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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
I have a panic disorder that gets very out of control so i've become accustomed to seeing the inside of ERs. Unlike most panic patients im also being treated for AD/HD-I with dexedrine. I realize this sounds strange but really i have panic regardless of if im taking a stimulant or ssri or snri or most anything.
Yesterday afternoon i went to the ER in a full on panic attack over some imaginery problem that didnt exist, but thats the way panic is. As per usual the second i tell them im taking dexedrine i get a blood test. This is their attempt to be sneaky at checking my amphetamine metabolite level without asking for a urine test. If you're prescribed stimulants you're assumed to be an abuser right off the bat.
The doctor comes in and basically says "you're in here for panic alot" and then starts talking about benzo addiction. Im prescribed xanax by my doctor i just havent had any the last few days. So once again im assumed to be a drug abuser. During this whole time i've made no mention of benzos to any staff member of the hospital in any way. The doctor talks to me about my extensive history of psychiatric drug use and then says he's going to talk to his shrink. (in reality probably checking on my blood test)
He comes back 15 minutes later and asks me "ever tried zoloft". I seriously briefly laughed at that point, he's asking a guy who's taken 300mg of effexor + 30mg of remeron at once if he wants to try another SSRI. This was ridiculous beyond words and i think he realized that and dropped the notion entirely. Finally, im told he wont give me anything to take home but he'll give me "something to calm down and help you sleep". So i agree since i have no other option at this point.
This is where the fun starts. A nurse comes in and starts filling a needle. I ask exactly what im getting and he says "benadryl and diazer...." i dont catch the end of the last word(this was a severe screw up on my part). I ask "what exactly is that" and the nurse replies "oh its something we use alot for anxiety, calms people down".
What the nurse really said was droperidol. If i would have heard the "dol" part you can be sure the IV would have come out of my arm forcefully and i would have been out of that hospital as quick as i could get my clothes on. Yes, thats right they gave a panic patient a powerful anti-psychotic/tranquilizer.
I was instantly very messed up and this part becomes a blur but im told to put my clothes on and i can go home. I some how manage to call and order a taxi and then wait 20 minutes in the 25 degree weather falling asleep standing up. The cab never comes and im so messed up im seeing double. Some how i manage to call a family member and after another round of falling asleep standing up in the cold and having people stare at me i finally get to go home and sleep for 18 hours.
Im so angry at all of this on so many levels i cant even explain. If i had the money to afford an attorney the doctor would have a court summons in his hand right now.
Not only was giving me droperidol grossly inappropriate they then let me loose into the world completely screwed up. Im fairly certain this was a vindictive act on the part of the ER doctor because he perceived me as taking part in "drug seeking behaviour".
Posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2006, at 22:22:51
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
Oh that is horrible. I'm sure you will call the hospital administration and report the ER doc. Don't think malpractice is going to fly as it has to cause permanent and lasting damage. Maybe PTSD? Love Phillipa
Posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:40:08
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER » dbc, posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2006, at 22:22:51
> Oh that is horrible. I'm sure you will call the hospital administration and report the ER doc. Don't think malpractice is going to fly as it has to cause permanent and lasting damage. Maybe PTSD? Love Phillipa
Oh i realize that sueing really wouldnt work its just i would seriously enjoy making this guy uncomfortable. But since its illegal for me to inject him with a powerful anti-psychotic and let him loose in the middle of a city, a court summons/investigation would be my only recourse.
Posted by med_empowered on December 11, 2006, at 22:48:35
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:40:08
wow. I find most docs to be horrendously spiteful towards people taking psychiatric meds of any sort, especially controlled ones. We're told, as patients, to follow our doctor's directions and that meds can help, etc. and then we're told that we're drug addicts b/c of the meds being prescribed.
It is ridiculous.
Anyway, I say call the hospital administration. Alot of states require informed consent for antipsychotics, and an injection of droperidol is *NOT* ever appropriate treatment for panic. The only justification I can think of is that the AP would neutralize the dexedrine, but that would *only* be appropriate in cases of amphetamine-psychosis or anxiety induced by excessive or illegal use of amphetamines.
This dude sucks. He shouldn't be allowed to punish patients just because he disapproves of their medications. Call the hospital. Call your own p-doc. Call your state's law line (most states have ones that field questions on certain days). Check out allexperts.com and see if anyone there can help you.
If you really want to be vengeful...post his info on here, or babble it to some people. I imagine we could flood the hospital's email and/or phone lines.
Good luck!
Posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2006, at 22:53:58
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by med_empowered on December 11, 2006, at 22:48:35
Med what a great idea!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by rip van periwinkle on December 11, 2006, at 23:57:29
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
so much for a "helping" profession
glad you're safe
Posted by med_empowered on December 12, 2006, at 2:02:57
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
I know that most of us are wary of scientologists, but...they're one of the few groups of people willing to help out mental patients. Anyway, there's a group linked to scientology (but also to intellectuals like thomas szasz) that might help you out:
www.cchr.com
its the citizen's commision on human rights. They have an online form you can fill out if you feel you have been the victim of psychiatric abuse. They seem good about repsonding to people who fill it out, so I think it might be worth a shot.
Posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 6:30:25
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
I'm sorry that happened.
Do you think it's possible that it was "diazepam"?
I think you should look into some alternative ways to deal with your anxiety. Check out the Alternative board. Have you try cognitive behavioural therapy or hyponosis?
You should write to the ombudsman at the hospital about what happened.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 6:33:20
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER » dbc, posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2006, at 22:22:51
> Oh that is horrible. I'm sure you will call the hospital administration and report the ER doc. Don't think malpractice is going to fly as it has to cause permanent and lasting damage. Maybe PTSD? Love Phillipa
LMAOF! You really like your malpractice suits in the States don't you? Come on!
Maxime
Posted by Declan on December 12, 2006, at 14:10:26
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 6:33:20
Droperidol sounds like it escaped from the reptile section of the museum.
It must have been a while since he used that, but always good to have on hand.
Neuroleptics and discipline.
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2006, at 17:34:38
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 6:33:20
Yup and there is a lot of gross negligence. People with casts on too tight that lose a limb. See it everyday here. So what's wrong with it anyway? Love Phillipa
Posted by saturn on December 12, 2006, at 18:11:28
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
>
>>He comes back 15 minutes later and asks me "ever tried zoloft".Unreal.
Posted by saturn on December 12, 2006, at 18:25:55
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
I am truly sorry to hear of your experience, dbc.
I wonder if they didn't treat you without consent. I'm guessing you were likely competent to refuse treatment.
The important thing is that you're OK, I hope. I've been to the ER with my heart practically exploding due to Dexedrine a few times and though it's not exactly the same situation I can kinda relate and realize it's no fun.
I hope you are able to put this behind you (as best as possible) and conquer your anxiety/panic problems. Peace (literally)...Saturn.
Posted by madeline on December 12, 2006, at 19:00:27
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
It sounds like malpractice to me.
Droperidol also has a black box warning on it from the FDA about cardiac arrhythmias. Not perhaps the best drug to give someone on dexedrine.
It's all a part of the treat-em and street-em approach.
Does your doc have a service that you could call that would meet you in the ER?
Sometimes that helps to get you the care you need.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. So very very sorry.
maddie
Posted by RN320 on December 12, 2006, at 19:53:41
In reply to My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by dbc on December 11, 2006, at 22:11:52
I am so sorry that you had to endure such poor medical and nursing practice in the ER. I had an experience in an ER that almost cost me my life because I was assumed to be nuts. In August, I lost consciousness and fell down my uncarpeted stairs (all eleven of them) face first. When I woke up, my stairway walls looked like a crime scene. I was bleeding profusely from facial wounds and a huge hematoma on my one leg. My back door was open and my nextdoor neighbor was cutting my lawn and happened to walk by as I was coming up the stairs. I got help and my mom drove me to the local ER.
In triage, the minute I started listing my meds and mentioned that I was being treated for drug resistant depression the two nurses rolled their eyes, looking at one another. I was less than coherent at the time and they attributed all of this to mental illness. My Mom had to explain to them that I was actually pretty sharp and that they'd better do something. They kept me out in triage a long time for someone who has just sustained a head injury, lost consciousness and was bleeding like a stuck pig. An ER doc finally came out and the nurses started to talk to him. The only words that I heard were "depression" and "psych meds" and this confirmed that I was already labeled crazy. The doc was pleasant and did a CT scan right away. My injury was severe enough that he decided to admit me overnight. I told him about my cardiac history and that I was currenlty on EMSAM, etc. and he didn't seem all that concerned.
While I was being transported from the ER to an observation unit (unmonitored) I had either a cardiac or respiratory arrest (we'll never really know which happened first because I was not on a monitor as I should have been) and woke up in the ICU with CPR bruises all over my chest. You would think that someone critically ill (as I was very briefly) would be treated as an ICU patient, but I was labeled a head case by the nurses and ICU docs. I was really angry because I'm an ex-ICU nurse myself, and would never have thought that the healthcare profession, who are so educated, could be so stupid and judgemental, leading to gross incompetance. It just speaks volumes to discrimination of people with mental illnesses.
So, as horrible as your story is (made the hair on the back of my neck stand up!) it's totally believeable and again- I'm sorry that you had to go through it. I hope you're feeling better now.
/m
Posted by tessellated on December 12, 2006, at 20:52:59
In reply to I hear you!!!, posted by RN320 on December 12, 2006, at 19:53:41
I cant stand the ER.
Though I'm not sure if its' the california health care system or the freak out's they have with psy meds.
I was force hospitalized during heartbreak with cops and EMT's in my house without my permission, who took me to the ER without my consent, and there wanted to medicate me and perform a barrage of useless tests. The EMT's intimidated me in order to make me shut up so they could converse on taco fillings-i'm serious.
At the ER I eventually forced my way out by involving security and asking them if they would beat me with their baton's in order to make me stay. The security guy was the only "sane" person i dealt with. I asked if they had a "right" to hold me, and that I would leave by force of will if intmidated, so his demeanor (middle age mexican guy) really saved the situation.
I still left forcibly, without a bill, undrugged. OMFG. It took 4 stupid costly trips before i worked out how to do that.
ps: my sense is, you get ativan if you're stressed, non-psychotic, or non drug seeking, or haldol in psy cases. both impair ones ability to reason. haldol (i think) because it doesn't interfere with respiratory conditions/heart rate as much is the safe bet. i had to force them not to hit me with ativan IV. ironic, but sure makes their job easier. just dose em'. take a smoke break...
hopefully we can all avoid that place as much as is possible.
yeah, it would be great to have a friend who's a MD.
otherwise i think one is simply in confrontation with the "system".
l8
Posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 22:50:25
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2006, at 17:34:38
> Yup and there is a lot of gross negligence. People with casts on too tight that lose a limb. See it everyday here. So what's wrong with it anyway? Love Phillipa
Please tell me you are joking.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 22:56:04
In reply to Re: I hear you!!!, posted by tessellated on December 12, 2006, at 20:52:59
I'll admit, I have been mistreated in the ER because of my mental illness label that flashes on my forehead. I was once going through an MS episode and they accused me taking an OD!
But now I do advocacy work and I work in the hospitals and teach doctors and nurses on how to deal with people with mental illness. That we are not mental illnesses! That yes, sometimes a broken arm is just a broken arm!
Try doing some work in the community and get people to understand. Don't just blame the system. CHANGE THE SYSTEM!
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2006, at 23:17:56
In reply to Re: I don't like what I hear!, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 22:56:04
Maxie you sound really really good. Sounds like your meds are working. So are your working? I like what your doing patient advocate. Love Phillipa
Posted by KayeBaby on December 13, 2006, at 0:53:47
In reply to Re: I don't like what I hear!, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 22:56:04
> I'll admit, I have been mistreated in the ER because of my mental illness label that flashes on my forehead. I was once going through an MS episode and they accused me taking an OD!
>
> But now I do advocacy work and I work in the hospitals and teach doctors and nurses on how to deal with people with mental illness. That we are not mental illnesses! That yes, sometimes a broken arm is just a broken arm!
>
> Try doing some work in the community and get people to understand. Don't just blame the system. CHANGE THE SYSTEM!
>
> MaximeI'm not sue happy either but anyone with a licence found to be guilty of vindictive medical treatment should have that licence revoked!
I have recently entered into the medical field and just finished clinicals in the ER as well as with the paramedics.
Dissalusioned?Yes. But I was that way with the friggin level of courtesy and care I witnessed as a hairstylist for 20 years. Least the hairdressers were friendly. :)
I'll do my part, Maxine.
I have been and will continue in this field repeating to myself "I will never become like they are. I will never become like they are...." Ugly personnel that is.But as much as we know that frivolous lawsuits are harming the field, underreporting of poor quality or vindictive care is too.
I too, am sorry you were treated this way dbc.
Please report this to the hospital.
Allow them a chance to address your concern. It is a valid one.Peace,
Kaye
Posted by xbunny on December 13, 2006, at 5:14:18
In reply to Re: My Magical Trip To The ER, posted by med_empowered on December 12, 2006, at 2:02:57
> I know that most of us are wary of scientologists, but...they're one of the few groups of people willing to help out mental patients.
We are all entitled to our opinions but I just dont see how you can suggest that Scientologists in anyway help mental patients.
Bunny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCHR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_claims_in_Scientology_doctrine
Posted by RN320 on December 13, 2006, at 6:51:15
In reply to Re: I don't like what I hear!, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2006, at 22:56:04
Maxime-
You're absolutely right- and deep down inside I'd love to do some advocacy work in that capacity, or something related to the discriminatory Medicare Drug Plans (as they really stink!). The problem for me is that I'm terrified of going to a hospital for anything since this incident. I cancelled an elective surgery after this happened. I had to go to a private radiology center for my follow up CT scans. My doctors now have any bloodwork drawn in their offices so I won't have to go to the hospital. The rehab center I go to is freestanding- I guess I feel the need to put a lot of distance between me and hospitals. Hopefully,in time I'll get over it?Really good suggestion anyway....you're right, the system really needs to be changed and people make the changes.
/m
Posted by Maxime on December 13, 2006, at 12:23:45
In reply to Re: I don't like what I hear!, posted by RN320 on December 13, 2006, at 6:51:15
Some day you will be able to do advocacy work.
The way I have been treated at time is ... so fundamentally wrong. Once you have that psychiatric "stamp" in your file, you are doomed. It's awful. I don't know what they teach doctors.
One time I was in the hospital for a real OD and I overheard the nurses say that I was wasting a bed. That made me feel like ... taking another OD.
There are so many stories out there. I have friends who have been mistreated as well.
I wish I was privy to the "shop talk" that goes on in ERs. Who exactly do they think psych patients are? Do they not realise that they too might become a psych patient some day? Probably not.
You should write a letter to the hospital. You should at least do that.
Take care.
Maxime
> Maxime-
> You're absolutely right- and deep down inside I'd love to do some advocacy work in that capacity, or something related to the discriminatory Medicare Drug Plans (as they really stink!). The problem for me is that I'm terrified of going to a hospital for anything since this incident. I cancelled an elective surgery after this happened. I had to go to a private radiology center for my follow up CT scans. My doctors now have any bloodwork drawn in their offices so I won't have to go to the hospital. The rehab center I go to is freestanding- I guess I feel the need to put a lot of distance between me and hospitals. Hopefully,in time I'll get over it?
>
> Really good suggestion anyway....you're right, the system really needs to be changed and people make the changes.
> /m
Posted by Maxime on December 13, 2006, at 12:28:35
In reply to Re: I don't like what I hear! » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2006, at 23:17:56
> Maxie you sound really really good. Sounds like your meds are working. So are your working? I like what your doing patient advocate. Love Phillipa
When I get angry, I sound "good". :)
I am still very depressed. I think I have responded a little to the meds. I still have the gun held to my head, only I am not so anxious to pull the trigger. So that's the improvement. I am depressed enough to still be suicidal.
I am not working. Not by choice.
I am doing some volunteer work now, but for literacy.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2006, at 12:38:52
In reply to Re: I don't like what I hear! » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on December 13, 2006, at 12:28:35
Maxie that's when you did so good last year the volunteering. Wish you'd turn on your light or would you babbleme? I do miss you. Love Phillipa
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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