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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2006, at 14:08:01
Okay for ll years since hasimotos thyroiditis diagnosed the docs who tested thyroid said it was okay to take less than an hour before breakfast. I eat yougurt then. So I see an endocrinologist for the first time he says abosolutely no for the yougurt it has calcium and binds with synthroid. On the yougurt my throid has skyrockeded down in less than a month to below normal. So first Gp lowered dose then the endo lowered it further. So there is no pill in the range it wants to start with. So the lowered dose from the GP for three days and then a lower dose for four days. And he says I'll probably be at an even lower dose in the end. Why do I feel so much worse since the lowering? No memory and absolutely no energy at all. And the old pdoc said not the change any psych meds till thyroid straightened out it could take many months. Anyone know anything about this. I'm also anxious at the same time as being tired? Please help don't know where to search. Thanks you guys have been so kind to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Maximus on November 14, 2006, at 14:57:27
In reply to Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2006, at 14:08:01
Hello,
The "new optimal" range (at least in Canada) for TSH values is between 1 and 3. Above 3 you're hypo and under 1 you're hyper. Do you know your T3 and T4 values? Each day, i'm never taking my Syntroid at the same hour. Sometimes i eat before, sometimes not.
Take care of you, you sound deeply depressed and anxious. Bye.
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2006, at 19:52:59
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by Maximus on November 14, 2006, at 14:57:27
Maximus T4 l.8 TSH .06. See what happened? Love Phillipa why am I so tired???????
Posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 12:14:03
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Maximus, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2006, at 19:52:59
> Maximus T4 l.8 TSH .06. See what happened? Love Phillipa why am I so tired???????
Hello. Wow. Your TSH is 0.06. You're hyper, no doubt. BUT your T4 of 1.8 which is very very low, sign of hypo. The results are contradicting.
A good thyroid panel should look like this:
TSH: 0.30 - 4.0
T4 Total: 60 - 150
T3 Total: 0.7 - 2.10
T4 Free: 10 - 20
T3 Free: 3.5 - 6.5I wish you see your endo asap. Bye.
Posted by johnnyj on November 15, 2006, at 12:14:36
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by Maximus on November 14, 2006, at 14:57:27
Hello:
I have a TSH of 1.05 and a T4 of 11.5. Could I possibly be hyperthyroid? My family doc said it is ok, but I wonder. Should I have this checked further? I am afraid to ask since I don't want to seem like a hypochondriac. I am a male but I thought few males could ever become hyper?
The thing with values is that they are for the masses. How does one know what is the best range for them?
johnnyj
Posted by BryanII on November 15, 2006, at 12:28:12
In reply to Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2006, at 14:08:01
I agree. Thyroid-AD interaction is a meds issue for all of us with both conditions. Yours sounds complex.
Some of the treatment changes and responses you describe sound odd given your test levels. I'm no expert, but maybe in your case, managing according to typical TSH/T3/T4 tests isn't working. Symptoms sure sound like hypothyroidism. If I were experiencing your symptoms, I would be freaked about lowering dosage (my GP requested that yesterday and I will try it but am worried.)
There are good discussions about food interactions and general thyroid testing and management at several web sites: Thyroid Disorders Support Forum, thyroid.about.com, thyroidinfo.com. Searching on 'thyroid', 'food', and 'binding' will get other sources. I've found Mary Shomon's book " Living Well with Hypothyroidism" the best all around source of advice. Psycheducation.com has also some useful info (overlaps with Dr Bob's psychopharm tips on thyroid.
For atypical forms of hypothyroidism, I've found some of the "alternative" web sites helpful, if taken with a dose of skepticism (misinformation, anger). drlowe.com has good, though controversial discussions of thyroid hormone resistance and situations where treating according to standard tests does not work. The stopthethyroidmadness.com forum has some fairly sophisticated participants, a bit like this one.
The problem is if you pursue any of these non-standard concepts, you may be fighting your GP and endo.
I was a bit baffled when I read about possible interactions between thyroid pills and foods and supplements. The list of possibly interfering foods is huge, more than I was willing to cut out. Afterall, nutrition matters too.
Aside from following the usual advice to take thyroid pills one hour before eating and two-hours before some specific foods or supplements, it seems that consistency is the main thing. Keep dietary patterns regular(food types and when you eat them) and manage thyroid levels against that background. Maybe you need to switch pill to another time of day to fit with eating habits.
Sorry to be so long-winded. Good luck.
Byran
p.s. I've learned a lot from your posts and those of other regulars. I especially appreciate your supportive and compassionate presence on this forum. Thanks.
Posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 12:29:26
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Maximus, posted by johnnyj on November 15, 2006, at 12:14:36
> Hello:
>
> I have a TSH of 1.05 and a T4 of 11.5. Could I possibly be hyperthyroid? My family doc said it is ok, but I wonder. Should I have this checked further? I am afraid to ask since I don't want to seem like a hypochondriac. I am a male but I thought few males could ever become hyper?Your values are within the right range. Your thyroid seems correct. Bye.
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 18:13:13
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Phillipa, posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 12:14:03
Maximus a contridiction. According to the lab values that were taken before I saw the endo at the ER they list free T4 as normal being in the range of .9-l.7 and it says high after my number of l.8. I'm so confused. Can't anything ever go right? I even called and left a message as real people don't answer to phones all voicemail and asked if what I was feeling was normal. They didn't return the call. So what to do? Love Phillipa ps the docs say the best range for Tsh is now between l-2.
Posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 19:16:47
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Maximus, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 18:13:13
>According to the lab values that were taken >before I saw the endo at the ER they list free >T4 as normal being in the range of .9-l.7 and it >says high after my number of l.8.
Huh, those numbers could fit perfectly for T3's values instead of T4 ones. They must. Then your doctors stand correct. You were hyper and this is why they reduced your Synthroid.
I'm so >confused. Can't anything ever go right? I even >called and left a message as real people don't >answer to phones all voicemail and asked if what >I was feeling was normal. They didn't return the >call. So what to do? Love Phillipa ps the docs >say the best range for Tsh is now between l-2.
And they are right... I know the range is not wide. But higher or lower than that and i feel bad. The half-life of T4 is very long. So you may feel better after 4 or 5 days you began your new dose.
I have 2 tests a year. Sometimes my dose vary. Oh, and check your pulse. A pulse of an "untrained" but healthy person is between 66 and 72 bpm.
I hope it is clearer now. Bye.
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 19:24:53
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by BryanII on November 15, 2006, at 12:28:12
Thanks I'll check out the thyroid forums. I looked at one yesterday but it was scarey as they all very losing their hair and wearing wigs. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 20:02:47
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Phillipa, posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 19:16:47
T4's have been from 8.4-9.3,But my husband just checked the Er form and it is the free T4. So when will it reverse and feel better instead of worse. And I'm crying a lot. Love Phillipa old lady in a shoe can't even enjoy a couple of decades of normal life.
Posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 20:42:42
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Maximus, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 20:02:47
> T4's have been from 8.4-9.3,But my husband just >checked the Er form and it is the free T4. So >when will it reverse and feel better instead of >worse. And I'm crying a lot. Love Phillipa old >lady in a shoe can't even enjoy a couple of >decades of normal life.
Ok, well, don't be so sad. I think you got something here. Low TSH + low Free T4 = Secondary hypothyroidism, better known as Pituitary hypothyroidism. I think it would be a clever idea to call your endo and ask for a full panel of your HPA axis, i mean: pituitary, thyroid and adrenals.
I'm not a doctor. But in fact if you have secondary hypo then we can't trust the TSH because your pituitary is not receiving the loopback signal correctly. You have to rely on the Free T4 numbers, which ones are very low...
So it does not take a genius to bet that you may suffer of cold hands, cold feet, fatigue, anxiety, depression and confusion on top of your other symptoms.
Pursue the tests further. There is something wrong here and there. Bye.
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 21:00:43
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Phillipa, posted by Maximus on November 15, 2006, at 20:42:42
Maximus no the free T4 was slightly elevated .Here's what the endo tests were. I have the form here in front of me Okay here we go. Anti TPO antibody,cortisol total plasma,gondotrophin FSH, Somatomedin,Prolactin,tritodothyronine T3 total,throxine free,TSH,TSH receptor antibody. Holy *rap!!!! Total cost for this and the visit $1,623.00. My ****** unbelieveable. At that price he better know what he's doing. Love Phillipa now I am in shock!!!!!!!!Goggle Mecklenburg Medical Group Norman J Kramer is his name.
Posted by KayeBaby on November 16, 2006, at 0:04:50
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Maximus, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 21:00:43
Phillipa,
Find yourself a naturopathic dr. that treats patients according to clinical assessment (the good ole fashioned way) as opposed to lab values.I have had classic symptoms of hypo most of my life and have just recently began treatment with dessicated thyroid (westthroid)
I may be wrong but I believe your values are not unusual for Hashis.
I have listened to this Dr.'s podcasts on the subject and found them very informative esp. in regards to treating thyroid and how it works.
www.thenaturalmedicineshow.com
scroll down the page and you will find 3 or 4 shows about thyroid issues. This info gave me a lot of hope.Don't dispair, Phillipa.
You are not alone.Let me know if you want any help researching or anything.
Peace,
kaye
Posted by ronaldo on November 16, 2006, at 11:49:24
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by Maximus on November 14, 2006, at 14:57:27
> Hello,
>
> The "new optimal" range (at least in Canada) for TSH values is between 1 and 3. Above 3 you're hypo and under 1 you're hyper. Do you know your T3 and T4 values? Each day, i'm never taking my Syntroid at the same hour. Sometimes i eat before, sometimes not.
>
> Take care of you, you sound deeply depressed and anxious. Bye.
Hi Max,I think you have got your HYPER and your HYPO the wrong way round. HYPO means too little and HYPER means too much.
Hypo- is a prefix imported from Greek meaning "below", "low", or "insufficient".
Hyper- is a prefix imported from Greek
meaning "over" "above" or "beyond"They sound similar but they have opposite meanings.
see the Wiktionary
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Hyper-
and
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hypo-As they have opposite meanings it is kind of important to use them correctly. :-)
...ronaldo
Posted by ronaldo on November 16, 2006, at 12:00:18
In reply to Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2006, at 14:08:01
Hi Phillipa,
I thought this link might be some use to you:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030818/msgs/253446.html
...ronaldo
Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2006, at 18:10:29
In reply to Re: Know this is Meds But So Is Synthroid » Phillipa, posted by ronaldo on November 16, 2006, at 12:00:18
Thanks Ronaldo. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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