![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 11:17:14
I've had a major depressive disorder with psychotic features which came on very suddenly in spring of 2001. I have been labeled as treatment resistant. I am on EMSAM, Geodon and Seroquel. I thought that things were going better on the EMSAM, and because of that, my psychiatrist increased my dose to the 9mg patch a couple of weeks ago.
Ever sice the depression started I've had chronic suicidal ideation. It comes and goes, and it seems like every time it's here I take additional steps to put things in order since I really don't want to be a burden to my family and friends when it happens. It's almost like a foregone conclusion to me. I've already seen a lawyer, filed a will, readied a quit claim deed so that my mom can sell my home without difficulties, put my mom on all bank accounts etc, given lots of things away, gotten in touch with a lot of people that I haven't spoken to for a long time through cards and letters, and a host of other things. I have to stay away from the water when I'm driving because there's a strong urge to drive into it. Yet I cannot imagine any more horrible death than by drowning....it just makes no sense. I make sure that my gas tank is full so that when I need to, I can just take my cats and get into the car in the garage and hopefully go to sleep.
I've been hospitalized many times in the early years of this, I'm told that I went through ECT that was terminated in the middle of the series because they say I was too confused. I don't do well in the hospital- I become more frightened and withdrawn.....for that reason my psychiatrist and psychologist have tried really hard to keep me out of the hospital since 2003. I really like and respect both of my docs and feel that I get good care from them.
When I try to talk to my psychologist about this, he tells me that "it's the illness talking, not you" and that he doesn't feel that I'm the "type" whatever that means, to actually carry through and kill myself. I hope that he's right when I have moments like this where I'm not having these strong thoughts and urges. But when I'm in those kind of moments I feel like it's really not in my control. In the last couple of weeks I'm feeling these urges more often and they seem to be more intense....at times I feel such a sense of desperation. And the odd thing is- the EMSAM had been working well enough that my dose is now higher these last couple of weeks. My family, friends and doctors have all noticed a much lighter mood since this dose change. On the inside, I feel a certain sense of peace right now that it's all going to be over soon. I'm glad that my family's memories of me will be happier ones than the bulk of the past 5 years would have been by themselves.
I think that if my psychiatrist knew how really bad these feelings are right now- he'd throw me into the hospital. I think that my psychologist is probably so used to hear me talk about these feelings- he's always encouraged it- that he probably thinks that I'm being a drama queen or something like that. He has always told me that I'm not going to do it. (If I'm not, then why did I sit for hour upon hour and open hundreds and hundreds of capsules and crush hundreds of pills to put in a tuperware container so I have a back up plan in case the carbon monoxide fails?) I haven't felt like I wanted to talk to him about this the last couple of weeks.Do people get some sort of notice when they're actually going to end their life? I don't think that there's anything left for me to plan or take care of, so I think and on most days hope that the big finish could be coming very soon. I posted a note on my favorite dress in the closet yesterday that just says "this one!" so hopefully that's what someone will choose to bury me in. I feel kind of silly asking this, because clearly anyone reading this is alive so maybe no one knows. How do you get the motivation to capitalize on the moment and finish what you know is inevitable? This illness has just dragged on for so long and I'm so very tired. I'm ready for it to be over for good....for everyone's sake. I'm sorry to babble for so long but I figure if anyone has some insight on this that maybe they'd be willing to share it.
Thank you. /m
Posted by purplesky on August 12, 2006, at 17:40:40
In reply to How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 11:17:14
Well, I'm not entirely sure what to say, but I'll tell you some of my experience and observations and give you some advice. I'm certainly not an expert and there are others here that are likely better equipped to help you in your situation, and in no way I mean any harm so I hope not to offend you in any way whatsoever. Anyway....
I think there are really 2 reasons behind suicidal thoughts
1. The pain/anguish/suffering/etc. is so bad that the person wants to end their own suffering, sort of like a mercy killing.
2. The person actively hates him/herself and wishes to inflict murder on this person as a punishment.
My experience is more with the latter of the two. I actively hated myself and felt like I was this evil person that deserved to be killed. I'm not sure if things would have been different or not had I felt differently.
I am a "fretter" by nature. I find it difficult to make decisions, I worry a lot, and I tend to change my mind about 50 times before I finally make a decision, if ever. When I chose to kill myself, I was feeling particularly impulsive. I think the impulsivity was a red flag. I found myself doing things without thinking or caring about the consequences for a couple weeks before my attempt. I had very little energy and slept most of the time, but when I went out I would buy things that I didn't really want, I would drive more recklessly, and I would say things I didn't mean. I didn't even write a letter or make any preparations--I'd had suicidal thoughts for a long time and never acted on them. I don't think I had actually planned to kill myself until I tried.
Now, I know that if I'm feeling that impulsive without feeling happy, I'm at risk. I make sure that I stay around friends and that I always have fun things scheduled in the near future. If I have, say, a ticket to a show on Friday, then I'm less likely to kill myself on Wednesday. Make sense? I noticed that I felt much better if I kept things light--no drama movies or heated conversations, just comedy and jokes and cute things in my life when I'm feeling bad.
What I didn't realize until afterward, my boyfriend (who is also my best friend, and we've been dating for several years now) was mad at me for the attempt. I didn't really think of this in the 3rd person until he told me, but I had just tried to murder his girlfriend. Of course, he would be hurt at whoever was trying to take the love of his life away from him. I know that he didn't deserve to lose his beloved girlfriend, and if his girlfriend had been murdered he would be devastated. This train of thought really made the guilt for trying to kill myself outweigh the guilt I felt for being alive, so the balance swayed a bit toward self-preservation.
Another idea that helps to keep me from killing myself is that there are people who deserve to be on this earth a lot less than I do. Sure, I hate myself on most days, but I haven't raped or murdered anyone. I'm not as bad of a person as I sometimes think. If those people have the right to be alive on this earth, then I certainly do.
Something that also helps sometimes, especially with my motivation (and severe lack thereof) is that I have debts to pay to the earth. There are people out there who have been nice to me, and who I need to be nice back to, there's money that I've spent that I haven't paid back, there's my parents who took care of me and eventually I need to take care of them, things like that. Even if it's not something tangible, there's still love that I have felt in my life that I need to pass on to other people, and I can't do that if I'm dead.
Alright, my brain is beginning to zone out, and I know I had some other things that helped me along the way that I didn't mention. If I think of them I'll add them.
If you think you feel even a little better with your medication, why don't you try hanging in there just a little longer? You don't have to think about how you will be years from now, or even days from now, just live until tomorrow, then find a way to do it again. I think one of the best things you could do for yourself to stay safe is to be around people 24/7. If no one is home, go for a walk at the park, go to Barnes and Noble and read a good book, go to a funny movie, go window shopping at the mall, something like that. Get some sunlight if you haven't gone out much. You don't have to feel social and interact with other people, just make sure that you're somewhere that people can see you. Be nice to yourself.
Posted by fca on August 12, 2006, at 18:01:16
In reply to How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 11:17:14
I was the Exec. Dir. of a comprehensive emergency psychiatric facility (about 500-600 patients per month) many of whom were suicidal. I don't think any of our staff really understood what triggered that final choice--duration/acuity of depression. loss, supports, means, cognitive disorganization, level of anxiety, age, gender, blah, blah, blah. But what would finally take it to the edge--who knows? What I did not see mentioned is the role of substance abuse--drugs/alcohol play an extremely significant role in lowering inhibitions and increasing the probability of a successful or unsuccessful suicide attempt. Obviously we did not evaluate those who were successful though we probably knew them from past attempts or psychiatric crises. I tend to be most concerned when I see the following--bipolar, substance abuse, older, terminal illness, dramatic loss (real or perceived), prolonged anxiety (helplessness), just emerging from a serious depression. I have tried to answer your question forthrightly.
I hope you chose to live. Your message does raise personal and professional concerns. I hope you will commit to finding some relief other than through suicide. fca
Posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 21:13:57
In reply to I really do not think any one knows--For 20 years, posted by fca on August 12, 2006, at 18:01:16
Although I was not in as high a position as fca I was a certified psychiatric nurse. And I agree with fca the successes I heard of involve alchohol or drugs too. Also the fact that you have everything in order, picked a dress, have a plan, means you definitely need to be in a safe place. Does you T know you've done all of the above and not reported it to your pdoc? I urge you to call either your pdoc or admitt yourself voluntarily to a safe place. And you do mean something to a lot of others I'm sure. Love Phillipa
Posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 21:28:46
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by purplesky on August 12, 2006, at 17:40:40
> Well, I'm not entirely sure what to say, but I'll tell you some of my experience and observations and give you some advice. I'm certainly not an expert and there are others here that are likely better equipped to help you in your situation, and in no way I mean any harm so I hope not to offend you in any way whatsoever. Anyway....
>
> I think there are really 2 reasons behind suicidal thoughts
>
> 1. The pain/anguish/suffering/etc. is so bad that the person wants to end their own suffering, sort of like a mercy killing.
>
> 2. The person actively hates him/herself and wishes to inflict murder on this person as a punishment.
>
> My experience is more with the latter of the two. I actively hated myself and felt like I was this evil person that deserved to be killed. I'm not sure if things would have been different or not had I felt differently.
>
> I am a "fretter" by nature. I find it difficult to make decisions, I worry a lot, and I tend to change my mind about 50 times before I finally make a decision, if ever. When I chose to kill myself, I was feeling particularly impulsive. I think the impulsivity was a red flag. I found myself doing things without thinking or caring about the consequences for a couple weeks before my attempt. I had very little energy and slept most of the time, but when I went out I would buy things that I didn't really want, I would drive more recklessly, and I would say things I didn't mean. I didn't even write a letter or make any preparations--I'd had suicidal thoughts for a long time and never acted on them. I don't think I had actually planned to kill myself until I tried.
>
> Now, I know that if I'm feeling that impulsive without feeling happy, I'm at risk. I make sure that I stay around friends and that I always have fun things scheduled in the near future. If I have, say, a ticket to a show on Friday, then I'm less likely to kill myself on Wednesday. Make sense? I noticed that I felt much better if I kept things light--no drama movies or heated conversations, just comedy and jokes and cute things in my life when I'm feeling bad.
>
> What I didn't realize until afterward, my boyfriend (who is also my best friend, and we've been dating for several years now) was mad at me for the attempt. I didn't really think of this in the 3rd person until he told me, but I had just tried to murder his girlfriend. Of course, he would be hurt at whoever was trying to take the love of his life away from him. I know that he didn't deserve to lose his beloved girlfriend, and if his girlfriend had been murdered he would be devastated. This train of thought really made the guilt for trying to kill myself outweigh the guilt I felt for being alive, so the balance swayed a bit toward self-preservation.
>
> Another idea that helps to keep me from killing myself is that there are people who deserve to be on this earth a lot less than I do. Sure, I hate myself on most days, but I haven't raped or murdered anyone. I'm not as bad of a person as I sometimes think. If those people have the right to be alive on this earth, then I certainly do.
>
> Something that also helps sometimes, especially with my motivation (and severe lack thereof) is that I have debts to pay to the earth. There are people out there who have been nice to me, and who I need to be nice back to, there's money that I've spent that I haven't paid back, there's my parents who took care of me and eventually I need to take care of them, things like that. Even if it's not something tangible, there's still love that I have felt in my life that I need to pass on to other people, and I can't do that if I'm dead.
>
> Alright, my brain is beginning to zone out, and I know I had some other things that helped me along the way that I didn't mention. If I think of them I'll add them.
>
> If you think you feel even a little better with your medication, why don't you try hanging in there just a little longer? You don't have to think about how you will be years from now, or even days from now, just live until tomorrow, then find a way to do it again. I think one of the best things you could do for yourself to stay safe is to be around people 24/7. If no one is home, go for a walk at the park, go to Barnes and Noble and read a good book, go to a funny movie, go window shopping at the mall, something like that. Get some sunlight if you haven't gone out much. You don't have to feel social and interact with other people, just make sure that you're somewhere that people can see you. Be nice to yourself.
>Thank you so much for taking the time to try and help me. It is most appreciated. You bring up some good points. I would say that it's the sense of hopelessness and uselessness along with a great deal of physical and emotional pain that are leading me in this direction.
I used to be a very high functioning organized and decisive person, but never really had impulsive feelings. I was always a worrier myself, but was always involved in really high stress jobs and for almost 20 years before the onset of the depression I routinely logged in excess of 100,000 air miles a year. I thrived in this type of environment. I had a pretty positive outlook on life. I had a lot of loving relationships with family and friends. My world was wide open.
When the depression began in 2001 I had just had an hysterectomy at age 44. I was looking forward to having the surgery because I knew that the end result would be positive.....I had been bleeding and cramping from fibroids for about a year and although I was cheerful on the outside, I was pretty miserable. Things could only get better, or so I thought. Nothing went right from that point on. I had a couple of medical/surgical complications from the surgery and just never got better. I didn't understand what was happening to me when the depression hit.
As a result of my depression I lost a lot of really good friends that just couldn't deal with my illness. It seemed that a lot of people looked at me as someone who was really strong and thought it impossible that this could happen to me. My relationships with family members and my remaining friends became fractured. I was unable to return to work (made 3 attempts at 3 different positions but washed out quickly)and I used to make a lot of money so now I'm stuck on SS Disability. I have been unable to even read a book-I used to read at least a book a week. Now I stick to short newspaper articles. I've had numerous medical problems that just seem to keep on coming....from a very large parathyroid tumor to more recently finding out that I'm prediabetic and that I have heart disease and am in a mild heart failure. My world has become even more narrow now that I've had 4 deaths in my family in the past 5 years and I just passed the 1st anniversary of the death of my best friend of almost 25 years from cancer.
I feel a great sense of responsibility towards the (anticipated) care of my mom as she gets older and needs more assistance. At the same time I feel that as miserable as I've made her life that it would probably be better if I just wasn't here. I feel guilty for the years of wear that I've put on her.
I haven't been acting recklessly towards treatment of people or spending money...at least I don't think so...if anything, it's really hard for me to justify continuing to buy groceries and basic things. The only financial debt that I carry is my home and I can't see letting that get out of control only for someone else to have to deal with later. In my old life I always felt that I had a lot of love to offer others, but my heart is just bankrupt in that area now. I can't think of one person that wouldn't be better off if I was gone.
Lately I've been spending more time with friends...nothing real exciting as I can't take the stimulation for long periods of time, but I have been "hanging around" people more. I make a great effort to try to not show how I am struggling to others. I am such a loser now- I don't exactly attract others to me like I used to. The downside of doing this is that it just adds to the exhaustion and sense of uselessness because I can't help but compare myself to others, and my friends are all doing great in their lives and careers.
I'll read your message again later. Thank you again so much for all of the time you took to try and help me. I'd like to try to understand what's happening to me and anticipate what's next. Best wishes to you.
Posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 21:47:45
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 21:28:46
Seriously I can relate to you. And you know since I went through menopause the physcial ailments get worse. Degenerative disc disease which limits my excercise something I've always loved. Running was a passion for me. Remember Jim Fix the marathon runner? I ran with him in Westport Ct and have an autographed book of his. I've always known with a history of cardiac problems that excercise was a must for me. But I also found that runners high. Now I settle for 7-l2 miles on my bike with my husband good stress relief and it forces you to breath deeply hence Aerobic Excercise means with oxygen. Then broken bones from osteoporosis. Chronic lymes disease, and hasimotos thyroiditis. And I swore that I'd never get ill. So you're not alone. Will you hang in with me? I need a fellow friend. Love Phllipa
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 13, 2006, at 4:38:01
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it? » RN320, posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 21:47:45
My heart goes out to you and I'm sorry you are in extreme pain. I don't think there is a person alive who hasn't thought about what it would be like if they were not around, especially during life's challenging times, and it sounds like you have an overwhelming amount of those.
However, I beg you to to do three things: 1, first and foremost, you need to find some type of therapy (CBT?) or activity that transforms your mind from those negative thoughts (I struggle with worry and anxiety and have found playing computer games against others over the Internet keeps my mind occupied, challenged, and satisfied). 2, You have to got to find purpose. Surely you were not put on Earth to soley suffer and struggle. And if you were destined to go through so much emotional pain, perhaps it was to share your story with others and help them through the same situations. From reading your post, it sounds like you are a big-hearted person. Obvisously, if you didn't care or love others, you wouldn't even bother making a will (other ppl benefit from that, and not you). 3, Finally, U GOTTA HAVE HOPE. As traumatic as your emotional health has been, believe it or not, other ppl in this room (not me) have been where you are and worse, and somehow, some way found a way out of it. HOPE. New meds are coming out all the time. If ENSAM doesn't do the trick, then maybe try Nardil or something else. Or perhaps try a new pdoc who may have some different ideas.
Finally, PLEAZZZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEE keep posting your thoughts and feelings in here. There are people in here that really care and will be able to relate. Nothing you have written is something that others in here haven't thought about, too. I.E. You are not ALONE. Michael
Posted by RN320 on August 13, 2006, at 7:51:53
In reply to Re: Find your purpose, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 13, 2006, at 4:38:01
Thank you for your thoughts and the way they were expressed.
I have a therapist who practices CBT whenever and wherever he can during our sessions. I see him at least once a week. Unfortunately when I'm overly stressed and experiencing more of the psychotic features of the depression we work on that more......... As I've just had yet another death in my family last week and the funeral plans are being dragged out 2 weeks (God only knows why)and I'm supposed to be starting Cardiac Rehab on Monday (3x a week for the next 8 weeks seems a little overwhelming to me), my therapist is just helping me devise a plan to handle these new stressors. I feel really comfortable with my therapist and psychiatrist. I had a second opinion, so I know that I'm getting good care. They're both very much on my side, and I'm really lucky to have them. My psychiatrist is very aggressive with med management and mentioned the possibility of oral selegeline or nardil in the future- he says that it's entirely possible that I will require higher doses than my insurance will pay for in the patches (max is one 12 mg patch per day and I'm at 9 now).
I know that there are a lot of people that have it worse than me.....all I have to do is read some of the messages on this site or listen to the news. It makes me feel all the more guilty that I'm here taking up space since I've become so useless over the past 5 years- so self absorbed and non-contributory.
Thank you again.The sense of purpose is something that I'm just lost on. I always identified with my career so much and that's gone. Because of my lifestyle prior to the depression, and the death of my best friend last year- I have a few local friends but the bulk of them are scattered throughout the country. I am unable to handle the stress of travel, so I haven't seen any of them in the past 5 years. I don't tend to call people all that often because I don't really have anything that is interesting or worthwhile to contribute. When I do call, I try not to talk about myself and focus on them.
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on August 13, 2006, at 15:57:07
In reply to Re: Find your purpose » UgottaHaveHope, posted by RN320 on August 13, 2006, at 7:51:53
Please do not feel guilty about on your posts on here. You are certainly not wasting space. That's what the message board is for, for everyone to share experiences, trade knowledge and ask questions. Even though many ppl on here have it worse on here than me, they are not in my shoes and cannot speak for me. I may have something, medically, less serious, but I may not be handling it anywhere as good as someone who has something 100 times worse and so on. Again, that's what this board is for and we appreciate you sharing your views.
I know how you feel about wasted time. I feel that way about the last nine years of my life. Like I did nothing, accomplished nothing and saw life past me by. However, that is a mistaken belief. I did do things, maybe not at the same pace as before. I'm sure you've have, too. The fact that you have maintained friends, even though you havent traveled as before, is proof of that.
Again, though, I offer you hope: There are people on here who have probably felt like they had 30 wasted years, but then somehow pullled out of their slump, whether it was counseling or meds or by an act of God. There is always hope. You've got to cling on to that.
Posted by exquilter on August 14, 2006, at 0:27:51
In reply to Re: Find your purpose » UgottaHaveHope, posted by RN320 on August 13, 2006, at 7:51:53
Speaking from experience (5 attempts) I beg you to get more intensive help. You have all the warning signs and it can take very little to push one over the edge when all the pain is so intense.
Is day hospitalization an option for you?Could your Mother or a friend stay with you for a while?
Please think about how bad your Drs. would feel if you followed through on your plan while they were doing their best to keep you alive. They are human too.
You touch other people every day without realizing it. Your life may not be what it was before this horrible illness, but you would leave a big hole in a lot of lives if you died in this manner.
I have gotten through many critical times by reminding my self I could always do it tomorrow. (sometimes procrastination pays off).
Finally, for whatever they are worth, my thoughts and prayers are with you, for peace of mind and healing of body.
Posted by RN320 on August 14, 2006, at 21:03:17
In reply to Re: Find your purpose, posted by exquilter on August 14, 2006, at 0:27:51
Thank you, Exquilter, for your thoughts. As I get closer to this I do feel a lot of guilt in leaving those behind who have invested so much in my- family, friends and docs. The events of the last few days for me have pushed me closer towards the edge than I think I've ever been. Even though I know that there are people out there for me I feel so very alone, and at this point I don't think that I want any intervention. I don't think that there's anything else that I can plan- there's really nothing holding me back at this point. I think that I've reached a point where I just can't take the things that seem to go along with my everyday life anymore. And to me- that's a big clue that I don't belong here anymore.....probably shouldn't have been for awhile. I find myself unable to cope with yet another funeral in my famiy occurring this week, and going to cardiac rehab today for the first time was very overwhelming....they make it really clear that you're responsible for a lot and I have a hard time remembering things and that didn't go over well. Then I found out that my Part D Medicare drug provider has disenrolled me and refunded all of my premiums through social security. I didn't think that they were able to drop people unless they didn't pay their premiums, and mine was paid everymonth through my social security check. Now I have >$2000 a month in meds that I can't afford. I just can't take the pressure anymore, and no matter how angry that people may be initially with my choise, I think that they'll eventially get it, even if they don't agree.
So, thank you for your ideas.....I'll talk to my therapist about the possiblity of a day program, but other than that I think I'm done. Five years has been a long time. I don't even know myself anymore. Peace to you. Maybe I'll get some soon myself.
/m
Posted by Karen44 on August 14, 2006, at 23:29:34
In reply to How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 11:17:14
The fact that you have this ambivalence about driving into the water says just that--part of you wants to die, and part of you wants to live. I have had the same thing--felt an uncontrollable urge to drive off the bridges over the interstate and to jump in front of the Metra train. Thing is the urge passes eventually and with talking about it to not just the psychologist you see but to the psychiatrist as well. S/he can't help you if you are not honest about what is going on. HOw else to even know what med's to prescribe. Don't know your age, but I dealt with lots of depression and other crap when I was younger, and now that I am older, it returns as a result of lots of physical problems. Talk, talk, talk or else there is no one who can help.
Karen
Posted by exquilter on August 15, 2006, at 0:08:22
In reply to Re: Find your purpose, posted by RN320 on August 14, 2006, at 21:03:17
> Thank you, Exquilter, for your thoughts. As I get closer to this I do feel a lot of guilt in leaving those behind who have invested so much in my- family, friends and docs. The events of the last few days for me have pushed me closer towards the edge than I think I've ever been. Even though I know that there are people out there for me I feel so very alone, and at this point I don't think that I want any intervention. I don't think that there's anything else that I can plan- there's really nothing holding me back at this point. I think that I've reached a point where I just can't take the things that seem to go along with my everyday life anymore. And to me- that's a big clue that I don't belong here anymore.....probably shouldn't have been for awhile. I find myself unable to cope with yet another funeral in my famiy occurring this week, and going to cardiac rehab today for the first time was very overwhelming....they make it really clear that you're responsible for a lot and I have a hard time remembering things and that didn't go over well. Then I found out that my Part D Medicare drug provider has disenrolled me and refunded all of my premiums through social security. I didn't think that they were able to drop people unless they didn't pay their premiums, and mine was paid everymonth through my social security check. Now I have >$2000 a month in meds that I can't afford. I just can't take the pressure anymore, and no matter how angry that people may be initially with my choise, I think that they'll eventially get it, even if they don't agree.
>
> So, thank you for your ideas.....I'll talk to my therapist about the possiblity of a day program, but other than that I think I'm done. Five years has been a long time. I don't even know myself anymore. Peace to you. Maybe I'll get some soon myself.
> /m
Dear RN-It was not my purpose to make you feel guilty, but to remind you of all the people who care about you.
Five years is a long time but there have probably been bright spots in those years that you cannot see from this valley of the shadow, and I believe there are more to come if you can tough this out.
Maybe this is not the right time to proceed with a demanding program like cardiac rehab. Have you confided your misgivings to the therapists you see there? Have you considered that the relationship between depression and heart attack may be playing a role in how you feel right now?
I don't know what the insurance company is up to, but I do know that there are ways to get your medications free or at reduced cost if you are not insured. Your Drs. will know what forms you need to fill out, etc.
You do need a break from all the everyday cares that wear all of us down. You need to be cared for, protected and strengthened and all this is still possible if you will just allow it. Please share your plans with your Dr. or Therapist, Dear Heart. I know how hard that is to do, I really do.
Exquilter
Posted by wacky on August 15, 2006, at 10:12:08
In reply to Re: Find your purpose, posted by exquilter on August 15, 2006, at 0:08:22
I am so touched by your posts - and I can tell you that you have inspired me so much. Thank you.
I too have experienced those urges to drive off the road. This is my second major depression and although I'm on the mend, the urges are still so close in memory that my heart goes out to you. The fact that you haven't done anything - as of yet - is hope. I know you want to end your misery. But, like the others have said, if you can find the strength to hang in there a little longer, and confide in your pdoc and T about the details of your plans, they will help you come up with a plan for you to stay safe. I understand you don't want to go back to the hospital. I have been hospitalized twice and neither time did I find it helpful - except that I stayed alive. I like the day treatment idea. I did that too for awhile - and if nothing else it helped keep me busy.
By sharing your distress on this site, you have touched many others - and inspired others to appreciate their own journey. This, in and of itself, is an enormous contribution to others that share your feelings. What I'm trying to say is that even in your darkest moments, you ARE making a difference in other people's lives. That is enough to warrant your continued existence. The world needs you. Other people in the world benefit from you existence. I have benefitted from your existance and I would like to continue the dialogue.
You DO matter. You helped me today to get out of myself just a little bit more. For that I thank you. I would be most grateful if you could hang with us and offer more of your story. Please stay with us.
Nancy
Posted by Maxime on August 15, 2006, at 16:18:33
In reply to How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 11:17:14
Sometimes you JUST know. And you begin to do things to prepare.
Other times you act on an impulse.
Other times it's accidental.
I don't want to give any ideas ... so I will leave it at that.
Take care.
Maxime
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 16, 2006, at 3:21:12
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it? » RN320, posted by Maxime on August 15, 2006, at 16:18:33
what in the world made you say that? this board is for ENCOURAGEMENT.
Posted by Racer on August 16, 2006, at 5:30:30
In reply to How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 11:17:14
I'm sorry -- I couldn't read all of your post, so this may not track well. I'll read the rest when I have some synaptic activity going on.
How do you know? Hard question, but here's something based solely on my own experience: there's a huge difference between suicidal ideation and being suicidal. I get both, so I do have some experience there. When I am experiencing suicidal ideation, I may think I really want to do it -- but I don't. I just want the pain to stop, I want to feel better, but I want to continue to feel.
When I'm actually suicidal, though? Nope. I just don't care, I would rather not feel anything ever again.
That doesn't sound so different, really, but it is. There's a big gulf between the two. Problem is, once you build a bridge to the other side, it's pretty darned hard to tear it back down. Once you accept the idea of self-murder as a viable option, it's very hard to move back to where it isn't acceptable anymore. I used to think it wasn't possible at all, but now I think it might be. I find lately that I am having a lot of suicidal ideation -- but am not actually considering suicide as an option anymore. It's taken a lot, though.
From the bit I've read, though, I gotta say I'm not terribly impressed by your T. There's no guaranteed type for suicide, and what you're describing needs to be taken seriously. You've done a lot of things that make me worry for you. What worries me most, is that you've put things in place so that you might feel it's OK to do something impulsive, and that's most dangerous. If you know that there's nothing left undone, and it sounds as though that's where you are, that makes an impulsive act so much more likely.
The urge to drive into water, though, sounds like something else to me. I have a problem with high places -- there's a pedestrian bridge near me that I have the hardest time walking over, since the railing is so low, and I have this fear that I'll throw myself over. That's not being suicidal, though -- that's a form of anxiety. I've read that it's that fear that's behind a fear of heights for many people. Maybe treating the anxiety would help reduce that fear for you? (For what it's worth, I have OCD, so the fear of throwing myself over the railing may be related to that...)
If it helps, though, my cats have kept me alive twice now. Each time, I realized that no one would take my big cat, my beloved cat, and that I'd really have to take him with me if I did it. I couldn't do that, though. He deserved to live, even if I could face it anymore. Now I'm glad, since we've had many more years together. I urge you to concentrate on your cats, on whether you could really do that to them?
I strongly urge you to express this, again, to your T and your pdoc. If they still don't take you seriously, consider firing them. Believe me -- that's a very empowering option for you...
I hope this finds you feeling a bit better. Your cats deserve a good, long life. My monster is 18 now...
Posted by maxime on August 16, 2006, at 10:11:16
In reply to Re: wtf was that Maxime?, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 16, 2006, at 3:21:12
> what in the world made you say that? this board is for ENCOURAGEMENT.
I believe in reality ... the truth.
maxime
Posted by RN320 on August 16, 2006, at 14:02:21
In reply to Re: How do you know **trigger** » RN320, posted by Racer on August 16, 2006, at 5:30:30
> I'm sorry -- I couldn't read all of your post, so this may not track well. I'll read the rest when I have some synaptic activity going on.
>
> How do you know? Hard question, but here's something based solely on my own experience: there's a huge difference between suicidal ideation and being suicidal. I get both, so I do have some experience there. When I am experiencing suicidal ideation, I may think I really want to do it -- but I don't. I just want the pain to stop, I want to feel better, but I want to continue to feel.
>
> When I'm actually suicidal, though? Nope. I just don't care, I would rather not feel anything ever again.
>
> That doesn't sound so different, really, but it is. There's a big gulf between the two. Problem is, once you build a bridge to the other side, it's pretty darned hard to tear it back down. Once you accept the idea of self-murder as a viable option, it's very hard to move back to where it isn't acceptable anymore. I used to think it wasn't possible at all, but now I think it might be. I find lately that I am having a lot of suicidal ideation -- but am not actually considering suicide as an option anymore. It's taken a lot, though.
>
> From the bit I've read, though, I gotta say I'm not terribly impressed by your T. There's no guaranteed type for suicide, and what you're describing needs to be taken seriously. You've done a lot of things that make me worry for you. What worries me most, is that you've put things in place so that you might feel it's OK to do something impulsive, and that's most dangerous. If you know that there's nothing left undone, and it sounds as though that's where you are, that makes an impulsive act so much more likely.
>
> The urge to drive into water, though, sounds like something else to me. I have a problem with high places -- there's a pedestrian bridge near me that I have the hardest time walking over, since the railing is so low, and I have this fear that I'll throw myself over. That's not being suicidal, though -- that's a form of anxiety. I've read that it's that fear that's behind a fear of heights for many people. Maybe treating the anxiety would help reduce that fear for you? (For what it's worth, I have OCD, so the fear of throwing myself over the railing may be related to that...)
>
> If it helps, though, my cats have kept me alive twice now. Each time, I realized that no one would take my big cat, my beloved cat, and that I'd really have to take him with me if I did it. I couldn't do that, though. He deserved to live, even if I could face it anymore. Now I'm glad, since we've had many more years together. I urge you to concentrate on your cats, on whether you could really do that to them?
>
> I strongly urge you to express this, again, to your T and your pdoc. If they still don't take you seriously, consider firing them. Believe me -- that's a very empowering option for you...
>
> I hope this finds you feeling a bit better. Your cats deserve a good, long life. My monster is 18 now...
>My kitties just turned 16 in June, and that's been the hardest thing for me because I know that none of my friends or family would want the responsibility of caring for my 2 geriatric cats. They have a very good life, and they're my family, so the only thing that I could think of was to take them with me in as kind way as possible- hence carbon monoxide. They'd never be happy with someone else taking care of them, as they're very attached to their momma. I think that I've gotten over that and look at it in a matter of fact way now. I'm sorry that there may be people around me that are upset, but to be perfectly honest I don't care anymore. I've done all the planning that I can to make things as easy as possible for others, and have come to realize that unless you're in the amount of pain that I'm in you can't possibly understand. So, at a certain point you have to just not care what others think and hope that some day they come to understand. I never used to think of myself as selfish, but it appears that's what I've become.I could never fire my therapist and psychiatrist...they've been so good to me and stuck with me through a really difficult illness and I think that they've done their best. It's me, not them. I thank you for your thoughts, and especially about your cats, as mine are near and dear to my heart.....probably one of the last things that I can say that about. Best wishes to you. /m
Posted by RN320 on August 16, 2006, at 14:08:08
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it? » RN320, posted by Maxime on August 15, 2006, at 16:18:33
> Sometimes you JUST know. And you begin to do things to prepare.
>
> Other times you act on an impulse.
>
> Other times it's accidental.
>
> I don't want to give any ideas ... so I will leave it at that.
>
> Take care.
>
> MaximeMaxime-
Thanks alot. I DO know and have taken just about every precaution to make things easier for others.I worry about impulsivity.....I never used to be an impulsive person but lately I find myself thinking more along these lines.
I don't worry about an accident....I have to say that I believe that there are no accidents.
Thank you again....you've helped me understand myself a little better. God bless you.
/m
Posted by Maxime on August 16, 2006, at 18:50:47
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 16, 2006, at 14:08:08
> Maxime-
> Thanks alot. I DO know and have taken just about every precaution to make things easier for others.
>
> I worry about impulsivity.....I never used to be an impulsive person but lately I find myself thinking more along these lines.
>
> I don't worry about an accident....I have to say that I believe that there are no accidents.
>
> Thank you again....you've helped me understand myself a little better. God bless you.
> /mYou're welcome. But I should add that you should call a Hotline if the thoughts are really bad. Sometimes it helps just hear someone talk to you. There is also a service on the internet, I think it's called Good Samaritans. So there are places to reach out if you are in distress. Maybe you should have those numbers nearby.
Please stay safe. People do care.
Hugs, Maxime
Posted by Racer on August 16, 2006, at 21:31:20
In reply to Re: How do you know **trigger**, posted by RN320 on August 16, 2006, at 14:02:21
Truly, what I was trying to say is that you can get back from that side of the abyss. I know what it feels like -- believe me, I do know what it feels like to know that there's just no other way.
I'm still experiencing depression. But I am glad I'm alive, even if I'm depressed.
And lemme say it again: I have experienced severe depression, and thought there was no hope and life was too painful. I hated hearing people tell me that there was hope, because I couldn't see any. That's why I'm trying to tell you that there really and truly is hope.
Maxime's advice to have the hotline numbers handy is good. I hope you'll take it.
Posted by Karen44 on August 16, 2006, at 22:36:23
In reply to Re: How do you know when you're really going to do it?, posted by RN320 on August 12, 2006, at 21:28:46
Here is my take on things. I don't think you have any respect or care for you psychologist and psychiatrist. The fact you would keep things secret from your psychiatrist says you are either angry with this person or just don't care. You would kill your cats too. All of this speaks to a great deal of anger perhaps with yourself but also with others.
I have a fairly good idea where you are coming from having had five hospitalizations and three sugeries in 2005; one surgery in 2006 and continued now chronic physical problems. It isn't fun; I have been depressed to the point of contemplating suicide and have a plan as well, but I keep talking to my doctor, and he knows as long as I talk, I won't do anything. Made that promise which I will keep. I am struggling to keep working and have been doing so. I am lucky that my job, though there are deadlines, allows me to develop my own schedule. As I sit here I am in excrutiating pain -- had two cervical spine surgeries last year, and the problems are not gone. I am trying physical therapy now with only minor help. I am not willing to throw in the towel though I came close a month ago. I, too, have had problems with finding the right medication. So what about going back to the hospital. Beats being dead and having no chance to see if life would improve. You seem awfully focued on the suicide thing such that you don't have time to consider anything else. I hope you talk to your psychiatrist and let that person talk to your psychologist to impress on him or her the gravity of the situation.
Karen
Posted by finelinebob on August 17, 2006, at 2:57:53
In reply to Re: wtf was that Maxime? » UgottaHaveHope, posted by maxime on August 16, 2006, at 10:11:16
> > what in the world made you say that? this board is for ENCOURAGEMENT.
>
> I believe in reality ... the truth.
>
> maximeI gotta go with Maxime on this one. A dose of cold, hard, irreversible reality is something anyone in this dark place needs to face.
RN320, you've done a lot of preparation for dying, and I can appreciate that. I tried, I failed miserably, but I learned a few things.
I learned that there was a level of despair that drained the "strength" it takes to do it. That's why so many anti-depressants warn about close monitoring when you first go on them -- you may improve enough to get back up to that tipping point.
I also learned what, for me, were the signs. Having tried once, I knew that I was capable of doing so again, and that is a terrible bit of self-knowledge to have, but there is far more hope in it than despair.
And no, I'm not going to tell you what they are. They're MY signs, **I** found them, I EARNED them, and I ain't gonna SHARE them with anyone who's gonna copycat me.
But now comes the tough part. Preparing to die is easy ... our society makes it so. Preparing to live is quite different. And a lot harder. None of us here want to lose you. Whatever you may think, that's likely the case for everyone in your "real" life, not just your virtual life here.
So, when you start seeing your own signs, what are you going to do to prepare to live? For the signs I would recognize as stepping down that path, I have plans and backup plans to turn myself around. I know too many people who will refuse to let me take my own life. How many is too many? 1. If you need a back-up plan, 1. Maybe 2. I'm lucky enough to have more than that.
Stop planning to die. Certainly, suicide is *an* answer. God help them, for some people it is one right anwer. Not the only one, but perhaps one.
Start planning to live. It's a bigger challenge, much more to do. But there are many right reasons to live, whatever your situation. A good start would be to reverse all those actions you took to prepare for dying. Get your mom off your accounts. Rip up that deed. Take that dress, remove your tag, put in on then go out and LIVE a little in it. Invest your money. Take a home improvement loan out on your property so that you can't simply have it "assigned" to someone on your death.
When you've erased all your preparations for dying, let us know so we can cheer you on.
I'll be honest. I agree that suicide is selfish. But I think it takes strength and courage ... misused strength and twisted courage, but strength and courage nonetheless.
Living is so much harder. But you are surrounded by people willing to share that burden with you. Yes, your burdens may weigh us down, but your life will lift us up, with the balance sheet in our favor. Will you let us be selfish, or are you going to hoard that vice all for yourself?
Posted by exquilter on August 19, 2006, at 16:34:54
In reply to Re:wtf was that Maxime?possible triggers or hope, posted by finelinebob on August 17, 2006, at 2:57:53
Please Post, I'm worried about you.
Exquilter
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