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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zazenducks on August 8, 2006, at 18:35:58
If people are sick enough to be on Antidepressants should they really be in combat?
I know amphetamines were all the rage in WWII and I can understand the rationale for that but ADs???? Whoever is prescribing that stuff should read Babble for a while before passing it out to people in such dangerous places with so much potential to harm others and themselves unintentionally if those drugs impair them.
I think the world's gone mad and I don't think drugging the troops is the answer.
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 21:02:14
In reply to 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by zazenducks on August 8, 2006, at 18:35:58
War is a depressing situation. I don't think prozac is going to make anyone less guilty for killing another human being. And if it is, we've got problems.
The world has gone mad.
They're probably all on Warload Wellbutrin, instead of Passionate Paxil.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on August 9, 2006, at 11:32:07
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 21:02:14
I know from my Son from Desert Storm that if the military says take it you do. Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on August 9, 2006, at 17:00:09
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 21:02:14
I speculate that people find themselves over there for a variety of reasons and motivations, ranging from wanting citizenship to believing in the cause; many might not have even realized what would happen once there, and I imagine some of them must undergo a dramatic transformation once they get there, resulting in, perhaps, in: "What the h*** am I doing here!!!!! Why???" I'd certainly feel traumatized if that was me, there, changing my mind, seeing all the horrors, and then being forbidden to back out!At the same time, I'm not judging anyone who is there- Phillipa, I hope your son stays safe and comes home safely. The situation must not be easy for you.
Also, now I'm curious- what percentage of the general population takes psychiatric medication anyway?
Posted by laima on August 9, 2006, at 17:02:25
In reply to 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by zazenducks on August 8, 2006, at 18:35:58
Oh-an interesting thing I heard, not sure if this is fully true- but Provigel was originlly developed by the military for pilots to use in combat???
Posted by Phillipa on August 9, 2006, at 19:21:39
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on August 9, 2006, at 11:32:07
Desert Storm I think it was l991 he left with the 82nd Airborne. He was in Iraq with the French Foreign Legion close to the target. And he became blinded by a defective Russian blasting cap and lost two finger tips but he's alive. And the military paid for college he has a BS in social work. They would only pay for certain programs as with special equipment he can see a little out of one eye. And he graduated summa cum laude. Love Phillipa ps they gave him all sorts of shots and they couldn't refuse.
Posted by fuchsia on August 10, 2006, at 0:54:48
In reply to 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by zazenducks on August 8, 2006, at 18:35:58
5% sounds low to me
Posted by laima on August 10, 2006, at 8:48:36
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by fuchsia on August 10, 2006, at 0:54:48
> 5% sounds low to me
Sounds low to me, too.
Phillippa, I misread your original post about your son- I'm very happy to hear he IS home safely!
Posted by linkadge on August 10, 2006, at 17:00:01
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by laima on August 10, 2006, at 8:48:36
Its a terrable thing.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on August 10, 2006, at 19:42:24
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by laima on August 10, 2006, at 8:48:36
Thank-you so much. Me too. Love Phillipa
Posted by Crazy Horse on August 12, 2006, at 9:19:50
In reply to 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by zazenducks on August 8, 2006, at 18:35:58
I actually thought the percentage would be much higher than 5 percent. War is depressing. You/i'd think provigal would be a useful med as it's not really considered a stimulant, but is useful (kind of like caffiene, but better) for lack of sleep, lack of energy, and can be somewhat of a mild antidepressant for some. My heart goes out to our couragous troops!
Monte
Posted by Jost on August 12, 2006, at 11:47:55
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by Crazy Horse on August 12, 2006, at 9:19:50
I'm agreeing with you Crazy Horse I'd have thought it was much higher.
Provigil was developed from anafranil, which was specifically developed to keep military personnel awake and alert for longer periods when under battle or other stressful situations of long duration.
Really I wonder if they do use various medications like this for the troops. How else can they keep on going, with conditions of warfare? Extreme dissociative states, I guess-- which is why so many have serious emotional problems after they return.
It's a terrible situation.
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 20:14:56
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by Jost on August 12, 2006, at 11:47:55
Thanks Jost I didn't know that about Provigil. And my Son is working with the VA and the returning troops so much PTSD. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on August 13, 2006, at 16:31:25
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs » Jost, posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 20:14:56
Wow- I hope that the military is taking good care of our troops both abroad and when they return home. I hate the thought that they are being given mind-altering substances without their consent to make them more efficient soldiers. A political gain at the risk of the long term risk to young men and women.
Phillipa, I hope your son is wiser and stronger because of his experience. I imagine it was really difficult to get to know him again when he came back. (((Phillipa & Son)))
-ll
Posted by cecilia on August 14, 2006, at 4:00:56
In reply to 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by zazenducks on August 8, 2006, at 18:35:58
The latest statistic I could find by a quick Google search is that in 2002, 8.5% of the civilian, non-institutionalized U.S. population took, (or at least purchased) a prescription antidepressant. So if it's 5% for combat troops that's actually lower.
Posted by mattdds on August 16, 2006, at 9:59:09
In reply to Re: 5 percent of combat troops in Iraq are on ADs, posted by cecilia on August 14, 2006, at 4:00:56
Hello,
I'm an officer in the US Army. I'm not deployed, but likely will be sooner or later (my next duty station will be one where I'll be associated with a highly deployable unit). I'm not an infantry officer, I'm in healthcare. But with today's battlefield being 360 degrees, all of us that wear the uniform need to be prepared for it.
My experience with military p-docs has been very pleasant (I take a benzo long term for anxiety / panic disorder). I do have a medical profile, but more for the nature of the medication I'm taking, not my mental status (e.g. what if I got stuck in combat and I couldn't get access to my meds - benzos are not drugs to discontinue abruptly, and could make me a liability to those around me).
The docs certainly are not forcing AD's, but they are available when soldiers need them. The military has taken a big initiative to take the stigma away from psychiatric problems. I know in the past this was not the case, but it's getting better.
Personally, I think AD's are at best a placebo, and can very possibly worsen anxiety (obviously the biggest problem in combat). That is coming from someone who suffered years of anxiety and depression. 5% AD use sounds too high to me, but simply because I think AD's are ineffective. I'm a big believer in old meds, such as benzodiazepines and stims for some. I also believe CBT techniques would be extremely helpful.
I have never been forced to take any meds or vaccines. Example - I was given the opportunity to take the anthrax vaccine, and I opted in. It's optional. Nobody is forcing AD's either, it just happens to be (sadly, IMO) that AD's are the "standard of care" for depression.
I believe Air Force pilots are still taking stims to ward off fatigue during long runs. Like I said, I'm in the Army so this may have changed. I know Army aviators are grounded if they take psychiatric medications - a tricky problem. It may deter some from choosing that career path (which may be good - we're not all cut out to be aviators), but it also discourages them from getting care when they may need it. There is no easy solution. A Blackhawk pilot may be impaired if taking a benzo, but may also be impaired if suffering from crippling anxiety.
But my impression is not at all that we are being "doped". Incidents in the past, where soldiers were ordered to take meds are usually misunderstood. Take the example of the Gulf War, where pyridostigmine bromide was given before expected nerve agent attacks. This is sometimes perceived as forced medication. But it could have been life saving if the attacks had taken place. Commanders decided the risk was worth it. In a similar situation, with similar intel, I would probably do the same in the spirit of protecting our troops.
These are tough times. I consider the daily stress of fighting an extremely unpopular war compounded with mental illness - it's piling horror on top of horror for very young people. My heart goes out to our soldiers.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 16, 2006, at 10:07:44
In reply to Misunderstandings about military psych care, posted by mattdds on August 16, 2006, at 9:59:09
Thanks Matt,
This is really valuable information.Are Active Duty personnel given access to psychotherapy (assuming that they are on base)? And do officers know when their troops are being treated for mental illness, or any illness, for that matter? How does confidentiality work when the employer is also the health-care provider, and practically owns the bodies of Active Duty troops?
I'm just wondering whether there is an over-emphasis on medication, rather than other therapeutic approaches. I'm also wondering whether there is a stigma of seeing a therapist that might not be the case for popping a pill.
Thanks,
-ll
Posted by laima on August 16, 2006, at 10:54:59
In reply to Misunderstandings about military psych care, posted by mattdds on August 16, 2006, at 9:59:09
Wow, thank you for sharing and clearing up some myths and misunderstandings about psychiatric drugs in today's military. I am sure it can't be easy to be doing what you are doing or to face the possibility of going to Iraq, Afghanistan, or another war zone. I'm frankly awed by your guts. Sincerest best wishes to you; I hope you stay safe and well!> I'm an officer in the US Army. I'm not deployed, but likely will be sooner or later (my next duty station will be one where I'll be associated with a highly deployable unit). I'm not an infantry officer, I'm in healthcare. But with today's battlefield being 360 degrees, all of us that wear the uniform need to be prepared for it.
>
> My experience with military p-docs has been very pleasant (I take a benzo long term for anxiety / panic disorder). I do have a medical profile, but more for the nature of the medication I'm taking, not my mental status (e.g. what if I got stuck in combat and I couldn't get access to my meds - benzos are not drugs to discontinue abruptly, and could make me a liability to those around me).
>
> The docs certainly are not forcing AD's, but they are available when soldiers need them. The military has taken a big initiative to take the stigma away from psychiatric problems. I know in the past this was not the case, but it's getting better.
>
> Personally, I think AD's are at best a placebo, and can very possibly worsen anxiety (obviously the biggest problem in combat). That is coming from someone who suffered years of anxiety and depression. 5% AD use sounds too high to me, but simply because I think AD's are ineffective. I'm a big believer in old meds, such as benzodiazepines and stims for some. I also believe CBT techniques would be extremely helpful.
>
> I have never been forced to take any meds or vaccines. Example - I was given the opportunity to take the anthrax vaccine, and I opted in. It's optional. Nobody is forcing AD's either, it just happens to be (sadly, IMO) that AD's are the "standard of care" for depression.
>
> I believe Air Force pilots are still taking stims to ward off fatigue during long runs. Like I said, I'm in the Army so this may have changed. I know Army aviators are grounded if they take psychiatric medications - a tricky problem. It may deter some from choosing that career path (which may be good - we're not all cut out to be aviators), but it also discourages them from getting care when they may need it. There is no easy solution. A Blackhawk pilot may be impaired if taking a benzo, but may also be impaired if suffering from crippling anxiety.
>
> But my impression is not at all that we are being "doped". Incidents in the past, where soldiers were ordered to take meds are usually misunderstood. Take the example of the Gulf War, where pyridostigmine bromide was given before expected nerve agent attacks. This is sometimes perceived as forced medication. But it could have been life saving if the attacks had taken place. Commanders decided the risk was worth it. In a similar situation, with similar intel, I would probably do the same in the spirit of protecting our troops.
>
> These are tough times. I consider the daily stress of fighting an extremely unpopular war compounded with mental illness - it's piling horror on top of horror for very young people. My heart goes out to our soldiers.
>
>
>
>
Posted by gardenergirl on August 16, 2006, at 11:31:31
In reply to Re: Misunderstandings about military psych care » mattdds, posted by laima on August 16, 2006, at 10:54:59
This is the end of the thread.
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