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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by paulbwell on July 9, 2006, at 9:42:36
what has been you experience with these meds?
Cheers
Posted by Jost on July 9, 2006, at 20:34:38
In reply to Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by paulbwell on July 9, 2006, at 9:42:36
Desoxyn is stronger than ritalin, according to Wikipedia:
"Because methamphetamine, the active ingredient in Desoxyn, is reported to be effective longer and fifty percent more effective per dose than amphetamine, for example, prescriptions for this drug may increase as ADD/ADHD treatment increases and as long-term users of other treatments gain tolerance to the other stimulant drugs used to treat ADD/ADHD."
Jost
Posted by med_empowered on July 11, 2006, at 3:22:57
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by Jost on July 9, 2006, at 20:34:38
I think it'd be nice if they'd use Desoxyn not just for add, but also for replacement for meth users. Its just too perfect...instead of forcing addicts to buy a dirty drug made from God-knows-what and risking jail time, put them on a controlled dose of the drug, plus other interventions (like therapy, group therapy, employment training, etc.). In the state where I live, this is apparently the primary use of Desoxyn--most ADD-ers and depressed people are put on Adderall or Dexedrine.
Plus, with all the technology we have now, it seems like someone could develop a patch or a less-abusable form of the stuff to make RXing it less tricky.
Posted by momofdnd on August 2, 2006, at 9:53:09
In reply to Rehabilitate Meth as a medication, posted by med_empowered on July 11, 2006, at 3:22:57
I used meth daily for several years. I also have ADHD but was not diagnosed with it until early in 2005. I went to the Doctor in 2005, told them that I was addicted to meth and needed help quitting. Of course, what I wanted was a legal drug with the same affects as Meth. Since I had been using meth in the past, no one would prescribe me anything that contained any type of stimulant because they were afraid I would abuse the drug.After a couple sessions the Doctor determined that it would be okay to prescibe my a stimulant based on my life style and character. At first they gave me 36mg of concerta daily. After a year and a half I am up to 72 ml of conerta plus 10mg of ritalin in the evening. This has help curve my desire for meth although it is not the same effect. As for abusing the drugs, I take the concerta faithly but tend to abuse the ritalin. I haven't done any meth for a year or more but that doesn't mean that I am not tempted on occasion. Bottom line in my opinion, It is possible to use these types of drugs to help rehabilitate some meth users but I doubt that it would work for most.
Posted by paulbwell on August 2, 2006, at 10:19:52
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by Jost on July 9, 2006, at 20:34:38
> Desoxyn is stronger than ritalin, according to Wikipedia:
>
> "Because methamphetamine, the active ingredient in Desoxyn, is reported to be effective longer and fifty percent more effective per dose than amphetamine, for example, prescriptions for this drug may increase as ADD/ADHD treatment increases and as long-term users of other treatments gain tolerance to the other stimulant drugs used to treat ADD/ADHD."
>
> JostHi Ya!
No Doc is gonna jump from methylphenidate (because you became tolerant to 40, 60 80+mgs) to medical methylphetamine.
They will more likely move up to the next step-ADDerall, then maybe Dexedrine.
WITH MUCH hesistancy, after time and dosage alterations, if you complain enought, and have good trust with said doc, they MAY (VERY SELDOMLY) loathingly! script medical meth, at a small dose (infrequently-but does happen)for sever treatment resistant, very stim tolerant folk.
Psydocs hate to scripe Methylphetamine, unless you have run the gamet and dosages of ADD/hd meds.
Most will not even entertain the notion.
Methylphetamine has a notorious social/medical stigma, unfortunately, as it often works wonders, with excellent PNS Vs CNS affinities.
SEVER long term Narcolepsy is the usual treatment of the med.
Thanks
Posted by Jost on August 2, 2006, at 12:21:49
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » Jost, posted by paulbwell on August 2, 2006, at 10:19:52
Interesting.
I talked on the phone to my pdoc about desoxyn, or maybe just dexedrine-- if there's a difference-- He said that adderall (or the amphetamine salt I've got, which I'm assuming is a generic adderall,) is a left=handed (or two-handed, I'm not sure) version of the same molecule as dexedrine-- and that the effects are very similar.
I think he might would give me dexedrine, if I asked more strongly, next time I see him.
But do you find desoxyn, or dexedrine more or less calming/stimulating vs adderall (or amphetamine)? I'm looking for something that doesn't make me so tense. I get sort of jittery on adderall.
Or is there something that's particularly good to take with it to smoothe the effects?
I don't have a tendency to get addicted-- or to use more drugs, anyway, I can stay at a low dose, pretty well. But I have concentration problems (or sitting still problems).
Jost
Posted by paulbwell on August 2, 2006, at 12:40:19
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » paulbwell, posted by Jost on August 2, 2006, at 12:21:49
> Interesting.
>
> I talked on the phone to my pdoc about desoxyn, or maybe just dexedrine-- if there's a difference-- He said that adderall (or the amphetamine salt I've got, which I'm assuming is a generic adderall,) is a left=handed (or two-handed, I'm not sure) version of the same molecule as dexedrine-- and that the effects are very similar.
>
> I think he might would give me dexedrine, if I asked more strongly, next time I see him.
>
> But do you find desoxyn, or dexedrine more or less calming/stimulating vs adderall (or amphetamine)? I'm looking for something that doesn't make me so tense. I get sort of jittery on adderall.
>
> Or is there something that's particularly good to take with it to smoothe the effects?
>
> I don't have a tendency to get addicted-- or to use more drugs, anyway, I can stay at a low dose, pretty well. But I have concentration problems (or sitting still problems).
>
> Jost
>
>Hi
Adderall-as you describe, often produces that effect.
Dexedrine, many report is 'more smooth'
Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hcl) is described, by the FEW HERE WHO HAVE/DO TAKE IT as even smoother, than Dex-due to it's unique, Serotonin release effects, along with it's other amphetamine cousin actions.
"sitting still" problems, mmmmm, try convincing a Psydoc them, that, that is a case for the strongest neurostimulant.Good luck!
What have you taken ?
Many say Dexedrine is more euphoric, while Desoxyn is smoother still, and has a more 'awakeing effect'-hence it's use for sever Narcolepsy.
Cheers
Posted by Jost on August 2, 2006, at 16:29:28
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » Jost, posted by paulbwell on August 2, 2006, at 10:19:52
Interesting.
I talked on the phone to my pdoc about desoxyn, or maybe just dexedrine-- if there's a difference-- He said that adderall (or the amphetamine salt I've got, which I'm assuming is a generic adderall,) is a left=handed (or two-handed, I'm not sure) version of the same molecule as dexedrine-- and that the effects are very similar.
I think he might would give me dexedrine, if I asked more strongly, next time I see him.
But do you find desoxyn, or dexedrine more or less calming/stimulating vs adderall (or amphetamine)? I'm looking for something that doesn't make me so tense. I get sort of jittery on adderall.
Or is there something that's particularly good to take with it to smoothe the effects?
I don't have a tendency to get addicted-- or to use more drugs, anyway, I can stay at a low dose, pretty well. But I have concentration problems (or sitting still problems).
Jost
Posted by alohashirt on August 3, 2006, at 21:34:31
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » paulbwell, posted by Jost on August 2, 2006, at 16:29:28
Some data:dexedrine == dextroamphetamine
desoyn == methylamphetaminei.e. These are different amphetamine drugs
Adderall is a mixture of dexedrine and three other amphetamine salts. I found dexedrine to be as stimulating as Adderall but less agitating. You might find that Focalin XR (which is a single isome r of Ritalin) has comparable effects to Aderall without the side effects. You may find that buspar helps with the agitation.
> Interesting.
>
> I talked on the phone to my pdoc about desoxyn, or maybe just dexedrine-- if there's a difference-- He said that adderall (or the amphetamine salt I've got, which I'm assuming is a generic adderall,) is a left=handed (or two-handed, I'm not sure) version of the same molecule as dexedrine-- and that the effects are very similar.
>
> I think he might would give me dexedrine, if I asked more strongly, next time I see him.
>
> But do you find desoxyn, or dexedrine more or less calming/stimulating vs adderall (or amphetamine)? I'm looking for something that doesn't make me so tense. I get sort of jittery on adderall.
>
> Or is there something that's particularly good to take with it to smoothe the effects?
>
> I don't have a tendency to get addicted-- or to use more drugs, anyway, I can stay at a low dose, pretty well. But I have concentration problems (or sitting still problems).
>
> Jost
>
>
Posted by rina on August 25, 2007, at 18:50:32
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » Jost, posted by paulbwell on August 2, 2006, at 10:19:52
do you have a suggestion of what i could add to my adderallxr? i need something with a immediate release to help in the morning. i've tried focalin and adderall ir so those are both out. my doc was going to give me dexedrine but i wanted to try the focalin with it first. still sleepy. im on adderallxr20xday and focalin5xday.
thanks
Posted by Paulbwell on August 25, 2007, at 19:16:13
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by rina on August 25, 2007, at 18:50:32
> do you have a suggestion of what i could add to my adderallxr? i need something with a immediate release to help in the morning. i've tried focalin and adderall ir so those are both out. my doc was going to give me dexedrine but i wanted to try the focalin with it first. still sleepy. im on adderallxr20xday and focalin5xday.
>
> thanks
Hi,WOW this is an old post!. If your taking Adderall 20XR 2x, isn't the Focalin helping in the morning? it should be effective quickly and has good reports from many here, similar to Ritalin with less SEs, perhaps a dose alteration of it or the XR may help? or you could just be treated with Adderall IR if that is satisfactory for you, giving you better flexibility of dosage. If Adderall is causing unacceptable bodily SEs-excess PNS stimulation, Dexedrine has been reported to be more satisfactory in lessing this. I guess from your post you are taking it for daytime sleepiness.
Cheers
Posted by rina on August 25, 2007, at 19:26:24
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » rina, posted by Paulbwell on August 25, 2007, at 19:16:13
I'm sorry Paul I wasn't clear. I'm taking AdderallXR20mg in the am and the pm. I'm also taking as of yesterday Focalin5mgxday because I wasn't feeling the Adderall starting or stopping. I just felt zoned out and tired all day. I needed an immediate release form of something to add to it so that I would have that morning alertness and focus. The addition of the focalin is doing nothing at all. That's why I'm thinking of either Dexedrine or Desoxyn or Methylphynidate.
Posted by Paulbwell on August 25, 2007, at 20:16:49
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by rina on August 25, 2007, at 19:26:24
> I'm sorry Paul I wasn't clear. I'm taking AdderallXR20mg in the am and the pm. I'm also taking as of yesterday Focalin5mgxday because I wasn't feeling the Adderall starting or stopping. I just felt zoned out and tired all day. I needed an immediate release form of something to add to it so that I would have that morning alertness and focus. The addition of the focalin is doing nothing at all. That's why I'm thinking of either Dexedrine or Desoxyn or Methylphynidate.
Hi,
I guess it depends on the relationship with your Doc, and how tolerant you are/length you have been taking Adderall for. 5mgs Focalin=10mgs Ritalin, so perhaps dosage is the reason for that. Many find Dexedrine more alerting than Adderall, which can cause sedation in some. I wonder what you are taking these meds for, the dosage of these meds starts low and raises till the benefits are apparent, then usually becomes stable.
Cheers
Posted by rina on August 25, 2007, at 20:29:31
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » rina, posted by Paulbwell on August 25, 2007, at 20:16:49
I take them for ADD. I have a psychiatrist as well as a ADD coach.
Posted by Paulbwell on August 25, 2007, at 20:47:22
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by rina on August 25, 2007, at 20:29:31
> I take them for ADD. I have a psychiatrist as well as a ADD coach.
How have you found coaching?, i find meditation and moderate exercise helpfull, even if it's just walking for a time, airs out the brain-LOLCheers
Posted by alohashirt on August 26, 2007, at 9:34:59
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » rina, posted by Paulbwell on August 25, 2007, at 20:47:22
My two cents:
I find amphetamines more sleep-inducing than methylphenidate. I found Focalin XR to be very different than Focalin. It starts out sharp and clear and is more "front-loaded" than Concerta.
Focalin XR is also much more consistent than amphetamines. The amphetamines can be strongly affected by food or acidic drinks.Stimulants don't make up for lack of sleep or fitness. If you aren't getting great sleep then exercise and more sleep will help.
Provigil or Olmifon (modafinil or adrafinil) can help with daytime sleepiness in a way that is complementary to stimulants.
Wellbutrin can also help with sleepiness and ADHD.
Less obvious but also helpful if you have mild depression (35% of ADHD people do) is Lexapro or Celexa.It's also worth doing bloodwork and checking thyroid levels and, if you are male, testosterone levels.
Fish oil, 5HTP, Ginko Biloba and L-Theanine are also worth considering.
Hope something here helps.
Posted by rina on August 26, 2007, at 13:41:24
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by alohashirt on August 26, 2007, at 9:34:59
thanks so much for your suggestiions. I've tried the focalinxr and the only thing is it cause depression for me and cotton mouth. i get plenty of rest and exercise as well. the only thing i haven't tried is wellbutrin. i'm currently taking lamictal,adderall,lexapro,topamax and trazadone. i think i might try dexedrine to add with the adderall and see if it helps. after that, if not, i'm back to square one.
Posted by Paulbwell on August 27, 2007, at 20:23:15
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn?, posted by alohashirt on August 26, 2007, at 9:34:59
> My two cents:
>
> I find amphetamines more sleep-inducing than methylphenidate.I too found this to be true. When i had a short trial of Dexamphetamine, after taking the first 5mg tab i fell into a VERY deep sleep for 2 hours and upon waking-felt totally refreshed. I felt as if i had slept a solid eight hours, this faded, but ensuing doses continued to cause sloathfullness and a lack of desire to do much bar lying on my bed and relaxing, which lead to it's discontinuation. I did try 5mgs Dex+10mgs Methylphenidate combined a couple times (Doc told me to throw away remaining Ritalin when Dex was given-i didn't) and found almost total relief of symptoms, however he told me they couldn't be taken together.
> and found quite I found Focalin XR to be very different than Focalin. It starts out sharp and clear and is more "front-loaded" than Concerta.
> Focalin XR is also much more consistent than amphetamines. The amphetamines can be strongly affected by food or acidic drinks.
>
> Stimulants don't make up for lack of sleep or fitness. If you aren't getting great sleep then exercise and more sleep will help.The meds work better when good sleep pattens are adhered to-yes.
>
> Provigil or Olmifon (modafinil or adrafinil) can help with daytime sleepiness in a way that is complementary to stimulants.
>
> Wellbutrin can also help with sleepiness and ADHD.Here it's only approaved for smoking cessation threapy.
> Less obvious but also helpful if you have mild depression (35% of ADHD people do) is Lexapro or Celexa.
>
> It's also worth doing bloodwork and checking thyroid levels and, if you are male, testosterone levels.
>
> Fish oil, 5HTP, Ginko Biloba and L-Theanine are also worth considering.3 grammes EPA is recommended-it helps. Green tea is rich in L-theanine, which relaxes and also inhibits the Dopamine destroying enzymes-enhancing stimulant meds actions.
>
> Hope something here helps.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 27, 2007, at 20:32:17
In reply to Re: Ritalin Vs Dexedrine VsDesoxyn? » alohashirt, posted by Paulbwell on August 27, 2007, at 20:23:15
I missed your return. You sound good. Are you living up to your screen name?
Lar
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