![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by FredPotter on December 5, 2006, at 14:20:26
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on December 5, 2006, at 13:16:39
Dr Shipko of the Panic Research Institute (a garden shed somewhere in Pasadena?) says the tolerance refers to side effects, and anxiolytic effects do not fade. That's not what I find. But yes it's easy to get those effects back by tapering off for a bit.
One good thing about coming off Xanax that I've found is the acutely real visualisation abilities I get, which Xanax seems to blunt
I have to admit the feeling when an SSRI kicks in is the BEST. I feel like a jigsaw puzzle that's been put back together, so smooth and cool. But it doesn't last. My best response was to Paxil, but it lasted one afternoon, after a 6 week wait
Fred
Posted by blueberry on December 5, 2006, at 16:44:06
In reply to Are benzos the only drugs that do anything?, posted by FredPotter on December 4, 2006, at 22:52:27
I had a thread on benzos not too long ago. I've watched other threads on benzos over time. There are actually a lot of people who find a dose that keeps working and they no longer build tolerance.
Talk about withdrawals. Benzo withdrawals are lame compared to something like zyprexa. If doctors are concerned about being dependent on a medication, then they should never prescribe antipsychotics.
Posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 17:25:08
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything?, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2006, at 11:05:10
In civilised cultures old poeple have the option of maintenance low dose opiates.
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2006, at 18:43:21
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on December 5, 2006, at 13:16:39
Yes can you tell me anything about it other than it's used for opiod withdrawal. What's it's side effect profile? I doubt my doc will prescribe this either. Seems they all like the atypical antipsychotics.Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2006, at 18:46:18
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything?, posted by FredPotter on December 5, 2006, at 14:20:26
Fred seriously? One day? Then what happened? How did you get one to work? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2006, at 18:48:32
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Phillipa, posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 17:25:08
Declan got room for me? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 5, 2006, at 18:52:50
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything?, posted by blueberry on December 5, 2006, at 16:44:06
I've withdrawn from both conventional benzos and Zyprexa and I've found benzos were the worst, though I hadn't been taking Zyprexa for long.
Zyprexa does have a benzodiazepine-like structure but obviously has a different pharmacological profile to other benzos.
There's someone on this site who claims to be a pdoc looking for Zyprexa withdrawal experiences:
http://www.sixthseal.com/2005/01/zyprexa_olanzapine_experience.htmlQ
Posted by Quintal on December 5, 2006, at 18:59:02
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2006, at 18:43:21
There's some info on side effects here: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a605002.html
I doubt many pdocs would be willing to prescribe it either except under special circumstances.
Q
Posted by yxibow on December 6, 2006, at 1:16:18
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on December 5, 2006, at 18:59:02
> There's some info on side effects here: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a605002.html
>
> I doubt many pdocs would be willing to prescribe it either except under special circumstances.
>
> QWhich I have said before -- but not because of the side effects so much -- protease inhibitors are a real sticky wicket to manage with concomitant depression. They would like to keep their DEA license which allows them to prescribe, pay their malpractice insurance in case someone overdoses on buprenorphine, and generally stay out of the limelight of license auditing of doctors who freely prescribe opiates which while they in the short term help those who have been through a number of medications, are not a part of generalized western psychopharmocological practice.
And also while we are on the subject of ranting that no drug on the market does anything, I have to say that, with no disrespect to individuals on this board, who have been through tireless trials of medications, we are a special population. This is why we are here. This is why people rant about medications because a number of them are treatment refractory.A certain unnamed individual who treats me has remarked that even those with MDD in his practice has largely seen that about 70% of patients respond with the first medication. Those are the millions of people who are not this board.
Thus, this board serves a subset of the community who do not respond to one, but maybe need two or more medications to exist.
And then we get into generalized discussions that all medications are worthless. Which by the way is not generally how things are supposed to be phrased on this board. Because there are people who are taking this "worthless" medication X and are responding to it, for better or worse. Even the placebo effect has responders up to 30% of the time.This is a disclaimer that this reflects my opinion and is not a generalized antisocial reflection upon the members of this community. We all in a way help each other by reporting what is known in the medical community as "case reports." Enough of these reports and one might get a feeling for what a medication might do to them -- but one has to remember that everyone is genetically and environmentally different.
--tidings
Jay
Posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 2:03:35
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Phillipa, posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 17:25:08
Oh yes, PJ, there's room.
I'd tuck depressives into bed and give them a shot of Dilaudid and read them 'The Tale of Tom Kitten'.
How's that for an irresponsible treatment recommendation?
Posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 2:08:23
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything?, posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 2:03:35
Posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 9:34:11
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Quintal, posted by yxibow on December 6, 2006, at 1:16:18
> Which I have said before -- but not because of the side effects so much -- protease inhibitors are a real sticky wicket to manage with concomitant depression. They would like to keep their DEA license which allows them to prescribe, pay their malpractice insurance in case someone overdoses on buprenorphine, and generally stay out of the limelight of license auditing of doctors who freely prescribe opiates which while they in the short term help those who have been through a number of medications, are not a part of generalized western psychopharmacological practice.
There was no suggestion on my part they would refuse to prescribe buprenorphine on grounds of side effects. It is the legal status and social stigma attached to opiates that I suspect would deter many pdocs from even thinking about prescribing them.
>Thus, this board serves a subset of the community who do not respond to one, but maybe need two or more medications to exist.
Well I've certainly responded to many treatments Jay. The problem has generally been lack of long term efficiency with most drugs besides benzos. It is a very common problem and not only to the people posting on this board. For example, I know of several people that live nearby who have had similar experiences to me. They don't post on websites because they have no access to computers and are not computer literate in any case. Most are middle aged or elderly and living alone.
They also have no access to the detailed information we discuss here and no interest in pursuing it. They're working alone in the dark and have no confidence to challenge their GP/pdoc and request alternative meds and treatments unlike most of the people here. In general they trust the medical profession to give them the best treatment and if the almighty Mr.pdoc says this drug works and they suspect it isn't helping them, then they tend to blame themselves - who are they to argue with medical science?
There's an old lady that lives a few doors down my street who has been on Prozac 20mg for about 10 years since her husband died. She admits it stopped working soon after she started taking it but is now afraid of talking to her GP about it after being chastised by a locum for requesting another medication. The locum made her feel guilty that she was taking medication at all and from that point she decided to try and make the best of whatever positive effects it still had.
She would no doubt be classified as a Prozac responder if her GP was required to produce a report on the efficiency of antidepressants in her patients (as I was bizarrely according to my medical notes, although I felt much worse for having taken it myself).
I think it is reasonable to assume there are many more people in a similar position all over the world who are being marked up as treatment responders simply because they are compliant and tell the GP/pdoc mostly what they want to hear.
>And also while we are on the subject of ranting that no drug on the market does anything, I have to say that, with no disrespect to individuals on this board, who have been through tireless trials of medications, we are a special population. This is why we are here. This is why people rant about medications because a number of them are treatment refractory.
I don't think we're ranting that no medication on the market works, rather that there are some very effective drugs even for people who are refractory to first line SSRIs, but access to them seems excessively restricted - as in the case of benzos and stimulants in the UK.
There are people posting on this board who are doing very well on their drug regimen, sometimes even on a single medication and have come to tell us the good news. I'm encouraged by their results, so I don't think were necessarily a subset of treatment resistant patients here on psychobabble.
Q
Posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 13:26:42
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » yxibow, posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 9:34:11
>
> Well I've certainly responded to many treatments Jay. The problem has generally been lack of long term efficiency with most drugs besides benzos. It is a very common problem and not only to the people posting on this board. For example, I know of several people that live nearby who have had similar experiences to me. They don't post on websites because they have no access to computers and are not computer literate in any case. Most are middle aged or elderly and living alone.
>
> They also have no access to the detailed information we discuss here and no interest in pursuing it. They're working alone in the dark and have no confidence to challenge their GP/pdoc and request alternative meds and treatments unlike most of the people here. In general they trust the medical profession to give them the best treatment and if the almighty Mr.pdoc says this drug works and they suspect it isn't helping them, then they tend to blame themselves - who are they to argue with medical science?
>
> There's an old lady that lives a few doors down my street who has been on Prozac 20mg for about 10 years since her husband died. She admits it stopped working soon after she started taking it but is now afraid of talking to her GP about it after being chastised by a locum for requesting another medication. The locum made her feel guilty that she was taking medication at all and from that point she decided to try and make the best of whatever positive effects it still had.
>
> She would no doubt be classified as a Prozac responder if her GP was required to produce a report on the efficiency of antidepressants in her patients (as I was bizarrely according to my medical notes, although I felt much worse for having taken it myself).
>
> I think it is reasonable to assume there are many more people in a similar position all over the world who are being marked up as treatment responders simply because they are compliant and tell the GP/pdoc mostly what they want to hear.
>
That is a very, germane and insightful post. I too sincerely believe there are countless numbers of people suffering while on meds, but remaining silent. There are many who are not computer savvy, or who do not have the energy and motivation to tell the world about what they're feeling. Yes, this is a select group of people with problems on this message board, but I honestly feel it represents the tip of an enormous iceberg of people behind the scenes.A good example would be my sister, who has suffered from depression, anger, and anxiety over the years. She went through a great deal of problems, with the worst times often being coming on and off meds. Then she finally had to go off. She's not working right now, but she doesn't seem to want to go back on them. In the long term, they often caused her serious problems.
As for me, I've tried well over 35 different med combos, with worse and worse results in the past 15 years or so. I can't believe the situation I'm in now, with not only a mental illness, but a litany of serious physical limitations. When healthy, I'm inclined to use computers and analyze my situation and treatment, but most people are probably not.
I was watching a TV show a few nights ago titled something like "I Should be Dead". It showcases little vignettes of people who got themselves into situations from which they miraculously escaped. In this particular case a couple had gone on a hike in the Amazon and got lost. Turns out the woman had been taking an SSRI (which one they didn't bother to reveal) and after about two days become physically ill and unusually suicidal. This is where the show disturbed me. They put forth the laymans' explanation about how someone who is depressed doesn't have enough serotonin and the drugs replace that serotonin. The over simplification was irritating enough to me but I'm used to that one by now. The scary thing was the realization of how withdrawal from a psycotropic is not only not understood, but there's basically no awareness of it in the general population. It was obvious to me that the girl had started to go through a withdrawal, but the show portrayed it has her depression acting up. IMO, it was possibly more of the former, than latter. Anyway, my ultimate point is that the public perception of these diseases as anything more than sadness which can be remedied with a "serotinin pill" that takes it way like aspirin with a headache is very deeply entrenched. Also, the meds I feel, are viewed as quite benign, being very easy to take and discontinue.
One other disturbing media encounter was from listening to news radio the other day. They had a mental health professional interview, to increase awareness I suppose, which is admirable. One statement she made irked me somewhat though: "we have very effective treatments for all these diagnosable diseases". I was quite surprised to hear that. On the one hand you don't want to scare people away from seeking treatment, but on the other, how are we ever going to recognize severe inadequacies in our current treatments?
Posted by FredPotter on December 6, 2006, at 13:58:39
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Quintal, posted by yxibow on December 6, 2006, at 1:16:18
you're absolutely right yxibow. I guess it's just my frustration coming out. Sorry if anybody believed my post Fred
Posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 14:28:50
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Quintal, posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 13:26:42
> I was watching a TV show a few nights ago titled something like "I Should be Dead". It showcases little vignettes of people who got themselves into situations from which they miraculously escaped. In this particular case a couple had gone on a hike in the Amazon and got lost. Turns out the woman had been taking an SSRI (which one they didn't bother to reveal) and after about two days become physically ill and unusually suicidal. This is where the show disturbed me. They put forth the laymans' explanation about how someone who is depressed doesn't have enough serotonin and the drugs replace that serotonin. The over simplification was irritating enough to me but I'm used to that one by now. The scary thing was the realization of how withdrawal from a psycotropic is not only not understood, but there's basically no awareness of it in the general population. It was obvious to me that the girl had started to go through a withdrawal, but the show portrayed it has her depression acting up. IMO, it was possibly more of the former, than latter. Anyway, my ultimate point is that the public perception of these diseases as anything more than sadness which can be remedied with a "serotinin pill" that takes it way like aspirin with a headache is very deeply entrenched. Also, the meds I feel, are viewed as quite benign, being very easy to take and discontinue.
That's something that always worried me about being on meds - what would happen if I was in a plane crash or something and stranded out in the wilderness, trying to survive at the same time as suffering benzo withdrawal? Or even worse, being stranded, having to live off the land and still follow the MAOI diet for 14 days..................
Q
Posted by zmg on December 6, 2006, at 16:23:49
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Quintal, posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 13:26:42
>On the one hand you don't want to scare people away from seeking treatment, but on the other, how are we ever going to recognize severe inadequacies in our current treatments?
Ignorance is bliss. Thats what I love about this site and sites like it: subjective, experience-based information. Reading reports of doctors being surprised by cessation problems with drugs like Effexor really alarmed me. The information printed on the label isn't a very good place to stop.
Posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 16:31:57
In reply to Sudden Med Deprivation » Bob, posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 14:28:50
>
> That's something that always worried me about being on meds - what would happen if I was in a plane crash or something and stranded out in the wilderness, trying to survive at the same time as suffering benzo withdrawal? Or even worse, being stranded, having to live off the land and still follow the MAOI diet for 14 days..................
>
> QThat has crossed my worried mind many times. It's why if I travel, I always take two separate med containers of each drug with me, and keep them in two separate bags (one being a carry on). That way, if something happens to one, at least I have a chance with the other. Of course, more cautious people recommend carrying a prescription for each med you take so you can take it to the pharmacy if need be.
Posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 16:33:34
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » Bob, posted by zmg on December 6, 2006, at 16:23:49
> Ignorance is bliss. Thats what I love about this site and sites like it: subjective, experience-based information. Reading reports of doctors being surprised by cessation problems with drugs like Effexor really alarmed me. The information printed on the label isn't a very good place to stop.I get irritated almost every time I see an article in the press, or a show on TV. It almost always demonstrates how little the public knows.
Posted by yxibow on December 6, 2006, at 18:06:32
In reply to Sudden Med Deprivation » Bob, posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 14:28:50
> > I was watching a TV show a few nights ago titled something like "I Should be Dead". It showcases little vignettes of people who got themselves into situations from which they miraculously escaped. In this particular case a couple had gone on a hike in the Amazon and got lost. Turns out the woman had been taking an SSRI (which one they didn't bother to reveal) and after about two days become physically ill and unusually suicidal. This is where the show disturbed me. They put forth the laymans' explanation about how someone who is depressed doesn't have enough serotonin and the drugs replace that serotonin. The over simplification was irritating enough to me but I'm used to that one by now. The scary thing was the realization of how withdrawal from a psycotropic is not only not understood, but there's basically no awareness of it in the general population. It was obvious to me that the girl had started to go through a withdrawal, but the show portrayed it has her depression acting up. IMO, it was possibly more of the former, than latter. Anyway, my ultimate point is that the public perception of these diseases as anything more than sadness which can be remedied with a "serotinin pill" that takes it way like aspirin with a headache is very deeply entrenched. Also, the meds I feel, are viewed as quite benign, being very easy to take and discontinue.
>
> That's something that always worried me about being on meds - what would happen if I was in a plane crash or something and stranded out in the wilderness, trying to survive at the same time as suffering benzo withdrawal? Or even worse, being stranded, having to live off the land and still follow the MAOI diet for 14 days..................
>
> QIts why I always take extra supplies of medication when I go out the door. Maybe its irrational, maybe its my past fears of 9/11, but I agree with you, I wouldn't want to suffer from withdrawal from my medications. Its also the same reason why I have come to a common ground generally on my prescriptions with my doctor to have a certain prudent number of refills if god forbid anything happened to him and I would have to start explaining everything all over again.
Posted by yxibow on December 6, 2006, at 18:34:21
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » yxibow, posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 9:34:11
> > Which I have said before -- but not because of the side effects so much -- protease inhibitors are a real sticky wicket to manage with concomitant depression. They would like to keep their DEA license which allows them to prescribe, pay their malpractice insurance in case someone overdoses on buprenorphine, and generally stay out of the limelight of license auditing of doctors who freely prescribe opiates which while they in the short term help those who have been through a number of medications, are not a part of generalized western psychopharmacological practice.
>
> There was no suggestion on my part they would refuse to prescribe buprenorphine on grounds of side effects. It is the legal status and social stigma attached to opiates that I suspect would deter many pdocs from even thinking about prescribing them.
Which is what I exactly said above. If you don't have a DEA license, you aren't a psychiatrist. You can't practice and you lose the giant amount of money needed for malpractice insurance and your entire livelyhood. Psychiatrists aren't in it all just for the money. Not the good ones. Not the honest ones I've met. And I've met some not so good ones, so I don't believe that everyone out there is practicing as good as they should by any stretch of the imagination.>
> >Thus, this board serves a subset of the community who do not respond to one, but maybe need two or more medications to exist.
>
> Well I've certainly responded to many treatments Jay. The problem has generally been lack of long term efficiency with most drugs besides benzos. It is a very common problem and not only to the people posting on this board. For example, I know of several people that live nearby who have had similar experiences to me. They don't post on websites because they have no access to computers and are not computer literate in any case. Most are middle aged or elderly and living alone.
I can understand that. But this wasn't about computer literacy one way or the other -- you don't have to be computer literate to join mental health support meetings.
> They also have no access to the detailed information we discuss here and no interest in pursuing it. They're working alone in the dark and have no confidence to challenge their GP/pdoc and request alternative meds and treatments unlike most of the people here. In general they trust the medical profession to give them the best treatment and if the almighty Mr.pdoc says this drug works and they suspect it isn't helping them, then they tend to blame themselves - who are they to argue with medical science?
I sense some frustration with past psychiatrists because if my psychiatrist was behaving like "Dr. God" -- and I have encountered doctors of various specialties in life like that, I certainly wouldn't continue a relationship with them.
> There's an old lady that lives a few doors down my street who has been on Prozac 20mg for about 10 years since her husband died. She admits it stopped working soon after she started taking it but is now afraid of talking to her GP about it after being chastised by a locum for requesting another medication. The locum made her feel guilty that she was taking medication at all and from that point she decided to try and make the best of whatever positive effects it still had.
I'm losing the argument on the locum part -- I think that's a britishism. I didn't say everybody had access to the best and brightest -- that wasn't my argument or was any intention of what I was saying was ad hominem.
> She would no doubt be classified as a Prozac responder if her GP was required to produce a report on the efficiency of antidepressants in her patients (as I was bizarrely according to my medical notes, although I felt much worse for having taken it myself).Well, then that GP shouldn't be prescribing psychotropic medications. Frankly I don't think any GP should be, but if they are, if they're they only doctor in a community, they should be taking plenty of CE courses.
> I think it is reasonable to assume there are many more people in a similar position all over the world who are being marked up as treatment responders simply because they are compliant and tell the GP/pdoc mostly what they want to hear.
I can't argue with that statement -- it spells a little bit of frustration and somewhat of an everything or nothing sense that psychiatrists simply check off things neatly on little boxes. There are again, good and not quite so good doctors.
> >And also while we are on the subject of ranting that no drug on the market does anything, I have to say that, with no disrespect to individuals on this board, who have been through tireless trials of medications, we are a special population. This is why we are here. This is why people rant about medications because a number of them are treatment refractory.
>
> I don't think we're ranting that no medication on the market works, rather that there are some very effective drugs even for people who are refractory to first line SSRIs, but access to them seems excessively restricted - as in the case of benzos and stimulants in the UK.
The UK and its restrictions at least in the NHS system on category substances I will agree with you -- it is no accident that the benzo.org site is there but I won't go further into that because there are people here who believe in it and I've been chastised for saying anything.
> There are people posting on this board who are doing very well on their drug regimen, sometimes even on a single medication and have come to tell us the good news. I'm encouraged by their results, so I don't think were necessarily a subset of treatment resistant patients here on psychobabble.
Again, this wasn't a complete and total generalization and if I made it sound so, it wasn't meant to be. What I meant is the argument that in general when I see these threads that all antidepressants are flawed, there is no such thing as transmitter theories, etc, that is equally generalized.
I'd love to hear good news postings, and you're right, some are equally good. But there's always a human tendency that if everything is going smoothly, there's no reason to say anything.
And in response to the other comment
>That is a very, germane and insightful post. I too sincerely believe there are countless numbers of people suffering while on meds, but remaining silent. There are many who are not computer savvy, or who do not have the energy and motivation to tell the world about what they're feeling. Yes, this is a select group of people with problems on this message board, but I honestly feel it represents the tip of an enormous iceberg of people behind the scenes.
I believe that just as there could be this enormous iceberg of people behind the scenes who are suffering in silence, what about the glass half full idea that there are people who have been suffering in silence but now have found the right match and don't need a particular community ?
I think there is a bit of truth to what we all said and I welcome these arguments but not the generalization that "is medicine X" the only thing that does something. Because we're all different. Because there are also treatment regimes that involve things outside of just medication themselves. Like therapy, which is vastly underutilized in this country for certain because of our managed care system, but could equally bring treatment to those, suffering in silence.-- Jay
Posted by linkadge on December 6, 2006, at 18:37:20
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » zmg, posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 16:33:34
From what I have read and experienced, complete tollerance does not always develop to benzos.
I remember taking clonazepam monotherapy for an anxeity disorder. I a constant dose for nearly 6 months, with consistant theraputic effect.
Tollerance built to the subjective well being that the drug produced, but overall, my anxiety had been kept under controll with a constant dose.
Withdrawl was straightforward. It was not like SSRI withdrawl at all. SSRI withdral made me want to jump off the nearest ledge. Benzo withdrawl just made me anxious.SSRi withdral was so much significantly worse than benzo withdrawl it was not funny. SSRI withdrawl was whole body, I had to relearn how to walk, how to speak, etc etc, and my god it lasted forever. Infact I still consider myself going through SSRI withdrawl years later. There are problems I am having now that a single dose of an SSRI will ameliorate.
Anyhow, enought of that.
Just give doctors enough time, and they'll gain the proper prespective on the whole SSRI's addictive/benzo's not addictive issue.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2006, at 18:41:13
In reply to Sudden Med Deprivation » Bob, posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 14:28:50
Me too I've wondered the same thing. But years ago I cold turkeyed valium and alchohol . I put myself in the hospital to give them up. But I was in my 20's knowing nothing and had just had a baby two months ago and I thought thank God I'll finally get to stay in bed and get some sleep. She's been transferred to a hospital as she was crying 24 hours a day. That was before they said not the drink or take meds when pregnant so I'm sure it was with drawal for her. But the hospital said you get up make your bed and attend groups. I figured I was better off at home so left with dire warnings that I would seize. I didn't but lay on the couch for the two weeks she was in the hospital and felt like I was walking on a boat rocking the whole two weeks. But the happy ending is she came home I went back on only 5mg of valium and I was calm again and she settled down. Love Phillipa ps I'd been on a higher dose before
Posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 19:04:12
In reply to Re: Sudden Med Deprivation » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2006, at 18:41:13
>I didn't but lay on the couch for the two weeks she was in the hospital and felt like I was walking on a boat rocking the whole two weeks.
I had this sensation when I withdrew from clonazepam cold turkey. To me it felt a bit like standing in the ocean tide up to my waist, with the push-pull effect of the waves affecting my balance. I could even feel sand moving beneath the soles of my feet as the 'tide' went out!
Yes, if benzo withdrawal is bad for us adults it must be hellish for the babies when it's all they've known in their short lives?
Pleased it turned out well for you both.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2006, at 20:04:01
In reply to Re: Sudden Med Deprivation » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on December 6, 2006, at 19:04:12
Thanks too bad the docs didn't know then. Can you believe I was in false labor with her and the OB-Gyn gave me two sequeols? Love Phillipa
Posted by naughtypuppy on December 7, 2006, at 10:26:30
In reply to Re: Are benzos the only drugs that do anything? » zmg, posted by Bob on December 6, 2006, at 16:33:34
>
> > Ignorance is bliss. Thats what I love about this site and sites like it: subjective, experience-based information. Reading reports of doctors being surprised by cessation problems with drugs like Effexor really alarmed me. The information printed on the label isn't a very good place to stop.
>
>
>
> I get irritated almost every time I see an article in the press, or a show on TV. It almost always demonstrates how little the public knows.
>
What do you expect from an ignorant media and the public that are educated by them that thinks that ESPN is the educational channel!!! Do you think that they will ever have a National Bipolar Day or the Run for Schizophrenia. They look at the people that frequent this board as the equivelent of Hannibal Lechter. I also tend to prefer the term discontinuation symptoms as opposed to withdrawal which makes us look like a bunch of drug addicts looking for their next fix.
Rant for the day.
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