![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2006, at 13:35:57
Anyone out there experience hypersomnia
while taking imipramine long-term?Possible effects of pharmacological interventions
after which decline in health began, i.e. loss
of weight, jaundice (grey), fatigue, more depression, congitive decline, forgetting, concentration problems, anxiety, hypochondria,
wasting of muscle, frozen fingers that look white
in room temperature-- dr. says Raynaud's syndrome;
personality change;- Serzone given 2 yrs. ago (w/d after failed 2 month trial;
- gall bladder operation
- Rivotril (good for night sleeping but high, imho 3.0 mg;
- Lithium intervention (failed like another 12 drugs or so tried, and w/d.)
-thyroxine given and withdrawn by another dr. with different opinion;Definitely something different has happened --
i worry that it was the Serzone, but i am told that if it were, it would be catastrophic --
looks like hapatic encephalopathy to me though, from what i have read. I am not a doctor.Appreciate any feedback if this looks familiar.
Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 17:53:34
In reply to Hypersomnia and imipramine, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2006, at 13:35:57
Squiggles have you had a complete physical with all labs? What are your liver enzymes? AS this is an indication of anything in the liver or gall bladder. Jaundice is usally yellowing of the eyes first, then skin. It does sound like Renauds with the finger thing. Which means you have autoimmune diseases going on. There are many. Even chronic fatigue could cause the hypersomnia. How many hours of sleep is hypersomnia to you? And google autoimmune diseases and see if one fits your profile. I have them too. Hashimotos thyroiditis, there is also one that affects the liver I was checked for that too. And are you perimenopausal or before that or after. You need an MD. Love Phillipa
Posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2006, at 18:24:49
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 17:53:34
> Squiggles have you had a complete physical with all labs? What are your liver enzymes?
Not complete to my knowledge (actually this is
a question for a friend);AS this is an indication of anything in the liver or gall bladder. Jaundice is usally yellowing of the eyes first, then skin.
Yep. I know, but this was a transient gray slate shade - may have been a drug reaction;
It does sound like Renauds with the finger thing.
Hmm... not sure -- could be necrosis from liver malfunction?
Which means you have autoimmune diseases going on. There are many. Even chronic fatigue could cause the hypersomnia.
Yep -- just saw a fascinating article on BMJ on the history of encephalitis lethargica;
How many hours of sleep is hypersomnia to you?
Not many -- 3-5; but they have been increasing if the opportunity is there -- could be the Rivotril is too high;
And google autoimmune diseases and see if one fits your profile. I have them too. Hashimotos thyroiditis, there is also one that affects the liver I was checked for that too. And are you perimenopausal or before that or after.
Not applicable in this case; i am fine; fortunately, my friend is getting a test - just
worried about the brain you know;thank yoiu.
You need an MD.
Got one :-)
Squiggles
Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 21:22:03
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2006, at 18:24:49
Squiggles oh it's not you. The slate grey sounds like maybe lack of oxygen. 3.5hrs of sleep I fall asleep on my feet. Seriously I need 9-10hours a night . At my high school prom I could have stayed out all night permission granted at 2am I was home in be by myself sleeping. Love Phillipa now you have me puzzeled.
Posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2006, at 7:27:32
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 21:22:03
Sorry, i should have specified, that
3-4 hrs. on top of 8-9 hrs. regular;
but the sleep seems to come in waves
and is especially regular right after
eating sugar, hmmm. Anyway, we expect
the dr. will give a neurological check
soon; just wondering if possible gastro/
liver problems show up on an CAT scan or
MRI or whatever. I'm worried because
it seems to have increased after Serzone,
but maybe other factors are responsible.
Dr. has to listen to details i guess.tx
Posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2006, at 8:26:07
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2006, at 7:27:32
On the question of *testing* for hepatic
encephalopathy, i found this:http://www.gastroresource.com/gitextbook/en/chapter14/14-13.htm
As you can see, diagnosing hp is indirect
and would include many other possible causes
with similar symptoms. However, the cerebral
tests would show at least the results of
hp.What a mess.
Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2006, at 21:08:32
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Squiggles, posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2006, at 8:26:07
Squiggles that sounds like endstage liver disease. Yes a CT Scan can rule out or in liver problems there are lots of them. I was scheduled for a liver CT when my liver enzymes were elevated. Down now so I cancelled it. Also get tested for hepatitis B,C and there is an autoimmune live disease too. My ANA was elevated as it's been for years and some liver ASMA smooth muscle antigen can indicate a liver hepatitis that is autoimmune. I'm weak for that one. Love Phillipa are bodies are a mess aren't they?
Posted by Squiggles on October 25, 2006, at 7:01:52
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2006, at 21:08:32
> Squiggles that sounds like endstage liver disease. Yes a CT Scan can rule out or in liver problems there are lots of them. I was scheduled for a liver CT when my liver enzymes were elevated. Down now so I cancelled it. Also get tested for hepatitis B,C and there is an autoimmune live disease too. My ANA was elevated as it's been for years and some liver ASMA smooth muscle antigen can indicate a liver hepatitis that is autoimmune. I'm weak for that one. Love Phillipa are bodies are a mess aren't they?
Thank you for the information Phillipa. I
truly hope it is not liver, but depression;
but i am glad to see that a CT scan could
diagnose liver disease. Part of the problem
in this situation is that I waver wildly
between "critical psychiatry" reports, e.g.
Public Citizen, and of course the hope that
they are alarmists. I'll come back to this
liver suspicion when the reports come out. :-(take care
Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on October 26, 2006, at 10:57:15
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on October 25, 2006, at 7:01:52
Hypotheses:
The worst - hepatic encephalitis brought
on by Serzone and/or Serzone and Rivotril -
yet to be examined or confirmed. BTW, when
I said CT might pick it up, i meant brain CT
which is what my friend will get from a neurologist, *not* liver. Hmmm.OK - another hypothesis of mine - that
the batch of imipramine and Rivotril varied from
pharmacy to pharmacy - tested - NEGATORYThe one i am testing now: that RIVOTRIL is too
high (3.0 mg Rivotril with 200 imipramine) esp. when 2.0mg is taken in the morning - that might slam someone down real hard. So my suggestion is take only 1.0mg Rivotril in the morning and the larger remainder at night. In process..Hope this works. My other theory is that the imipramine itself is too low, but the dr. says it has already reached toxic levels (one blood test - is that really enough?) and the patient can't take it - side effects of derpession, cognitive fuzz, and anxiety.
Squiggles
Posted by oceanesque on October 26, 2006, at 19:06:12
In reply to Hypersomnia and imipramine, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2006, at 13:35:57
Hi,
Just wanted to let everyone know, that after a lifetime of hypersomnia, I found a cure with 10 mg/day Abilify. Just thought this might be helpful...
oceanesque
Posted by Squiggles on October 27, 2006, at 8:06:00
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Squiggles, posted by Squiggles on October 26, 2006, at 10:57:15
> Hypotheses:
>
>1. The worst - hepatic encephalitis brought
> on by Serzone and/or Serzone and Rivotril -
> yet to be examined or confirmed. BTW, when
> I said CT might pick it up, i meant brain CT
> which is what my friend will get from a neurologist, *not* liver. Hmmm.
>
> 2. OK - another hypothesis of mine - that
> the batch of imipramine and Rivotril varied from
> pharmacy to pharmacy - tested - NEGATORY
>
>3. The one i am testing now: that RIVOTRIL is too
> high (3.0 mg Rivotril with 200 imipramine) esp. when 2.0mg is taken in the morning - that might slam someone down real hard. So my suggestion is take only 1.0mg Rivotril in the morning and the larger remainder at night. In process..
>
> 4. Hope this works. My other theory is that the imipramine itself is too low, but the dr. says it has already reached toxic levels (one blood test - is that really enough?) and the patient can't take it - side effects of derpession, cognitive fuzz, and anxiety.
>
> Squiggles
>Testing 3. second day -- looks promising.
Less sleep, less depression.I think a week of this should yield
more definite results.I'll report it on it. It would be nice to
avoid a brain transplant when all that is
needed is an adjustment in med. dosage. :-)Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on October 29, 2006, at 14:59:00
In reply to Re: Hypersomnia and imipramine » Squiggles, posted by Squiggles on October 27, 2006, at 8:06:00
> >3. The one i am testing now: that RIVOTRIL is too
> > high (3.0 mg Rivotril with 200 imipramine) esp. when 2.0mg is taken in the morning - that might slam someone down real hard. So my suggestion is take only 1.0mg Rivotril in the morning and the larger remainder at night. In process..
>For anyone following this string.... the schedule
of the Rivotril was switched (1.0 in the a.m.)
2.0 at night. The dose has not been reduced because there is an app. with a dr. coming up which should not be drug-altered for accuracy's sake.--No I don't think that scheduling switch makes a difference. There is still irresistable falling asleep in the aft. What's more, *i* have had the same thing for some time now....not so extreme-- (after the unsuccessful clonazepam withdrawal i think - some 4 yrs. ago and noticeable after the lithium dose peak). The distinctive thing for me is that the nap is immediately a dip into REM sleep. That happened during clonazepam withdrawal
and continues.Could be that we both had a drug-induced stroke, or there's a virus going around. The nap is about 1 - 3 hrs.
Strange.
Squiggles
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.