Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by blueberry1 on January 7, 2007, at 15:13:03
So I see in case studies that when they give dextroamphetamine to HIV or AIDs patients with depression, a remarkably high percentage of them improve dramatically and rapdily. So what about the rest of us? What, you gotta have a deadly disease before they give you something that can actually make you feel good?
Anyway, I will see a psychiatrist in a couple weeks and want to ask for a stimulant. I have tried Ritalin. I want a different one. I know the stimulants are different from one another, like antidepressants are different from one another. In reading different things it appears on paper that dextroamphetamine is the one with a high potential of mood boost.
I am wondering. How do the stimulants differ from each other in terms of mechanism? For example, does one affect dopamine/norepinephrine but not serotonin? Does another one affect serotonin? Which one is just a reuptake inhibitor? Which one is a neurotransmitter releaser and uptake inhibitor? I seem to do best with things that squirt out more neurotransmitters rather than damming them up, so I'm interested in that particular mechanism.
I'm wondering how Ritalin, Adderall, and Dextroamphetamine differ from one another.
Thanks for all your help! You good folks are so helpful I love it.
blueberry
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 15:38:15
In reply to How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by blueberry1 on January 7, 2007, at 15:13:03
Blueberry I got an e-mail today from someone who has had ECT and been on EMSAM and now the pdoc is giving him Straterra. How can a stimulant not cause anxiety I do not understand that. Love Phillipa
Posted by Mistermindmasta on January 7, 2007, at 16:27:30
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism? » blueberry1, posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 15:38:15
The term "stimulant" is just a name most people associate with caffeine which can cause anxiety.
Adderall makes you feel calmer, happier, more content and lastly (where it goes its name) tends to keep you awake. Stimulants don't just flood your body with adrenaline... in fact a good stimulant will indeed have the effect of making you feel relaxed. Caffeine seems to have given stimulants a bad name as causing anxiety since it causes so much epinephrine and cortisol release.
Posted by TenMan on January 7, 2007, at 17:00:19
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by Mistermindmasta on January 7, 2007, at 16:27:30
Methylphenidate acts more as a DA uptake inhibitor whereas amphetamines in it's varying forms acts to release HT,NE and DA in differing amounts.
As far as effect is conerned, it is as with anything psychiatric, highly individual. For some, adderall is a wonder drug, for others such as myself,it makes me paranoid and anxious at any dose level. I do much better from methylphenidate which gives me a calm and intense focus. I have had both prescribed to me and strongly favored the methyphenidate but in the end found both to exacerbate my drepessive state. Now I stick to caffeine which gives me almost *zero* anxiety even at dose levels upwards 2 grams daily.
Good luck
Ten
Posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 17:10:49
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by Mistermindmasta on January 7, 2007, at 16:27:30
I've tried three. In my case:Ritalin seems to spike on suddenly, akin to a powerful coffee, and then drop off just as abruptly. It is the one most likely to prod me into action. It also definately gives a mood boost- and is the one most likely to give me a slump as it wears off. Higher doses do not feel at all natural to me--tendency to feel driven or fixated.
Dexedrine gave me an incredible mood boost, and felt so warm and nice that it felt downright unfamiliar. Kind of almost euphoric, so unnatural. Going to the grocery store is not supposed to be euphoric. I don't recall any significant slump as it wore off. Only used this for a couple weeks.
I'm using adderall now- and it gives a fantastic mood boost and feels the most natural, undrugged, of the three. Dexedrine is one of the ingredients. Not much of a slump when it wears off, either. It definately both comes on and wears off more subtely than ritalin.
I would have to say I haven't experienced anxiety with any of them, except if dose was too high. In fact, oddly, they help my anxiety and tend to make me feel "warmer"- though a large part of my anxiety has to do with worrying about being a sullen slouch. All made me feel much more outgoing and sociable, all three were powerful wakefulness agents, and all aided my attention and concentration. All boosted my mood- dexedrine the most, but again, adderall feels most natural to me.
Posted by Klavot on January 7, 2007, at 17:48:08
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by TenMan on January 7, 2007, at 17:00:19
Wow, that's a lot of caffeine!
Klavot
>Now I stick to caffeine which gives me almost *zero* anxiety even at dose levels upwards 2 grams daily.
>
> Good luck
>
> Ten
Posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 18:20:23
In reply to How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by blueberry1 on January 7, 2007, at 15:13:03
I seem to recall amphetamines dopamine/norepinephrine (but not serotonin), while ritalin just affects either dopamine or norepinephrine-I think norepinephrine, but don't remember for sure. In any case, I do feel that ritalin feels very different from the other two. The more I think it over, the more I believe it's the one most likely to get me feeling jangely, driven, or fixated at higher doses. I think all three that you are asking about work by squirting out neurotransmittors rather than damning them up. I also understand that's why one must take breaks with them, so that the brain can replenish. There was a thread recently which in part addressed this question of mechanism- the one about preventing tolerance to stimulants.
> I am wondering. How do the stimulants differ from each other in terms of mechanism? For example, does one affect ? Does another one affect serotonin? Which one is just a reuptake inhibitor? Which one is a neurotransmitter releaser and uptake inhibitor? I seem to do best with things that squirt out more neurotransmitters rather than damming them up, so I'm interested in that particular mechanism.
>
Posted by cgd092 on January 8, 2007, at 0:50:06
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by TenMan on January 7, 2007, at 17:00:19
Speaking of coffee, I have been on decaf for a looong time, simply because it didn't make sense for me to take lorazepam, citalopram, and other sedating things if I was just gonna ingest a simulant and possibly counteract the anxiolytic effect. Well, after lying on the couch from morning to 1pm, I needed to get going. My meds are particularly sedating it seems latley. So I made a pot of regular coffee. What a mood lift I got! I didn't get anxious, just got moving. A sort of confidence came over me and I did some sewing, something I kept putting off but wanted to do. If I drink caffienated coffee all day long, it loses its effect, but today was great!
--Katy
Posted by cgd092 on January 8, 2007, at 0:54:36
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 17:10:49
You wrote, "In fact, oddly, they help my anxiety and tend to make me feel "warmer""
I've never taken any prescription simulants (just coffee.) I wonder what they would do with my anxiety? Make it worse, or have a paradoxical effect you describe above. The word "warmer" is interesting because when my depression/anxiety abates, I have used that word to describe the feeling. Warm and fuzzy. More at peace, and a 'I'm okay, you're okay' kind of feeling. Sense of well-being. Which of course vanishes in depression/anxiety. Where it goes I don't know. It was just there a while ago!-Katy
Posted by blueberry1 on January 8, 2007, at 4:34:07
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by TenMan on January 7, 2007, at 17:00:19
So the stimulants worsened your depression? I have heard of that happening. I don't understand it, but from what I have seen there is the potential to worsen depression with any drug.
In what ways did it worsen your depression. How did it feel? What was the effect that felt bad?
Posted by blueberry1 on January 8, 2007, at 4:39:26
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by cgd092 on January 8, 2007, at 0:54:36
The word "warmer" is interesting because when my depression/anxiety abates, I have used that word to describe the feeling. Warm and fuzzy. More at peace, and a 'I'm okay, you're okay' kind of feeling. Sense of well-being.
>
> -Katy
>
>
>Exactly! I have felt that. When I feel good I tell people I feel warm and fuzzy and fine. I do feel like my whole body is warmer, inside and out, and it's nice.
It happened a week ago. I took a scoop of whey protein powder. A couple hours later I swear my depression just vanished. I felt warm and fuzzy and just fine. I only feel that way maybe one or two days out of a whole year.
Anyway, the next day the whey protein powder didn't do a thing. It was a one day wonder. What a tease.
Posted by kotsunega on January 8, 2007, at 5:10:10
In reply to How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by blueberry1 on January 7, 2007, at 15:13:03
Blueberry and all,
This handy reference (see link below) should help you determine what drug affects which neurotransmitters, and to what degree, rudimentarily speaking.
This chart has been invaluable to me. I hope it is to you all too. Note that drugs are listed first by generic name, and in a following list by brand name, so you can look them up either way.
Enjoy!
http://sl.schofield3.home.att.net/medicine/psychiatric_drugs_chart.html
K.
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 9:53:05
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism?, posted by cgd092 on January 8, 2007, at 0:54:36
I get the impression precription stimulants could either help or worsen anxiety, depending on dose, a person's physiology, and what the nature of the anxiety is. And they raise heart rate- a person who already has high heart rate and high blood pressure probably won't feel better by raising up even further. Mine tends to be so low that doctors have often double-checked themselves when they test it during check-ups. A lot of my own anxiety has to do with feeling incompetent plus overwhelmed and worrying about it, as well as feeling like a hopeless classic wallflower type- the prescription stimulants, especially the amphetamine ones, really address that. I am able to focus in on something, engage an activity without my mind flitting all over the place worrying about everything else I'm not doing. All of the stimulants also encourage me to be much more outgoing and lively, which is a humungous help in social situations. When I used the word "warmer", I guess in this usage I meant to describe "friendly and more assured" as opposed to cranky, crabby, harried, and worried. So a greater well-being. In any case, I am pretty positive that a too-high dose would get agitating and feel quite unnatural. But I've read that stimulants may work on a bell-shaped curve- too little doesn't do much, and way too much also doesn't do much that is helpful. As if the brain just gets overwhelmed and exhausted when doses are too high. (I wish I could remember where I saw that.)> You wrote, "In fact, oddly, they help my anxiety and tend to make me feel "warmer""
>
>
> I've never taken any prescription simulants (just coffee.) I wonder what they would do with my anxiety? Make it worse, or have a paradoxical effect you describe above. The word "warmer" is interesting because when my depression/anxiety abates, I have used that word to describe the feeling. Warm and fuzzy. More at peace, and a 'I'm okay, you're okay' kind of feeling. Sense of well-being. Which of course vanishes in depression/anxiety. Where it goes I don't know. It was just there a while ago!
>
> -Katy
>
>
>
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 9:54:49
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism? » cgd092, posted by blueberry1 on January 8, 2007, at 4:39:26
What a shame about the protein powder!
That would have been such a great help.
> Exactly! I have felt that. When I feel good I tell people I feel warm and fuzzy and fine. I do feel like my whole body is warmer, inside and out, and it's nice.
>
> It happened a week ago. I took a scoop of whey protein powder. A couple hours later I swear my depression just vanished. I felt warm and fuzzy and just fine. I only feel that way maybe one or two days out of a whole year.
>
> Anyway, the next day the whey protein powder didn't do a thing. It was a one day wonder. What a tease.
>
>
Posted by stargazer on January 8, 2007, at 23:56:11
In reply to Re: How Do Stimulates Differ in Mechanism? » blueberry1, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 9:54:49
Just reading about ADD and treatment with stimulants...this MD, Hallowell, is the expert on adult ADD for anyone interested.
This is the end of the thread.
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