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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JahL on August 7, 2006, at 20:19:00
BREAKING NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5253800.stm
Perhaps this is one of the reasons Ketamine is gaining popularity so quickly in the UK club scene.
I have a Bipolar relative who uses Ketamine regularly to quite good effect. His friend, who suffers from depression with psychotic features (possibly exacerbated by chronic crack use), is a changed man when using it; much more relaxed and amiable. I personally don't benefit at all, but there you go.
The question of hallucinations is an interesting one. I'm surprised the researchers didn't refer to any of the numerous articles available which suggest Lamotrigine attenuates the perceptual distortions and hallucinations which Ketamine users commonly experience.
Both my relative & I experimented with Ketamine years ago in the clubs and would often sink into a deep, deep K-Hole. Mind-blowing but scary. Now we both take relatively high doses of Lamotrigine and have found that it is ***impossible*** to experience any dissociative states.
Ketamine + Lamotrigine anybody?
Now I'm not suggesting that anyone goes and holds up their local vetanarian, but the report is certainly fascinating and gives us some insight into the therapeutic potential of NMDA antagonists.
Linkadge & co?
J.
Posted by linkadge on August 7, 2006, at 21:03:31
In reply to Drug 'treats depression in hours'., posted by JahL on August 7, 2006, at 20:19:00
Other NMDA antagonists have antidepressant effects too. Zinc, and Magnesium are acutely active in the forced swim test in mice, wheras antidepressants often take weeks to exert any kind of effect on immobility.
Many researchers think that even monoamine based antidepressants are actually exerting their effect via alteration in NMDA receptors.
Linkadge
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 8, 2006, at 6:32:42
In reply to Drug 'treats depression in hours'., posted by JahL on August 7, 2006, at 20:19:00
Thats fascinating
I always thought Ketamine was a bad drug that could make holes in your brain!
Maybe I'm not as immune to anti drug propaganda as I thought.
Would other disasoseative drugs like DXM have similar affects?
Are they also AMPA receptor antagonists?P.S. Jah did you get my email?
Posted by iforgotmypassword on August 8, 2006, at 15:13:25
In reply to Re: Drug 'treats depression in hours'., posted by Tom Twilight on August 8, 2006, at 6:32:42
a few studies have claimed this. especially with bifrontal it seems, which has alone already been documented to possibly have even less negative cognitive/memory than unilateral.
this underlines the likely excitotoxic nature of negative ECT effects.
i do not know if frequent full-on anesthetic doses of ketamine would be at all safe though. it may be indeed the least likely to hurt you compared to excess dextromethorphan or PCP, but complete and prolonged NMDA receptor blockade has at the very least shows lesions golore as a result in rat brains. i think this has shown in drug addicts... i seem to remember the types of lesions being seen as considered very distinct, as if they were 'textbook NDMA blockade lesions' or something... on the upside, dr. jay a. goldstein used ketamine therapeutically, and extensively, but not at anesthetic level... but that wouldnt be what you would want for ketamine alone anyway. in monotherapy, anesthetic or schizophrenia inducing levels is likely undesired?
maybe the answer is anesthetic combo, using lower ketamine dose along with something conventional in the case of ECT.
for the record i may have so relaxation and liquidization of my cognitive hardening so i can do things marginally better on magnesium. it would be hard to say for sure. i think it may specifically help my rage episodes, but i would hardly call it a magic bullet.
magnesium and zinc may have interesting notable effect, but if they say it spoils the effects of neurotin, and neurontin is already a medication with frustrating efficacy problems... i worry about magnesium being much of answer. especially when it seems that your bodies actual utilization of Mg you ingest is such a sketcy subject. and magnesium related problems seem very tedious and difficult to treat, acute response could be very unrepresentative of what response to real unambiguous NMDA response would be like.
memantine looks good, but expensive. amantadine is wierd... i wonder how much of it's effect is really the NMDA blockade, and if that blockade is even that effective at the doses they use. doctors sure haven't jumped on it that much. its DA/antiparkinsonian/antiEPS,TD/antiweightgain(esp for AP associated weightgain) effects seem much more touted, when amantadine is ever touted at all that is.
ketamine eyedrops may be cheap, if there's any viable method of getting your hands on them (without dealing with shifty loser drug dealers, that is.) you are supposed to respond IMMEDIATELY, so you get an actual idea and comparitive sense to know what it's actualy doing. that's assuming dr. jay a. goldstein wasn't a quack, but he seemed like a very smart and dedicated guy that helped a lot of people.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on August 8, 2006, at 15:16:24
In reply to ketamine as anesthetic protects cognition in ECT, posted by iforgotmypassword on August 8, 2006, at 15:13:25
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 17:12:17
In reply to ketamine as anesthetic protects cognition in ECT, posted by iforgotmypassword on August 8, 2006, at 15:13:25
Different NMDA antagonists have different effects. I never heard of magnesium causeing schizophrenia or paranoia, or euphoria for that matter.
I would think that NMDA antagonism is only one of the theraputic effects of ketamine.
I never understood how NMDA antagonists could be neurotoxic. Seems kindof paradoxical.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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