 13:45:22
Is run by the scientologists, maybe we should re-direct this to the religion board?
Posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 15:36:48
In reply to Nathaniel Lehrman had his license revoked in 1993, posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:02:54
Nathaniel Lehrman made the following address in July 2001. According to my learned friend the said Nathaniel Lehrman had his license revoked in 1993. He therefore underwent a complete rehabilitation in the period 1993 to 2001. What I cannot understand is how Dr Lehrman was invited to speak in 2001 when he had had his licence revoked in 1993. One can only assume that his reputation as a psychiatrist remained intact despite the revocation of his licence. Perhaps there were two doctors with the same name?
Statement for NY State Assembly Mental Health Committee Hearing
Albany NY, July 18, 2001EST: Even More Harmful Psychiatrically than Routine Over-Medication;
Stopping over-medication should be the mental health movement's first taskNathaniel S. Lehrman, M.D.,
http://www.stopshrinks.org/reading_room/drugs/stop_over-medication.htm
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2007, at 21:40:22
In reply to Citizens commission on Human rights, posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:57:58
> Is run by the scientologists, maybe we should re-direct this to the religion board?
Good idea, here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/724222.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2007, at 21:47:41
In reply to Re: Too many pills - too little TIME, posted by ronaldo on January 19, 2007, at 8:20:26
> Today's OMH treatment ... is ... directed toward ... the maintenance of clients in drug-crippled states by indefinitely continuing them on brain-numbing drugs.
Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize. Even if you're quoting someone else.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ronaldo on January 20, 2007, at 4:48:31
In reply to Re: please be civil » ronaldo, posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2007, at 21:47:41
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 20, 2007, at 7:58:38
In reply to Redirect: Citizens commission on Human rights, posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2007, at 21:40:22
> > Is run by the scientologists, maybe we should re-direct this to the religion board?
>
> Good idea, here's a link:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/724222.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobDR. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...Good idea...]to a member that wrote something like that since the group is >run< by Scientologists, the thread should be redirected to the faith board.
I am asking you to post your rational for redirecting the thread to the faith board where the faith board is concerning the service and worship of God. Your reply here to the member's request to redirect to the faith board has the potential IMO to mean that you agree with that member's statement that since the group is run by Scientologists, that thearfore the use or not of psychotropic drugs is a religious faith issue.
I am asking you in considering your rational to consider that there are also religious groups that advocate that the use of tobacco and/or alcohol is harmful. But is the use of tobacco also a religious issue here? Could not the use of tobacco and/or alcohol be a health issue? And thearfore could not the use of neuroleptic drugs also be a health issue?
Lou Pilder
Posted by ronaldo on January 20, 2007, at 8:31:10
In reply to He's not an MD anymore...., posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:05:04
I admit to being confused...
I entered Nathaniel S Lehrman into my search engine and came up with the following...
redflagsweekly.com - RFW Thursday Report
DR. Nathaniel S. Lehrman is the former Clinical Director of the Kingsboro Psychiatric Center in Brooklyn ...
http://www.redflagsweekly.com/Thursday_report/2002_august15.htmlNATHANIEL S. LEHRMAN, M.D.
... would be helped greatly. Nathaniel S. Lehrman, M.D. is former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric ...
http://www.redflagsweekly.com/lehrman/2002_nov28P.htmlREDFLAGSDAILY.COM - NATHANIEL S. LEHRMAN, M.D.
... which cited Dr. Balint: "The MD as a Drug: the Role of Trust in Strengthening His ... Nathaniel S. Lehrman, M.D., 10 Nob Hill Gate, ...
http://www.redflagsdaily.com/lehrman/2003_feb19.htmlProgressive Convergence: Teen Screen Evaluations and Review by Dr. ...
Nathaniel S. Lehrman, M.D., 10 Nob Hill Gate, Roslyn NY 11576; 516/626-0238;
http://www.progressiveconvergence.com/review-dr-lehrman-md.htmMore on Robert Whitaker's book
Reply to review by Nathaniel S. Lehrman, MD: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/436 ...
http://www.namiscc.org/Editorial/2002/RobertWhitaker.htmEditorial
Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, comments on some of the problems of modern psychiatry in his reply to Larry Goldman's review of Robert Whitaker's book, ...
http://www.namiscc.org/Editorial/index.htmNovember/December 1998 Medical Sentinel
Patient Relationship Alive Under Managed Care Reviewed by Nathaniel S. Lehrman, MD Trust Betrayed -- Inside the AARP Reviewed by Delbert H.
http://www.jpands.org/hacienda/v3n6.html
TeenScreen-another gross distortion
... mental illness can create psychiatric symptoms,? according to Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric ...
http://onlinejournal.com/health/080605Pringle/080605pringle.htmlThe Drug Treatment Of Depression Is One Of The Greatest Fallacies In ...
Dr. Nathaniel S. Lehrman is the former Clinical Director of the Kingsboro Psychiatric Center in Brooklyn ...
http://www.happinessonline.org/CommonSenseMoralCode/p7.htmWeb Results 11-20 of 433. Powered By Ask.com
Reply to Goldman's MedGenMed Book Review of Mad in America
... by Larry S. Goldman, MD, and other psychiatrist-reviewers, Whitaker is right.[1] ... Nathaniel S. Lehrman, MD, Clinical Director, ...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/436376Evelyn Pringle: TeenScreen - Another Gross Distortion
... illness can create psychiatric symptoms,? according to Dr Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, ...
http://www.sierratimes.com/05/07/30/pringle.htmTeenScreen - Another Gross Distortion
... illness can create psychiatric symptoms,? according to Dr Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, ...
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_evelyn_p_050729_teenscreen___another.htmNovember/December 1998 Medical Sentinel
Patient Relationship Alive Under Managed Care Reviewed by Nathaniel S. Lehrman, MD Trust Betrayed -- Inside the AARP Reviewed by Delbert H.
http://www.haciendapub.com/v3n6.htmlAlbany Medical College: Reunion Weekend Attendees
G. Timothy Johnson, MD '69 ... Nathaniel Lehrman, MD ...
http://www.amc.edu/academic/Alumni/attendees.htmlalumni attendees
Robert Kohn, MD Nathaniel Lehrman, MD Leon Levine, MD General Paul W. Myers, MD ... John Bowker, MD Fred Brandlin, MD Robert ...
http://www.amc.edu/academic/alumni/alumni_attendees.htm
Drug Treatment For Depression Is Dead Wrong 8/31/02
Dr. Nathaniel S. Lehrman is the former Clinical Director of the Kingsboro Psychiatric Center in Brooklyn ...
http://sites.mercola.com/fcgi/pf/2002/aug/31/depression_treatment.htm> & it is not accurate to quote him as an MD, or an authority on psychiatry, let alone medicine without giving all the facts out....
Why then do all the above entries on the internet, five and more years after he lost his licence, refer to him as
'Dr Lehrman'and 'Nathaniel S Lehrman MD' ??? It hardly seems that the loss of his licence to practice has silenced Dr Lehrman neither has it diminished the number of people who value his opinion and wish to listen to him.Can you explain this phenomenon? It was you OWC who brought up the fact of his licence being revoked. Perhaps you can explain how this event has not diminished Dr Lehrman's popularity?
Could it be possible that he was set up?
I ask because I honestly don't know. I had never heard of Nathaniel Lehrman until yesterday...
BTW there are many more references to DR Lehrman and to Nathaniel Lehrman MD but I can't be bothered to copy and paste any more. The above should suffice in making my point.The ball is now in your court OWC. How do you explain the popularity of this man who is a convicted criminal? I suspect that there is more to this story and I would like to hear it.
ronaldo
Posted by ronaldo on January 20, 2007, at 9:18:36
In reply to He's not an MD anymore...., posted by one woman cine on January 19, 2007, at 13:05:04
> & it is not accurate to quote him as an MD, or an authority on psychiatry, let alone medicine without giving all the facts out....
As of 6 August 2005 Dr Lehrman was described in the Online Journal as follows:
Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, Brooklyn NY; former Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, Albert Einstein and SUNY Downstate Colleges of Medicine.
Seems to me that all his qualifications survived intact following the revoking of his licence.
ronaldo
Posted by notfred on January 20, 2007, at 12:22:35
In reply to Re: He's not an MD anymore.... » one woman cine, posted by ronaldo on January 20, 2007, at 9:18:36
> > & it is not accurate to quote him as an MD, or an authority on psychiatry, let alone medicine without giving all the facts out....
>
> As of 6 August 2005 Dr Lehrman was described in the Online Journal as follows:
>
> Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, Brooklyn NY; former Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, Albert Einstein and SUNY Downstate Colleges of Medicine.
>
> Seems to me that all his qualifications survived intact following the revoking of his licence.
>
> ronaldoFORMER.
Posted by ronaldo on January 20, 2007, at 13:14:00
In reply to Re: He's not an MD anymore...., posted by notfred on January 20, 2007, at 12:22:35
> > > & it is not accurate to quote him as an MD, or an authority on psychiatry, let alone medicine without giving all the facts out....
> >
> > As of 6 August 2005 Dr Lehrman was described in the Online Journal as follows:
> >
> > Nathaniel Lehrman, MD, former Clinical Director, Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, Brooklyn NY; former Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, Albert Einstein and SUNY Downstate Colleges of Medicine.
> >
> > Seems to me that all his qualifications survived intact following the revoking of his licence.
> >
> > ronaldo
>
> FORMER.He qualified in 1947. FORMER comes as standard when you get to that age.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 14:03:16
In reply to Sorry Dr Bob and one woman cine (nm), posted by ronaldo on January 20, 2007, at 4:48:31
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 14:09:50
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for a rationale- » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 20, 2007, at 7:58:38
> I am asking you to post your rational for redirecting the thread to the faith board where the faith board is concerning the service and worship of God.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding redirecting to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061228/msgs/724469.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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