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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 11:56:03
At least that's the verdict of this professor I saw at Willow View, the thing is I don't know why I'm unhappy and I have no reason to be.
I went to Willow View day care centre because my psychiatrist was refusing to treat me any more as an outpatient and the mirtazapine wasn't working and I was hoping that this Professor might have some ideas on medications but that was not the case at all.
The first time I saw him, which, was disconcerting because there were about four of them there doing the review, he kept drumming his fingers on his know (not sure why) but it was unnerving and then accused me of wanting to be in control of everything. I said that wasn't true, I'm not a control freak but I like to have some input into what medication I try. In any event he refused to prescribe anything new other than Mirtazapine inspite of my insistence that it wasn't working. He just told me he didn't think any medication would work even though I had told him that it had worked in the past. These were his comments to me during our meetings.
That I wanted to be in control.
That I was addicted to the mental health services and why didn't I just go away and live my life.
That what I am after doesn't exist. Even though I know it does because I've experienced it. That feeling of being content and just enjoying life without constantly feeling that something is wrong.
That medicine won't work for me and that many cancer patients after failed drug trials just stop medication therapy altogether and go away and just try to enjoy the remainder of their years.
Because I'd tried to make the best of the Willow View situation and contribute to the therapy sessions and share my experiences with other mental health patients, he even made that into something negative and said
he found it worrying how readily I'd embraced being with "mental health patients"
His final conclusion was that I am not "depressed" and that I am just a very unhappy, troubled person and that there are lots of unhappy people out there so I should just go away and get on with it :-(
The thing is I have absolutely no reason to be unhappy and I don't think I am particularly negative about life or ever was.
Fortunately I did have Zyprexa stashed up to help me now and again but when I told him that it did help he even made me feel bad about that saying "so would cocaine". I've never taken cocaine nor would I but he made me feel like a pill popping junky.
Just wanted to get the above off my chest.
Denise
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 12:07:45
In reply to Not depressed - just a very unhappy person, posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 11:56:03
Oh Denise that's horrible. How hard for you to feel bad and have someone basically tell you it's all in your head. And that comment about Cancer patients was horrible too.
What is Willow View an inpatient hospital?
Do you see a therapist? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 12:10:42
In reply to Not depressed - just a very unhappy person, posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 11:56:03
So no doctor was involved? Sorry I missed the part about day program. Love Phillipa can you find another doc?
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2007, at 16:14:57
In reply to Not depressed - just a very unhappy person, posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 11:56:03
I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience with that doctor. Everything he said to you served to sabotage your efforts at recovery of your mental health. I'm glad you were able to maintain your composure during and after the visit so that you didn't internalize what this doctor had to say to you. I've read some of your descriptions of what you experienced during relapse. It sounds very much like a biologically-based MDD to me.
People who have suffered MDD for many years and have seen very little to encourage them that they might one day be cured might indeed be very unhappy. What else could this doctor possibly expect? The sooner you are able to purge yourself of this doctor's undermining comments, the healthier you will be. He was wrong.
- Scott
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 3, 2007, at 18:03:38
In reply to Re: Not depressed - just a very unhappy person » deniseuk190466, posted by SLS on January 3, 2007, at 16:14:57
Denise, do not take to heart what this doc said. It was just one person's opinion. I suggest that you research and find another doctor. There is someone else out there to help you, plenty of doctors. There is always hope.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 3, 2007, at 18:04:34
In reply to Re: Not depressed - just a very unhappy person » deniseuk190466, posted by SLS on January 3, 2007, at 16:14:57
Hey Scott, I miss your opinion on my posts. I think you are one of the most insightful and kind people on this board. Please add your thoughts if possible. Thanks man, Michael
Posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 18:28:58
In reply to Re: Not depressed - just a very unhappy person » deniseuk190466, posted by SLS on January 3, 2007, at 16:14:57
Scott,
I love you :-) you always know the right things to say.
What worries me though is that the position that this man holds. I am fortunate in that I have seen some good psychiatrists in the past, ones that have encouraged me, listened to me and reassured me. So I know that they are out there and that I am know that I do suffer from something (not sure what exactly) but I know that it is not all in my mind. However, if I was a more passive person who had not had the good fortune to have had medication work in the past and who had not had the good fortune to have had other opinions (which differed from him), then this man would make me want to give up all hope, or might, make me really doubt and question what I was feeling.
It scares me that this person (who may be academically qualified) is so short on people skills and yet is ultimately responsible for so many mentally ill patients.
It also concerns me that his belief seems to be that if you aren't either Schitzophrenic or Bipolar then you don't have a valid mental illness. This centre seems to think that if you are just depressed and still functional then the agenda is to pull you off medication altogether and make you think your way out of it.
And from what I've heard in the US this is becoming the trend, that they are trying to get people off medication completely and give them CBT instead.
I can't help feeling I think because of the way I feel rather than the other way around. If I feel ok then my thoughts are ok.
Anyway, thanks for the nice response and glad to hear that you are doing well on your current medicine regime.
Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 18:36:42
In reply to Re: Not depressed - just a very unhappy person, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 12:10:42
Hi Phillipa,
I have been going to Willow View Day care centre at the suggestion of my psychiatrist who felt I might benefit from going there. I'm not sure why as the place has been set up really to get people out and engaging with the outside world. So they do Art Therapy, Baking therapies and offer other classes such as "Coping with Depression and Anxiety". It is also supposed to help get people out and about again.
The thing is I've always worked so have always been able to get out and about.
This proffessor is the so called expert there and I guess he thinks that the fact that I've always been able to work means I'm not that bad. But I know what I feel like when I'm completely off medication and it scares me. I know I need to take some form of medication. I have been off medication at different intervals and I've felt awful although have been able to function. I manage to get myself to work but that's about it really. I know though that there are people who are worse off than me and whos depression is more severe. But I still believe I suffer from something, even though I can still function.
I have discharged myself from Willow View now so I have another appointment with my psychiatrist, this time I'm taking my mum with me for support :-)Thanks for responding.
Denise
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2007, at 20:01:18
In reply to SLS, posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 3, 2007, at 18:04:34
> Hey Scott, I miss your opinion on my posts. I think you are one of the most insightful and kind people on this board. Please add your thoughts if possible. Thanks man, Michael
:-)
Thanks, Michael.
Your positive comments come at a good time. I really appreciate them. I've been having a tough time with maintaining a positive outlook. My meds began to work for a few weeks, but then pooped-out. I was convinced that I was on my way to a remission - or at least a 50% recovery. A 50% improvement would make a huge difference in my life, including my ability to return to work and develop a social life. For now, I am limited on mental energy. I can read and respond to very few posts.
I'll try to pick a few of your posts to respond to in the future. You are so active when you post, it is hard for me to focus on what might be the issue that is most important to you. You ask some great questions. I usually feel incapable of giving you great answers.
Continue to be persistent. I hope the year 2007 provides you with the answers that you have been looking for. A cure would be nice.
- Scott
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 3, 2007, at 21:28:24
In reply to Re: SLS » UgottaHaveHope, posted by SLS on January 3, 2007, at 20:01:18
Scott: Your mind is so sharp it is hard to believe anything is wrong. I am sorry your meds pooped out like that. I hope you remain upbeat, a lot of people love and need you on this board.
Let me ask your opinion. Seroquel was the first out of 20+ meds to help with anxiety, sort of blunted things. However, when I became worked up about a financial problem, the Seroquel no longer calms me down, even though I increased from 25mg to 400mg. I go see my pdoc tomorrow: Would you keep taking the Seroquel, hoping it will finally work, or go ahead and try Emsam? Thanks man.
Posted by SLS on January 4, 2007, at 6:46:29
In reply to Re: SLS Q - reply, posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 3, 2007, at 21:28:24
> Scott: Your mind is so sharp it is hard to believe anything is wrong.
lol. Got you fooled too!
> Let me ask your opinion. Seroquel was the first out of 20+ meds to help with anxiety, sort of blunted things.
Anxiety is not anxiety is not anxiety. Have you been diagnosed with GAD?
> However, when I became worked up about a financial problem, the Seroquel no longer calms me down,
That's real life. Drugs will not provide immunity from a normal and healthy anxiety reaction to a real stressor. However, it is the goal to prevent the anxiety reaction from reaching an unhealthy level that is amplified beyond what might be commensurate with the event.
> even though I increased from 25mg to 400mg.
It is my impression that low dosages of Seroquel are just as effective as higher dosages to treat anxiety that is not a part of a schizoid disorder or OCD.
How did Klonopin and Ativan treat you?
> I go see my pdoc tomorrow: Would you keep taking the Seroquel, hoping it will finally work, or go ahead and try Emsam? Thanks man.
If it were me, I would continue with an optimized dose of seroquel - probably 100mg in divided doses throughout the day - while you continue to search for a treatment that perhaps targets more effectively the dynamics of the anxiety disorder itself.
Effexor?
Paxil?
Nardil?
- Scott
Posted by Quintal on January 4, 2007, at 8:36:41
In reply to Not depressed - just a very unhappy person, posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 11:56:03
Hi Denise,
I've been wondering how to reply for a while without sounding too negative about the NHS but there isn't really a way. I had a similar experience with a professor of psychiatry at Darlington Memorial Hospital. I was lucky (?) enough to come away with prescription for Edronax (reboxetine) though which provoked an awful mixed state anxiety/panic reaction which I endured for weeks. He refused to see me again after I reported this to my pdoc and stopped taking it without his permission.
I had a similar experience with moclobemide that you're having with miratzapine. When I asked the locum pdoc if we could switch to another med she told me that my doctor had chosen the right medication and that I should stick with it for now (I had already been taking it for six months with no response at that point). My doctor did not choose moclobemide, she prescribed it at my request.
A pair of bullies (there's no better adjective unfortunately) took over the local mental health team and discharged me so I'm now in the same position as yourself.
>That medicine won't work for me and that many cancer patients after failed drug trials just stop medication therapy altogether and go away and just try to enjoy the remainder of their years.
What he really means is "you've stepped on my ego and there's nothing more I'm *willing* to do for you".
>Fortunately I did have Zyprexa stashed up to help me now and again but when I told him that it did help he even made me feel bad about that saying "so would cocaine". I've never taken cocaine nor would I but he made me feel like a pill popping junky.
Hmmm........ if he's trying to make out you're the junkie for popping so many pills then I wonder what he thinks that makes the person who prescribed them look like? A drug pusher - Big Pharma pimp of some kind? Sounds like a very myopic view to take.
>The thing is I have absolutely no reason to be unhappy and I don't think I am particularly negative about life or ever was.
That's the hallmark of depression. I wonder why he didn't spot it himself being a professor and all?
Some pdocs can be really spiteful if they feel threatened, or even if they're just having a bad day. Sounds like you've been a convenient scapegoat and I really feel for you.
Have you tried opiates (not in combination with Nardil obviously)? I've found that a couple of Paramol or Nurofen Plus (which contain codeine) lifts my mood nicely as have some others in the UK who post here. It may not be a long-term solution but they can provide much needed relief in a crisis.
Q
Posted by deniseuk190466 on January 5, 2007, at 10:27:07
In reply to Re: Not depressed - just a very unhappy person » deniseuk190466, posted by Quintal on January 4, 2007, at 8:36:41
Q,
Thanks for the note of encouragement and support. On my first session with the Professor, when he told me he thought I wanted to be in control all of the time, I did retort "I want to have some control over my medication afterall you people are not Gods or Deities". Then he started saying that as I obviously had such a huge problem with the mental health services why didn't I just go away forget all about them. I told him I don't have a problem with Mental Health Services just some of the psychiatrists, I have had good experiences (with the Private ones anyway)
I think the fact that sometimes I do speak my mind and the fact that I do like to have some say in what medication I try goes against me. Afterall, if I am well enough to actively (obsessively I have to admit) look up drugs on the internet then I can't be that bad and bang off desperate emails to psychiatrists (which I do). If I was really bad then I would be completely passive. Or would I? I'm confused.
My mum says I only like the Private ones as they are more likely to go along with me because they are getting paid for it. I guess there is a point in that but the Private ones have generally seemed to be more encouraging, more supportive and more inclined to take a few risks.
I can't believe you took a drug for six months when you weren't responding to it. I don't have that kind of patience or perhaps I just feel more desperate. Sometimes, I'm not sure if my behaviour is out of desperation or impatience. I know sometimes I feel so desperate that I feel like I cannot carry on a moment longer and that makes me impatient. If I take a new drug and don't feel any benefit after three weeks I start to get really edgy and my reaction is that I want to try something new because I can't go on like this. I know this makes me a difficult patient to treat.
I haven't tried Opiates but I do have Zyprexa on standby. Thanks for the suggestion.
I find what you've told me about your experience worrying. What stands out is that they regard themselves as the experts even though you who are suffering with the condition is the ultimate expert, the nurse you spoke to was just paying lip service, she didn't understand and most of all wasn't hearing you! Your experience of the NHS seems to reflect mine and my experience of Willow View has been "The Professor knows best, we all bow down to the Professor"This Professor even told one woman she was taking too many drugs and that most of his colleagues would refuse to treat her on the basis of this! This woman is still depressed and anxious so I don't think it was very reassuring for her to be told this.
I do get confused though, I know that the more depressed and anxious I am feeling then the more distorted, desperate and irrational my thoughts become, therefore, when I'm in that state my judgement is impaired. If my judgement is impaired then who am I to decide what medication I should be taking. I really don't know anymore.
So where do you stand now?
Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on January 5, 2007, at 11:54:21
In reply to Re: Just one person's opinion, posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 3, 2007, at 18:03:38
U Gotta Have Hope,
Thanks for your encouragement. I just know that ultimately it's not the Doctors fault, they don't have that magic pill and basically they are only as good as the medications that they presribe.
What they can be (to help) though, is supportive, encouraging, sympathetic and they could manage to say the right words, like "You will get better", "there is something out there". This Professor gave me none of that, all he gave me were negative responses (some might say realistic???) which is that this contradicts his theories on negative thinking and how they control feelings. Like when he said why didn't I just accept I was never going to get any better than I was, I said to him well "what about positive thinking". Then is he advocating realistic, posivite thinking and am I in an unrealistic, positive thinking mode.?
He even seemed to decry me for going to Vancouver to try out rTMS but even though it didn't work, I don't feel negative about the experience. I wasn't too bad at the time so I sort of enjoyed the trip and I made the most out of the shops and sight seeing etc. So here I am trying to be positive about that and he turns it into something negative! Again this doesn't make sense as he advocates positive thinking and yet doesn't seem to dish it out himself!
I mean should I be thinking "I'm never going to get better but I should just try and make the most of it" Is that what I should think. Or "Well I feel awful and sick and crap, I don't know why but I should just accept that and get on with it"
I do try and think like the above but I also think "I just have to get on with it but in the meantime I have to keep searching for something that might work"
God I'm confused.
Denise
Posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2007, at 8:31:23
In reply to To Phillipa, posted by deniseuk190466 on January 3, 2007, at 18:36:42
Hi Denise
Well one thing's for sure, with 'Professors' like that, how is anyone supposed to get well? Even if I wasn't depressed I think I would be after being spoken too like that. Quintal is right, I think it's all to do with ego.
Ed
This is the end of the thread.
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