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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jealibeanz on July 31, 2006, at 17:21:20
Does anyone know what caffeine stimulates? Is it related to an increase in dopamine? I know that my mood is increased when I drink coffee. Maybe this could be some sort of hint as to what type of medication may help my depression?
Posted by Phillipa on July 31, 2006, at 22:58:38
In reply to Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on July 31, 2006, at 17:21:20
Chocolate does that to me and I know it has caffeine in it and theophylline. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 0:14:07
In reply to Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on July 31, 2006, at 17:21:20
Caffeine is a little complicated, because it's main mechanism of action is not to bind to some receptor (like a serotonin receptor) but rather to increase certain cells' production of somethingerother. Here's a run-down of the theories: I got this off of
http://groups.msn.com/FoodiesCorner/caffeineaddiction.msnw
Calcium Mobility Theory: Caffeine influences the body's response to neutrotransmitters through affecting the output of neuromediators which indirectly increases the influx of calcium ions into the cells adn therefore increases the force of contraction of the heart muscles
Phosphodiesterase Inhibition: The human body stores energy in the muscles in the form of sugars called glycogens. When you need a burst of energy, glycogen is released and burned as fuel. In the 1950s, researchers disocvered a hormone called cAMP (cyclic Adenosine Monophosphate) mediates the actions of many neurotransmitters and hormones of the nervous system. It is believed that caffeine may trigger cAMP to regular glycogen.
Adenosine Blockage: Adenosine is a neuromodulator with mood depressing, hypnotic and anticonvulsant properties and tends to induce hypotension, descreases the rate of spontaneous nerve cell firing. It is believed that caffeine's mechanism of action acts as a competitive antagonist of adenosins and achieves most of its stimulant effects by blocking the uptake and actions of Adenosine.****
as you can see, because adenosine is such a widespread neuromodulator, caffeine has the potential to act on neurons that secrete or receive many different neurotransmitters. It's pretty messy up there in our brains, huh?Stick with the coffee, if it's helping-- great for you. I for one would definitely would rather spend my money on yummy coffee than pills. Mention this to your pdoc, and she might have some interesting ideas too.
best,
-ll
Posted by curtm on August 1, 2006, at 8:22:20
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee » jealibeanz, posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 0:14:07
llrrrppilollipopopenoramine is always good medicine I think. Don't you?
Posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 9:46:33
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee, posted by curtm on August 1, 2006, at 8:22:20
> llrrrppilollipopopenoramine is always good medicine I think. Don't you?
Where do I get it? from the Jolly Rancher?
[sorry to hijack this thread- I couldn't resist.]
Posted by jealibeanz on August 1, 2006, at 11:26:41
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee » curtm, posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 9:46:33
Any actual medications to suggest?
Posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 11:31:57
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on August 1, 2006, at 11:26:41
Hi jealibeanz,
do you have fatigue at all?
My mom takes provigil and notices a nice antidepressant effect. I also notice an antidepressant effect, but I'm on a lot of psych meds.Provigil is a stimulant, but it's mechanism of action is unknown. perhaps similar to amphetamine-type drugs, but I don't think it's in this family. one risk is that it might cause hypomania/mania in people prone to bipolar symptoms.
sorry for the hijack
-ll 'lollipop'
Posted by Crazy Horse on August 1, 2006, at 11:37:01
In reply to Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on July 31, 2006, at 17:21:20
> Does anyone know what caffeine stimulates? Is it related to an increase in dopamine? I know that my mood is increased when I drink coffee. Maybe this could be some sort of hint as to what type of medication may help my depression?
It absolutely increases dopamine, and strong coffee lifts my mood too..used to a lot more when i was younger then it does now (have developed tolerance i suppose). And you are correct, if it increase your mood, i think you (and me) are dopamine deficent. This is why i think dopaminergic meds like EMSAM and Lyrica work best for me. I still drink my coffee too :) Best wishes to you, and good insight!
Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on August 1, 2006, at 11:39:21
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee » jealibeanz, posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 0:14:07
> Caffeine is a little complicated, because it's main mechanism of action is not to bind to some receptor (like a serotonin receptor) but rather to increase certain cells' production of somethingerother. Here's a run-down of the theories: I got this off of
>
> http://groups.msn.com/FoodiesCorner/caffeineaddiction.msnw
>
> Calcium Mobility Theory: Caffeine influences the body's response to neutrotransmitters through affecting the output of neuromediators which indirectly increases the influx of calcium ions into the cells adn therefore increases the force of contraction of the heart muscles
>
> Phosphodiesterase Inhibition: The human body stores energy in the muscles in the form of sugars called glycogens. When you need a burst of energy, glycogen is released and burned as fuel. In the 1950s, researchers disocvered a hormone called cAMP (cyclic Adenosine Monophosphate) mediates the actions of many neurotransmitters and hormones of the nervous system. It is believed that caffeine may trigger cAMP to regular glycogen.
>
> Adenosine Blockage: Adenosine is a neuromodulator with mood depressing, hypnotic and anticonvulsant properties and tends to induce hypotension, descreases the rate of spontaneous nerve cell firing. It is believed that caffeine's mechanism of action acts as a competitive antagonist of adenosins and achieves most of its stimulant effects by blocking the uptake and actions of Adenosine.
>
> ****
> as you can see, because adenosine is such a widespread neuromodulator, caffeine has the potential to act on neurons that secrete or receive many different neurotransmitters. It's pretty messy up there in our brains, huh?
>
> Stick with the coffee, if it's helping-- great for you. I for one would definitely would rather spend my money on yummy coffee than pills. Mention this to your pdoc, and she might have some interesting ideas too.
>
> best,
> -llWHOA..Heavy stuff, but very good info. :)
Monte
Posted by jealibeanz on August 1, 2006, at 11:52:40
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee » jealibeanz, posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 11:31:57
OK s there's:
EMSAM, an MAOI
Provigil, a stimulant, but my doc doesn't like this med
Lyrica- what type is this?
Wellbutrin, right? but I've taken it and don't want to againAny others?
Stimulants, like Ritalin would, right? But I'm not too sure about it b/c I hated Adderall. I just stopped my Strattera for ADHD though, so I may need to find another med for concentration, since I lack some focus/energy now, although it's not a severe case.
Posted by jealibeanz on August 20, 2006, at 1:03:40
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee » jealibeanz, posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 0:14:07
I was reading on biopsych that coffee acts like an MAOI. It also works on A1 receptors, which are active in stimulants like Provigil (going through withdrawal from a supply I had obtained, unprescribed... ughhhh faaaaatigue!). Wow, wish I had my own prescription pad... I'd give myself EMSAM and lots of Provigil.
Provigil does seem to reduce anxiety, improve mood, and concentration. This with the addition of the EMSAM metabolites, seem like they'd help with my ADHD, since I'm no longer medicated.
Has anymore heard any more about the Provigil clone, Sparlon, that was turned down last time it went before FDA approval for child/teen ADHD?
Posted by Tomatheus on August 25, 2006, at 21:56:47
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on August 20, 2006, at 1:03:40
> Has anymore heard any more about the Provigil clone, Sparlon, that was turned down last time it went before FDA approval for child/teen ADHD?
Jealibeanz,
It was announced on Aug. 9 that the FDA failed to approve Sparlon because one patient taking the drug in a clinical trial developed Stevens Johnson syndrome.
Here's a link to an article on the FDA's decision (a free registration is required to view the entire article):
Tomatheus
Posted by jealibeanz on August 26, 2006, at 1:58:52
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee » jealibeanz, posted by Tomatheus on August 25, 2006, at 21:56:47
Thanks for the link. I had found some articles on this. I'm very surprised. It's not even a new drug, just being approved for a new use. It's not a true stimulant. One would think the FDA would like that idea since children are going to be medicated for ADHD in some form no matter what. Now they'll just have to stick to Adderall, Ritalin, Concerta, etc, which many consider dangerous.
The company even commented that the one child more likely did not develop Steven Johnson Syndrome because of Sparlon. Yet, they don't appear to have fought had to push it through and don't seem to be all that adament about getting it reviewed again anytime in the near future. It's so difficult to run trials on children. The FDA seems to be using extra caution with pediatric approved drugs (i.e. blackbox warnings on AD's). They must be frustrated.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 26, 2006, at 12:46:29
In reply to Re: Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on August 26, 2006, at 1:58:52
Jealibeanz,
I was also quite surprised by the FDA's decision. As you pointed out, Cephalon representatives have argued that the child who reportedly experienced symptoms of Stevens Johnson syndrome while taking Sparlon did not develop the syndrome because of the drug. In fact, it appears that it's questionable as to whether or not the actual syndrome even developed in the child at all. The company seems to be saying that it was *suspected* that the child may have developed Stevens Johnson syndrome (probably because he/she experienced symptoms that could have potentially been explained by the syndrome), but that it ultimately turned out that he/she did not actually develop the syndrome.
I don't know a whole lot about modafinil (the active ingredient in both Provigil and Sparlon), but based on the limited amount of information that I've come across concerning the drug, it seems to me that its safety profile would be rather favorable in comparison to that of stimulants like Ritalin and Adderall. I do find it encouraging that the FDA seems to be exercising more caution in approving medications for pediatric use than they used to, but I think the agency may have gone too far in this case. If anything, modafinil seems to be less likely to produce adverse effects than the stimulants, so I question whether the FDA's decision to reject Sparlon was truly based on safety concerns. As I understand it, numerous FDA officials have been accused of having ties with certain pharmaceutical companies. I wonder to what extent the FDA's decision on Sparlon might have been influenced by political pressure from Shire (the manufacturer of Adderall) and/or Novartis (the manufacturer of Ritalin) -- companies that clearly would have regarded Sparlon as another competitor in the ADHD drug market. As far as I know, there isn't any convincing evidence to support the idea that the FDA's decision was politically driven, but honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if that turned out to be the case.
Tomatheus
> Thanks for the link. I had found some articles on this. I'm very surprised. It's not even a new drug, just being approved for a new use. It's not a true stimulant. One would think the FDA would like that idea since children are going to be medicated for ADHD in some form no matter what. Now they'll just have to stick to Adderall, Ritalin, Concerta, etc, which many consider dangerous.
>
> The company even commented that the one child more likely did not develop Steven Johnson Syndrome because of Sparlon. Yet, they don't appear to have fought had to push it through and don't seem to be all that adament about getting it reviewed again anytime in the near future. It's so difficult to run trials on children. The FDA seems to be using extra caution with pediatric approved drugs (i.e. blackbox warnings on AD's). They must be frustrated.
Posted by Wildflower on August 30, 2006, at 19:29:52
In reply to Caffeine/Coffee, posted by jealibeanz on July 31, 2006, at 17:21:20
> Does anyone know what caffeine stimulates? Is it related to an increase in dopamine? I know that my mood is increased when I drink coffee. Maybe this could be some sort of hint as to what type of medication may help my depression?
Very scary... I came over to Babble to post a very similar message. I'm not a coffee drinker but I force it down at work when I'm dragging. The effect is great but only temporarily. I've tried other ADs but nothing works better than the coffee...even the high caffiene drinks don't have the same effect.
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