![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on July 31, 2006, at 10:23:42
In reply to Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by Karen44 on July 31, 2006, at 0:08:40
Karen, with all due respect, your above post appears to be an affirmation message to yourself rather than an accurate description of the majority of people on this board.
Why do people get caught up in searching "for the good life soley" in some medication? I don't think that's the case with the majority of people in here; however, with those that you feel do, the answer is easy: HOPE. A hope to get better, and it's that hope that inspires them to search and search. Perhaps there is someone in here that is in the same type of situation, found a med that worked for it ... and may help them, too. (That's the short answer).
Again, your post appears to be some sort of confirmation to yourself. You seem like a great person, very well spoken and thoughtful, and your presence will be missed. Best wishes and we're always here if you need someone to chat with. Michael
Posted by pseudoname on July 31, 2006, at 11:43:07
In reply to Who said meds were the whole answer?????????????, posted by UgottaHaveHope on July 31, 2006, at 10:23:42
> your above post appears to be an affirmation message to yourself rather than an accurate description
Hi, Michael.
Apologies if this comes across as pedantic; I don't know how else to write it.
If we have a difference of opinion with another poster, it may be better simply to present evidence for our point of view than to make conclusions about the other's motivations or to characterize their opinion psychologically. I know that alternative interpretations are better-received if they don't *directly* characterize someone else's inner life (the "don't jump to conclusions" thing). I've done the characterizing routine myself, so I also know it doesn't mean anything bad about the writer; it's just something we can watch out for.
I recall that you've made somewhat similar posts to Karen's in the past. Were they "confirmations to yourself", as you say? I think it would be interesting to hear such experiences and any insights about them — if in fact that was the case.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 31, 2006, at 11:56:54
In reply to about life » Karen44, posted by pseudoname on July 31, 2006, at 10:02:47
Hey PN!
That was a great post.
>But there are a lot of successful experiences here.
I like to think I'm a success story (so far anyway, there's always the chance of remission, unfortunately). When I first came here a couple of years ago, it was out of sheer desperation, because I was taking Celexa and had turned into a sleeping, carb munching zombie with no life and no motivation to do anything.
Thankfully, people here educated me about the real side effects of drugs like celexa, and I was able to discontinue and try a few other things. To cut a long and rather boring story sort, I'm doing well now on rhodiola (and some other herbs) and I can honestly say thats its been mostly down to Babble and my own research. Even the fact that I managed to see a pdoc here on the NHS was down to Babble - I didn't realise you had to sort of 'ask' for it, and really push for your GP to refer you to one.
I'm still here, even through I'm well (ish), because I like to keep up to date with my friends and to learn more about the brain.
But I can see how it might appear that we're all fixated trying to find the perfect med. But don't forget that there's a bunch of other boards here too completely unrelated to medications. If you were to jumble all the threads together over the whole site, you would be able to get a more realistic view of the traffic and content of Babble.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by idolamine on July 31, 2006, at 12:19:41
In reply to Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by Karen44 on July 31, 2006, at 0:08:40
OK
> I have taken note that there are a number of people who have, as I have, been on a number of medications and have had problems with many of the medications. I also wonder how many people get caught up in searching for the good life soley in some medication and don't try to live life or perhaps make excuses to themselves why they can't move forward with their life. I will likely be backing off from PsychoBabble, only to return if I have a question. I am aware that many people must spend most of their time on this site. Why is that?? Answering and searching, I suppose. I have decided I need to stop wallowing (for me) and get on with things. I wish everyone well.
>
> Karen
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2006, at 15:02:33
In reply to Re: about life » pseudoname, posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 31, 2006, at 11:56:54
A lot of people here have got to know each other and like chatting with each other.
Look at how much I know about some of you and how much I've told you about me.It is different to face to face contact, but that doesn't make it more or less real......isn't it like writing letters?
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 31, 2006, at 15:26:23
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by wacky on July 31, 2006, at 9:20:17
> I have not been on this site for very long and have certainly gleened some very valuable information from it. However, I could see that spending too much time focusing on the illness could in itself become counterproductive. If I did not work - it would be very easy to spend hours here. For some, it could be lifesaving - for others, paying too much attention to the illness. Things tend to grow that we pay too much attention to.
Your post is right on...paying too much attention on the illness, hanging here for hours every day can be counter productive. Excellent post..i agree 100%! :)
Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 31, 2006, at 15:29:26
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by Phillipa on July 31, 2006, at 10:00:17
> True as reading the med board reminds of how many meds have failed and you tend to spend your time thinking only of meds. But I enjoy the interracting of the great people here. To say it's kindda a hobby wouldn't be fair. As I have learned so much here things I would never learn elsewhere. So I'm thankful to this site. Love Phillipa
Yea..that's what i like too Jan. And i have learned a lot about pharmacology here. Meeting good people, i.e., you, Marty and John. Others too. :)
Monte
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2006, at 16:25:26
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about life?? » Phillipa, posted by Crazy Horse on July 31, 2006, at 15:29:26
I can only answer for myself.
At this point I'm not in any significant search for a medication to help me. I am looking for ways to possably reverse some of the problems the medications have caused.
I'm also looking for any information that may help my mothers condition, since there are a number of bipolars here.
Finally I have come to talk with people here that I have known for a long time.
For some people, the condition is chronic with or without medications. This site can simply offer hope, and perhaps new ways to approach their illness. Its just one tool in the box.
Linkadge
Posted by llrrrpp on July 31, 2006, at 23:24:32
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2006, at 16:25:26
Hi all,
I came to this board when I was terrified and twitching and panicky about losing my mind on my very first ever psych-med. What I found was that a lot of people experience just what I have, and often far worse. And no matter how many times the pdoc says: it sounds like a side effect/you are probably anxious and it's affecting your sleep/you should try to stick it out a few more weeks... I just wanted to go into hibernation and emerge when I was "better".I had strange expectations regarding psych-meds. I guess not so strange, given the advertising on TV. I would be depressed, take a magic pill and then catch butterflies and play with puppies. On psycho-babble I enjoy hearing people's personal stories. I have learned a lot about mental illness, pharmacology and healthcare here. I have revised many expectations, and suggested things to my pdoc which ended up positively affecting my treatment.
Most of all, I think I have learned a lot from people that I used to shun as 'psycho'. You see, despite a family history of schizophrenia, bipolar, alcoholism and depression, I was arrogant and thought I was 'healthy'. I thought people were weak who needed to see a shrink or take 'those' kind of medications. I thought pdocs were little more than legal drug dealers with nice offices. Mostly I was scared of "them" the people in mental health- patients and practitioners, & probably of myself as well.
I was SOOOOO wrong. 'psycho' people are real people. Just because they have severe depression doesn't make them less human. It doesn't change the fact that we worry about our family, our jobs, our health and our money. Our problems may be more complicated, rarer, and so on, but we can learn so much from the roadblocks and insights of others who are walking the road of recovery with us.
The care and support of the mental health community was first demonstrated to me on psycho-babble. I learned that T and pdoc were not part of a 'system' to put me into a special category of 'crazy-psycho-for-life'. Rather, I learned that they care for my well-being and hope for my recovery. I could not have interpreted the events of my early sessions with T and pdoc were it not for p-babble help.
And finally, I made some good friends here- people from all over the place. I like meeting nice people.
sorry so long. I just wanted to reflect on how far I've come and how much I owe psycho-babble (all the boards)
-ll
Posted by Phillipa on August 1, 2006, at 0:02:08
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about li, posted by llrrrpp on July 31, 2006, at 23:24:32
You're too intelligent. Can they clone you? Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 0:04:55
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about li » llrrrpp, posted by Phillipa on August 1, 2006, at 0:02:08
> You're too intelligent. Can they clone you? Love Phillipa
Phillipa,
they don't want to clone me- I'm crazy, remember?:o)
-ll
Posted by Karen44 on August 1, 2006, at 1:14:29
In reply to Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by Karen44 on July 31, 2006, at 0:08:40
I am sorry; I don't know what I did wrong, but my message did not go through. I will try to remember what I said. I wanted to say that I hoped I had not offended anyone as I was posting about what I think I need to do and just wondered about others and how this has helped. I see it has helped a number of people for various reasons.
As far as coming back to help others, I do not think this is very likely. However, I won't rule it out. The reason I say it is unlikely and actually very unlikely is because I am a psychologist and spend my days working with others (actually as a forensic psychologist of recent), and so I think it would be counterproductive for me to spend my days and evenings "helping."
I also want to say that I have found it helpful to have others give input to me and my situation. There are some people who appear to be very knowledgeable about psychopharacology. I have had some very difficult times with finding a medication that will not cause adverse reactions and/or allergic reactions. This was a problem for me in my younger days as well when I became very depressed.
I will not say I am not depressed as I am very depressed, and I hope I can find a medication or medications that will help. I won't give up on this. For now, with the medication not so helpful, I plan to try to focus on work and friends. This works but not indefinitely, and so I know that any effort to gut it out and "pretend" I am okay will only work for so long. It would be very easy for me to just pull the covers over my head and never get out of bed to see anyone. I know too that doing something like that would only make me worse. So, I will try to manage as best I can until medication works. If it does not work, then I am not sure what I might do. ECT might be an option, but I am no where close to thinking I would consider it.
Who knows; I might be back sooner than I think if my bronchoscopy results show something I am not sure I want to know. Don't think there is any cancer, but a scrapping and some washings were sent off to see and rule out for sure. I am trying to stay positive. Anyway, I may pop back in from time to time but not daily, and this having been said,it is doubtful I will post for awhile. Take care everyone, and I wish you well.
Karen
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 1, 2006, at 4:55:44
In reply to Re: Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by Karen44 on August 1, 2006, at 1:14:29
PN, I am sorry if you have me confused with someone else, but I have never made "similiar" comments to Karen44 or anyone on this web site. I have tried to support or encourage Karen44, as I always do with everyone and will continue to do so.
I just took issue with a generalization she made: "I am aware that many people must spend most of their time on this site." I'm one of the most frequent posters and I average probably 20 minutes per day, if that. But if someone wanted to most of their time here, then I think that's fine too, as would everyone else. This is a healthy site, designed to educate and encourage others. There is a wealth of information on here for people in need.
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 1, 2006, at 5:56:43
In reply to Medications the whole answer and what about life??, posted by Karen44 on July 31, 2006, at 0:08:40
3rd world countries and the people within them have a contentment and happiness that completely outweights that of the rich develeped countries of the world. Why? I don't know but I've witnessed it with my own eyes. Until we reach that balance perhaps the drugs help our thinking to stop us feeling repressed and down about our future ahead in the world of drug advertisments selling an idea whereby the only people really living that gratifying life are those in the 3rd world countries. I think the advertisment should be on how to live like they do in other parts of the world where they are far more happier overall and psychiatric drugs are simply not needed as much.
Psychiatric drugs are becoming our daily diet and filling a hole in our lifes, when truely the answer to filling that hole is what we choose it to be, whether that be psycho babble, medications, sex, socializing with friends or a whole number of things.
The more I enage in what life can give me which totally gives me balance, structure, goals and rewards etc, I find I need less drugs to artificially aid me in life. When these things fall apart and my psyche drops, I pick up the drugs, knowing it will do "something" but never enough to what life has to offer without them.
~
Posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 6:47:29
In reply to Pseudoname, I stand by everything I said before, posted by UgottaHaveHope on August 1, 2006, at 4:55:44
> PN, I am sorry if you have me confused with someone else, but I have never made "similiar" comments to Karen44 or anyone on this web site.
> I just took issue with a generalization she made [i.e., about Babblers]
I meant that, in my reading of them, you have made comments that were similar to Karen's *comments* — but only to the extent that they seemed constructed as Babbler generalizations; and not that you made the comments *to Karen*.
> I have tried to support or encourage Karen44
I don't question your motivations at all, Michael. My point was simply that I don't want others to question Karen's motivations, either, in the way that I outlined in my post.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 1, 2006, at 9:03:38
In reply to Re: Pseudoname, I stand by everything I said before » UgottaHaveHope, posted by pseudoname on August 1, 2006, at 6:47:29
> My point was simply that I don't want others to question Karen's motivations
> I like Karen's post ... because it's clearly voiced from her point of view, it's not sneering, and it sounds like genuine dialogue-type questions.
Thanks for supporting Karen (and contributing in other ways), I appreciate that.
> Others making similar points sometimes have such a tone of moral superiority. Sometimes people come here just for the purpose of saying what a waste of time it is to come here.
But I'm afraid I need to ask you please to be careful when doing that not to jump to conclusions about others or to post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Declan on August 1, 2006, at 12:54:48
In reply to Quality of life the answer, and what about drugs?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 1, 2006, at 5:56:43
Spot on, Sobriquet. Nice post. Anyway, the drugs aren't what they used to be, but it's good to know what to avoid. I just come here to chat.
Posted by nickguy on August 1, 2006, at 17:25:22
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, and what about dru » Sobriquet Style, posted by Declan on August 1, 2006, at 12:54:48
I think it's alright aslong as we see psychiatric medication as a tool, and not the whole toolbox. I really don't think I could ever come to terms with this experience if I took a pill and everything was fine. I wouldn't feel whole, and I think it's important to see this as an emotional and for some, spiritual growing experience.
Posted by Emme on August 1, 2006, at 17:45:01
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, and what about dru, posted by nickguy on August 1, 2006, at 17:25:22
> I really don't think I could ever come to terms with this experience if I took a pill and everything was fine.
I can appreciate how you would feel that way. For me it would be the opposite. I would be very happy if I took a pill and everything was fine. (Actually, that's been close to true at different times when meds have worked well.) I would be quite pleased because the wellness would permit me to:
- concentrate well enough to work on establishing I career I will feel good about.
- feel normal emotions so that I could enjoy music and poetry and films.
- have enough energy and motivation to keep up with my friends
- have enough energy and focus to learn new things.Which isn't to say I'm not trying to do these things anyway. But there is a difference in my ability to engage in life when the meds are working. I believe that for some people, they are *the* tool that makes all the other tools usable.
Posted by Gabbi~G on August 1, 2006, at 18:14:18
In reply to Quality of life the answer, and what about drugs?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 1, 2006, at 5:56:43
What Emme said is exactly true for me as well.
"Which isn't to say I'm not trying to do these things anyway. But there is a difference in my ability to engage in life when the meds are working. I believe that for some people, they are *the* tool that makes all the other tools usable."I'm really curious though at how you came to the conclusion that people in the third world have a joy that we don't. That's a really broad statement and certainly doesn't mesh with what I've learned about the treatement of Women, or Lower Castes, or the children who are drug addicted and used as prostitutes or sold into slavery because of poverty.
It's true that a certain survival skill does develop when people are in a dire situation.
For instance during the holocaust more people
killed themselves after escaping concentration camps, than did inside the camps. That's because for the most part they had something to live for when they were imprisoned. For the impoverished it's finding the next meal.
Obviously that's not joy though.
Posted by nickguy on August 1, 2006, at 22:08:59
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, *triggers* » Sobriquet Style, posted by Gabbi~G on August 1, 2006, at 18:14:18
> What Emme said is exactly true for me as well.
Now that I think about it, I agree with what Emme said too, I guess for some meds are the KEY to the toolbox. But I think for a majority, meds can be a tool, but things like therapy are more important for their recovery.
>
> I'm really curious though at how you came to the conclusion that people in the third world have a joy that we don't. That's a really broad statement and certainly doesn't mesh with what I've learned about the treatement of Women, or Lower Castes, or the children who are drug addicted and used as prostitutes or sold into slavery because of poverty.
>That is way too broad of a statement, but It reminds me of something from the book "Lincoln's melancholia," a book about Abraham Lincoln and his depression. When he went on a slave boat for the first time, he saw the slaves all chained up and living in terrible conditions. However, they were singing and smiling, and Lincoln, a man of a political esteem, wished he could be in their place.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 1, 2006, at 22:47:53
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, *triggers* » Sobriquet Style, posted by Gabbi~G on August 1, 2006, at 18:14:18
my pdoc told me that the meds weren't going to make me better. they were going to make me feel a little bit better, but the real work was going to take place with my T.
When I was feeling really ill, all I wanted was a magic pill. Imagine my dissappointment.
Now that I'm feeling really good, I wonder what T and I are working on, exactly?
hmm.
-ll
Posted by SLS on August 2, 2006, at 0:42:02
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, *triggers*, posted by nickguy on August 1, 2006, at 22:08:59
> But I think for a majority, meds can be a tool, but things like therapy are more important for their recovery.
It really depends upon what it is we are talking about treating.
Depression is too big of a word in the English language. When it is used to describe what it is that I am suffering from, a biological intervention is all that is needed. When it is used to describe what it is that you are suffering from, apparently, psychotherapy is necessary. Whether or not this is the case with the majority may be debatable depending on the definition we choose to apply to the word "depression".
Because depression, being one word, is used to describe at least two different things, great confusion in communication is the result, which often leads to intense disagreements.
- Scott
Posted by Declan on August 2, 2006, at 2:16:54
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, *triggers* » nickguy, posted by SLS on August 2, 2006, at 0:42:02
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 2, 2006, at 6:14:38
In reply to Re: Quality of life the answer, *triggers* » Sobriquet Style, posted by Gabbi~G on August 1, 2006, at 18:14:18
>I'm really curious though at how you came to the conclusion that people in the third world have a joy that we don't.
I would be too, as I was when I'd read about the 3rd world, before I had visted some of the countries. Granted I havent visited all of the countries, but i've been to a fair few which spans The America's - North, Central and South, Europe East and West, Asia (small part) and Africa (small part) Based on what i've seen in the various countries, their histories, cultures and the way of life of the local people eg being lucky enough to see how they live off the land with limited to no electricity/water and invited into their homes and other things, is what I base my conclusion on comparing them to the western developed countries I've been too.
Before this, I had read about it and thought, no way! Surely the developed western world is a far happier place. But serioulsy, and i'm sure there will be those who disagree, but based on my own opinon of what I've seen is the only way I can attest to my statement.
>That's a really broad statement
Perhaps, but to narrow it down (oxymoron?) I'd have to write a book!
>the treatement of Women, or Lower Castes, or the children who are drug addicted and used as prostitutes or sold into slavery because of poverty.
Thats interesting, the treatment of women, drug addicts and prostitution happens all over the world, but I know what you're saying.
Its hard to explain in writing, unless I wrote a book and can copy the amazon link! but in short, theres a social, health and happiness element in some of the 3rd world countries i've seen where people live from just afew dollars day if they're lucky, some in what could be described as shacks, with a separate outer building where theres a fire for food and home made beds and roofs made from the plants around them. Fair size families with the elderly to 6 months year old babies that look so healthy its truely astonishing. They have no social security, but everyone is so friendly torwards each other that the people who live close by are the social security. The job they do compared to welfare is, well its hard to put into words but its a better system than phoning a number being put on hold whilst you wait to speak to a stranger pressing 1 this, 2 for that etc. The food they eat is so healthy they live longer, they don't need any vitamins and in some respects the food tastes better than microwave meals. Even in some african countries where they get food from the UN, the food that they hunt for themselves be it cattle or crocodile, the people are so happy its unreal. They don't have burger king, and in all honestly i'm not sure if they'd want it... Antidepressants, their life is the antidepressant..
To sum up there was a recent happiness study published measuring peoples wellbeing and their impact on the environment. A tiny island in the South Pacific came top called Vanuatu. Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominica and Panama were also close in the top 5. This is where theres prostitution drugs and a different treatment of women too.
The United States came 150th, Canada 111th, Britain 108th and France 129th etc etc. To put this in perspective, I wouldn't say its exact, as of course everyone has their own opinons, but based on the countires i've visted I'd say its probably on the right tracks in my own opinon. A short while ago I was in South America speaking to someone from the States - who said to me, "Man, what I'd do to leave the States and live in a shack in a 3rd world country, I'd have a great life and hope to do it someday" Who'd of thought?
~
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.