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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by erik98225 on November 10, 2006, at 0:42:48
Is anyone on this cocktail?
I take 1.5 mgs of klonopin for my SA and it gets rid of most of the fear of rejection etc., but it doesn't really have a PROSOCIAL effect where I want to seek out interactions with people. I've convinced my pdoc to start me on lyrica (taking 150 mgs once a day). I can feel some effect, but it's just like at the bottom of the range of being barely effective? I see pdoc again next week and hope to get an increase.
I've read basically all the lyrica posts on this board and heard that the best dose for SA is 600 mgs (300 twice a day). Anyone had success with this, and does it have a good PROSOCIAL effect?
Posted by tensor on November 10, 2006, at 3:52:22
In reply to Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica, posted by erik98225 on November 10, 2006, at 0:42:48
I take 2mg clonazepam for the same reason.
>but it doesn't really have a PROSOCIAL effect...
Were you prosocial before got mentally ill? If not, you're asking for a drug that changes your personality. I have no info about Lyrica.
/Mattias
Posted by erik98225 on November 10, 2006, at 5:33:28
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » erik98225, posted by tensor on November 10, 2006, at 3:52:22
> Were you prosocial before got mentally ill? If not, you're asking for a drug that changes your personality.
I honestly don't know, because the SA has been going on for many, many years (possibly starting as early as age *12*).
My SA is characterized by not only social fear, but social AVOIDANCE (which the klonopin doesn't help).
Posted by tensor on November 10, 2006, at 7:21:18
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » tensor, posted by erik98225 on November 10, 2006, at 5:33:28
>My SA is characterized by not only social fear, but social AVOIDANCE (which the klonopin doesn't help).
I know what you mean. I believe therapy and training is the only way. Expose yourself each day to situations that you fear. It's not easy, I know. I haven't found anything else than clonazepam to be useful for SP, and to medicate social avoidance you would probably need so high dose that you would appear drugged.
Alcohol is great for relieving anxiety of any form but is of course not a solution, however, I don't go to a night club before I have taken at least a few drinks/beers.I'm glad if I can be of any help.
/Mattias
Posted by Phillipa on November 10, 2006, at 11:10:28
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » erik98225, posted by tensor on November 10, 2006, at 7:21:18
How does lyrica change your peronality? Love Phillipa
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 10, 2006, at 11:17:40
In reply to Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica, posted by erik98225 on November 10, 2006, at 0:42:48
> Is anyone on this cocktail?
>
> I take 1.5 mgs of klonopin for my SA and it gets rid of most of the fear of rejection etc., but it doesn't really have a PROSOCIAL effect where I want to seek out interactions with people. I've convinced my pdoc to start me on lyrica (taking 150 mgs once a day). I can feel some effect, but it's just like at the bottom of the range of being barely effective? I see pdoc again next week and hope to get an increase.
>
> I've read basically all the lyrica posts on this board and heard that the best dose for SA is 600 mgs (300 twice a day). Anyone had success with this, and does it have a good PROSOCIAL effect?For me Lyrica works as an excellent antidepressant and makes me very pro-social. But here is the key..Low dose Lyrica = sedation, it takes higher dose Lyrica 600 mgs. daily preferably 300 b.i.d., for the antidepressant pro-social benefits. All studies indicate this. I have been doing well on Lyrica for about 3 1/2 mos. now. I also take Zoloft 100 mgs. daily, and Klonopin 1 mg. b.i.d.
-Monte
Posted by Phillipa on November 10, 2006, at 18:57:24
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » erik98225, posted by Crazy Horse on November 10, 2006, at 11:17:40
Wow has it been that long? I can't believe time flies like this. Love Phillipa
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 10, 2006, at 19:01:27
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » Crazy Horse, posted by Phillipa on November 10, 2006, at 18:57:24
> Wow has it been that long? I can't believe time flies like this. Love Phillipa
Actually, about 3 mos. to be exact.
Posted by erik98225 on November 11, 2006, at 14:37:13
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » erik98225, posted by tensor on November 10, 2006, at 7:21:18
> Alcohol is great for relieving anxiety of any form but is of course not a solution, however, I don't go to a night club before I have taken at least a few drinks/beers.
I don't touch alcohol.... I've had problems with it in the past and go to AA meetings 2x a week.
Oddly, I don't see how klonopin can be "fun" and I've never had the urge to take it recreationally. They say alcoholics can't use benzos correctly but I guess I'm the exception...
Posted by tensor on November 11, 2006, at 14:44:53
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » tensor, posted by erik98225 on November 11, 2006, at 14:37:13
>Oddly, I don't see how klonopin can be "fun" and I've never had the urge to take it recreationally
I agree. For me, clonazepam produces virtually no euphoria and there is data that supports this. Xanax and Valium produces a lot more euphoria IMHO. I don't think clonazepam has the same street value as Xanax and Valium because of this.
/Mattias
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 11, 2006, at 18:29:15
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » tensor, posted by erik98225 on November 11, 2006, at 14:37:13
> > Alcohol is great for relieving anxiety of any form but is of course not a solution, however, I don't go to a night club before I have taken at least a few drinks/beers.
>
> I don't touch alcohol.... I've had problems with it in the past and go to AA meetings 2x a week.
>
> Oddly, I don't see how klonopin can be "fun" and I've never had the urge to take it recreationally. They say alcoholics can't use benzos correctly but I guess I'm the exception...Me too erik. I just recently celebrated two years of alcohol sobriety. I have no cravings/urges to abuse Klonopin at all. Congrats on your decision to abstain from alcohol. Since i have stopped drinking my depression is definitely not as severe and for the past 3 mos. pretty much non-existent. :)
-Monte
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2006, at 19:03:28
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » erik98225, posted by tensor on November 11, 2006, at 14:44:53
Neither med ever did for me but alcohol did. Love Phillipa
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 11, 2006, at 21:59:35
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » tensor, posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2006, at 19:03:28
> Neither med ever did for me but alcohol did. Love Phillipa
Jan, it's Miller Time Baby!! ;)
Love, M
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2006, at 22:19:19
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » Phillipa, posted by Crazy Horse on November 11, 2006, at 21:59:35
What I wouldn't do for a corona and lime. Love Jan
Posted by MARTY on November 13, 2006, at 4:59:56
In reply to Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica, posted by erik98225 on November 10, 2006, at 0:42:48
Very Prosocial indeed.
I take 300 mg bid (600mg day) and it helps a lot.
Good luck
Marty
Posted by friendobillnbob on November 13, 2006, at 7:31:40
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica, posted by Crazy Horse on November 11, 2006, at 18:29:15
> > I don't touch alcohol.... I've had problems with it in the past and go to AA meetings 2x a week.
> >
> > Oddly, I don't see how klonopin can be "fun" and I've never had the urge to take it recreationally. They say alcoholics can't use benzos correctly but I guess I'm the exception...
>
> Me too erik. I just recently celebrated two years of alcohol sobriety. I have no cravings/urges to abuse Klonopin at all. Congrats on your decision to abstain from alcohol. Since i have stopped drinking my depression is definitely not as severe and for the past 3 mos. pretty much non-existent. :)
>
> -Monte
>Hello;
My first time posting - I was greatly impressed with this thread, and Monte & Erik's posts as it speaks directly with my situation.
I've been sober and active in AA 20+ years now. In the beginning I was quite a hardliner and fearful of any medication, following the anti-medication line of thinking in the group where I got sober. This has changed quite a bit over the years - and I've been agonizing over a recent decision to start Clonazepam & Pregabalin for Social Phobia, tremors and involuntary limb movements while asleep.
I believe the tremors (essential tremor) which I experienced before ever picking up a drink, contributed to my Social Anxiety - and at age 14,
when I discovered that Alcohol seemed to be a perfect cure for both conditions, I became an instant alcoholic. AA re-introduced me to life on the planet after 10 years of progressively insane drinking, and helped me to break a lifelong phobia of public speaking, sober. While some gains were made in the area of my social phobia, AA of course did nothing for my tremor. It's happened more than once where in AA my tremor has been misinterpreted for coming off a drunk - and the tremor has gotten worse over the last few years (I'm 47 now). Worse, the tremor has got in my voice so that often if I do get nervous or excited it seems to me that others perceive me as if I am on the verge of cracking up - and react to it with facial expressions that convey either dismay or sympathy. Now this all has greatly contributed to an increase of my Social Phobia which has made my life really difficult lately. Things I could do rather easily before (presentations, dealing with people directly on difficult subjects) are much harder than before. I've had a few times over the last few years when i've felt close to losing my mind, and have sought relief in periodic usage of a few different kinds of Benzos. I haven't felt any inclination to abuse them and I've been careful to only use a small amount on an as-needed basis - but I'm afraid of my mind's ability to rationalise and escalate the dosaage, and have not shared about my Benzo use at meetings (only with a couple of members who I trust).On one hand my mind tells me I am totally crazy to be experimenting with these drugs - that I am putting my sobriety in deep peril for doing so - and especially guilty for not sharing this openly in AA ('we're only as sick as our secrets')
On the other hand I see my social anxiety is destroying my ability to hold my life together and affecting my work, family and even AA life (as I'm even finding it difficult to interact with other AAs recently). I need help and part of that might be in medication. (the big book also says to never discount the services of a good doctor or psychiatrist) I'm in the 'peak' of career and family obligations and I've got others who are depending on me to hold it together.
Anyhow I hope the Pregabalin will work as I prefer that to the Benzo profile, my first reaction to it was quite positive, and it seemed to help with my tremors if it continues to work it will be killing several birds with one stone.
God bless you all - and I hope that you all find the answers you need, giving you happiness and good health.
Posted by erik98225 on November 13, 2006, at 12:53:23
In reply to Friends of Bill Bob, posted by friendobillnbob on November 13, 2006, at 7:31:40
> I've had a few times over the last few years when i've felt close to losing my mind, and have sought relief in periodic usage of a few different kinds of Benzos. I haven't felt any inclination to abuse them and I've been careful to only use a small amount on an as-needed basis - but I'm afraid of my mind's ability to rationalise and escalate the dosaage, and have not shared about my Benzo use at meetings (only with a couple of members who I trust).
I take both the clonazepam and pregabalin daily... this is a pretty high dose (1.5 clonazepam is equal to 60 diazepam IIRC), but coming off it isn't the living hell that Professor Ashton makes it out to be. If you take a seizure medicine like depakote during the benzo withdrawal it practically eliminates the symptoms and you can be off it in about 3 DAYS.
Of course, having experienced life on and off benzos, I've decided to take benzos.... I say if it helps you, you should take it -- no matter what AA says.
I have not shared about my benzo use in AA meetings, because I know what they're going to say: "Benzodiazepine is like alcohol in a pill!" This is BS... clonazepam is basically all the good effects of alcohol with none of the bad effects (drunkenness, hangovers and liver damage). I'm surprised benzos aren't prescribed more often to recovering alcoholics, because a lot of them have underlying anxiety disorders that drive them to drink!
Posted by FredPotter on November 13, 2006, at 14:11:14
In reply to AA, Anxiety, Benzos, Benzo Withdrawal » friendobillnbob, posted by erik98225 on November 13, 2006, at 12:53:23
I was told by my pdoc that 80% of alcoholics got there because of anxiety and/or/ depression. AA are very silly about benzos
Posted by erik98225 on November 13, 2006, at 15:06:46
In reply to Re: AA, Anxiety, Benzos, Benzo Withdrawal » erik98225, posted by FredPotter on November 13, 2006, at 14:11:14
> I was told by my pdoc that 80% of alcoholics got there because of anxiety and/or/ depression. AA are very silly about benzos
I know. AA says benzos is like drinking, and some even say you have to change your AA birthday if you take a benzo.
(Donning asbestos underwear...)
I personally think all alcoholic beverages should have all the alcohol removed, and a really short acting benzo (midazolam?) added in its place.Who knows how many livers it would save.
Posted by Erica1986 on November 13, 2006, at 21:38:15
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » erik98225, posted by tensor on November 11, 2006, at 14:44:53
Different meds do different things for different people. I love my Klonopin. I take 1 mg twice a day and not only has it helped my Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Panic Disorder, but it has made me more social. I enjoy being around people more. I don't worry as much about what other people think of me. Strangely enough, Klonopin also gives me an anti-depressant feeling. I feel happier. Maybe it's just because i'm not so nervous and jittery. I don't know. Either way, Klonopin is my miracle pill. I was on Xanax for awhile, and although it worked well, it was too short lived and I hated having to take them 3-4 times a day.
After trying so many different meds (don't even get me started on the SSRI'S. Prozac wasn't so bad but the rest were terrible), finally finding something like Klonopin is truly a Godsend. Maybe you just need a higher dose. My psychiatrist started me out on .25 twice a day and we worked our way up on it until I finally felt immense relief from the debilitating anxiety.
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2006, at 22:44:00
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica, posted by Erica1986 on November 13, 2006, at 21:38:15
We're definitely all different as klonopin depresses me. I wonder why? Love Phillipa
Posted by christophrejmc on November 15, 2006, at 16:53:32
In reply to AA, Anxiety, Benzos, Benzo Withdrawal » friendobillnbob, posted by erik98225 on November 13, 2006, at 12:53:23
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 19:36:37
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica » Erica1986, posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2006, at 22:44:00
Yup and there is an equivalency board on babble. Love Phillipa
Posted by erik98225 on November 18, 2006, at 4:51:56
In reply to 1.5mg clonazepam is more like ~15mg diazepam, FYI (nm) » erik98225, posted by christophrejmc on November 15, 2006, at 16:53:32
> 1.5mg clonazepam is more like ~15mg diazepam, FYI
In my personal experience, 1.5 clonazepam = 3.0 alprazolam = 60 diazepam (I've taken all three). Your mileage may vary.
Clonazepam is my benzo of choice because it's the least sedating and has about a 12 hour effect (I take 0.5 in the morning and 1.0 at night). I like the antidepressant effect of Alprazolam, but the 3x a day dosing is annoying.
Posted by erik98225 on November 18, 2006, at 4:54:56
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, Klonopin, Lyrica, posted by Crazy Horse on November 11, 2006, at 18:29:15
> I just recently celebrated two years of alcohol sobriety. I have no cravings/urges to abuse Klonopin at all. Congrats on your decision to abstain from alcohol. Since i have stopped drinking my depression is definitely not as severe and for the past 3 mos. pretty much non-existent. :)
I have 46 or 47 days of sobriety today (depending on your time zone!) and feel better than I have in years.
According to AA and the treatment center, though, because I'm taking Klonopin I'm not sober.
Idiots.
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