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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
Every neuroleptic I've tried causes me to experience intolerable side-effects. Has anyone had success with other kinds of medications for paranoia/irrational fears?
Posted by ed_uk on September 16, 2006, at 16:56:48
In reply to Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
Tell us about your paranoia...... What do you fear?
Ed
Posted by yxibow on September 16, 2006, at 19:21:33
In reply to Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
> Every neuroleptic I've tried causes me to experience intolerable side-effects. Has anyone had success with other kinds of medications for paranoia/irrational fears?
There was a discussion of this just before -- there are other treatments, there is an older reference to using Valium in schizophrenia.
But also it would be curious to know what specific type of side effect, because they all have EPS, but some are notorious for different forms of them.
Also some of these EPS dissappear over time, its just a matter of whether you trade off the side effect versus the medication.
Now I'm not suggesting you live in misery forever, but if a neuroleptic was discontinued after a week, or days, that isn't a trial of the drug and I'm not trying to be facetious or mean when I say that.
There is also a midrange (in terms of side effects) old antidepressant called amoxapine that was used for psychotic depression. In a sense, it was an old chemical compound similar to the concept of what Symbyax does.
-- tidingsJay
Posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 2:56:15
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia » flip-floppy, posted by ed_uk on September 16, 2006, at 16:56:48
It's mostly related to schizotypal personality disorder (something I got after years of experimenting with hallucinogens, amphetamines and cannabis.) The following entry at wikipedia describes exactly how I think and feel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder
Posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 3:11:43
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoi » flip-floppy, posted by yxibow on September 16, 2006, at 19:21:33
The most intolerable side-effect I experience on neuroleptics (except for Abilify, which sadly makes me too anxious), is violent, hellish nightmares. They are mostly about things I intensely fear, barbaric murders or communicating with evil forces.
Posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 3:21:35
In reply to Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2006, at 5:02:52
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoi » ed_uk, posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 2:56:15
Hi.
> > Tell us about your paranoia...... What do you fear?
> It's mostly related to schizotypal personality disorder (something I got after years of experimenting with hallucinogens, amphetamines and cannabis.) The following entry at wikipedia describes exactly how I think and feel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorderI'm glad Ed asked that question. It was what I was going to do. People often use the word "paranoid" without reference to its specific psychiatric definition.
From the definition of schizotypal personality disorder, you might actually benefit from a pro-social combination of drugs like Nardil + Klonopin. That's my knee-jerk reaction at this point.
Perhaps Emsam would be worth a try.
There may be other ways of attacking this.
Amoxapine was suggested. I don't know how different this will be in terms of side effects compared to the APs you have tried. It has mild AP properties. That's what makes it a valid consideration for schizotypal personality.
I am currently trying Lyrica. It has been reported by others to have pro-social effects at higher dosages. I can see this. I have felt bits of this happening as I have raised the dosage. I am currently at 225mg. The dosage that others have felt most well at has been 600mg, so I can't report to you yet what this drug has to offer me. Lyrica will probably be approved soon for generalized anxiety disorder GAD.
I would like to know what exactly are the side effects you experience with APs that prevent you from taking them. Perhaps there are antidotes to them that have not been considered that would obviate the need to look for less efficacious treatments.
Low-dose amisulpride + adrafinil has been reported by some to work well. Others have combined low-dose amisulpride with selegiline.
Where are you on the depression scale?
Where are you on the anxiety scale?
- Scott
Posted by Pluto on September 17, 2006, at 9:55:33
In reply to Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
> Every neuroleptic I've tried causes me to experience intolerable side-effects. Has anyone had success with other kinds of medications for paranoia/irrational fears?
If you don't experience depression, Librium at moderate doses can be very helpful. 3 pills of 10 mg probably can make a difference. I read somewhere in the past (can't source it now) Librium was the first benzodiazepine that once effectively used to treat psychotic paranoia.
Best Wishes
PLS
Posted by ed_uk on September 17, 2006, at 12:48:21
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoi » ed_uk, posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 2:56:15
Hi FF
Which antipsychotics have caused you to have nightmares? Have they helped your paranoia during the day?
ed
Posted by nellie7 on September 17, 2006, at 13:36:46
In reply to Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
Hi,
I also suffer from paranoia and cannot tolerate APs but have been helped by Celexa. If you suffer from anxiety as well, it may be worth trying an SSRI such as Celexa or Lexapro, since these target serotonin more specifically than others.
You also mentioned suffering from delusional depression in a former message so there is a good chance that an AD can help relieve some of your symptoms, either as monotherapy or part of a combo.Take care,
Nellie.
Posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 15:57:07
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoi » flip-floppy, posted by ed_uk on September 17, 2006, at 12:48:21
> Which antipsychotics have caused you to have nightmares? Have they helped your paranoia during the day?
Seroquel at any dosage and amisulpride at 100 mg and above. Zyprexa also caused nightmares IIRC. I don't think Seroquel helped for paranoia, only for panic. Amisulpride was better.
Posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 16:07:48
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoi, posted by SLS on September 17, 2006, at 5:02:52
> From the definition of schizotypal personality disorder, you might actually benefit from a pro-social combination of drugs like Nardil + Klonopin. That's my knee-jerk reaction at this point.
Benzos are the only drugs that has really helped. I hope to start on Valium as soon as possible. Either that or Lyrica.
>I would like to know what exactly are the side effects you experience with APs that prevent you from taking them. Perhaps there are antidotes to them that have not been considered that would obviate the need to look for less efficacious treatments.Nightmares is the main side effect that prevents me from taking AP. Do you think clonidine might help in this regard?
Posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 16:17:21
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia » flip-floppy, posted by nellie7 on September 17, 2006, at 13:36:46
What about magical thinking? Does Celexa help for that?
Posted by blueberry on September 17, 2006, at 16:36:54
In reply to Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by flip-floppy on September 16, 2006, at 13:15:08
I think ssri's, benzos, and some mood stabilizers such as depakote can be used for paranoia fear stuff. The theory is paranoia is excess dopaminergic action. While neuroleptics block dopamine, ssri's and benzos and depakote can tame dopamine down.
Not at all scientific. Just my thoughts.
Mileage varies too...when I have paranoia and fear, higher doses of zyprexa or seroquel actually make it worse, as does prozac. But xanax, klonopin, ativan, or depakote tame it down quickly.
Posted by yxibow on September 17, 2006, at 18:46:15
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoia, posted by blueberry on September 17, 2006, at 16:36:54
> I think ssri's, benzos, and some mood stabilizers such as depakote can be used for paranoia fear stuff. The theory is paranoia is excess dopaminergic action. While neuroleptics block dopamine, ssri's and benzos and depakote can tame dopamine down.
>
> Not at all scientific. Just my thoughts.
No it is scientific, SSRIs increase the reuptake of serotonin, which downregulates dopamine. Luvox helped me early on in my complex nonpsychotic somatiform disorder which is postured to surround D2 and GABA. I eventually took Seroquel.
Posted by nellie7 on September 18, 2006, at 13:49:38
In reply to Re: Other treatments than neuroleptics for paranoi » nellie7, posted by flip-floppy on September 17, 2006, at 16:17:21
> What about magical thinking? Does Celexa help for that?
Not really. But it can help prevent getting carried away by such thinking and reduce its severity.
This is the end of the thread.
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