![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Think1234 on May 31, 2006, at 6:03:29
Dear Dr. Bob readers,
As many who are aware of DoD matters know, the military is studying and finding ways to change sleep architecture and prolong wakefulness. You may not be aware that they are experimenting on humans without their consent. And that they have found a way to attenuate sleep patterns for long periods of time without the constant use of drugs like Provigil or aphetamines.
I know these things because I believe that I was the subject of a guinea pig experiment. I admit that that sounds crazy, but please read on.
I visited the office of Dr. William C. Klindt, which is called Silicon Valley Brain SPECT Imaging. Their office is located in San Jose, CA. A SPECT is sometimes called a poor man’s PET. It assesses brain perfusion levels, but not at the level of detail that a PET can. I visited his office because I had ADD, severe executive functioning difficulties, possibly Aspergers or Non Verbal Learning Disorder, and dyslexia, and I have been diagnosed with a learning disability pertaining to writing. I also have dysthymia and General Social Phobia. I wanted to see if there was any significant or obvious pattern of brain activity that could explain my multiple conditions.
I took the SPECT twice. These visits occurred during late April of 2005. Once for a resting scan, and another for a concentration scan. On the first scan I experienced for several seconds confusion and an interruption of my normal thought processes. (Its difficult to explain but you aren’t supposed to feel or experience anything under a SPECT scan) After that, and before I took a second SPECT scan several weeks later, I experienced periods of confusion and difficulty concentrating which occurred periodically and lasted from 10 minutes to about a half hour at a time. While I was unsure of why this was happening I attributed it to the stress involved in traveling from one place to another.
After I took the second scan I developed the exact set of reactions described above, however other reactions/symptoms began developing later. These symptoms are described below.
Symptoms:
1.Physical.
A. Attenuated sleep lasting for 6 months following the SPECT. I would sleep typically only 6 hours. However, if I stood up all night, and had to wake up at a specific time. Even If I only slept 4 hours I would feel no tiredness during the day. Whenever I awoke I would be fully alert without the normal grogginess following waking. If I deprived myself of sleep for a a day the most amount of sleep I could achieve was 8 hours. Before the SPECT I would often sleep for 8 hours and awaken, I would then go back to sleep for about 2 hours typically. After the SPECT onece I awoke I could not go back to sleep
B. I experienced much lighter sleep for 6 months that I’ve ever had before. I am
normally a very deep sleeper.
B. Blurred vision, and double vision, in both eyes following two weeks after the second SPECT. This continues to this day2. Neurological
A. Memory problems- particularly during the first two months, after the second SPECT. I was unable to recall my current residential phone number at the time and I was unable to recall the phone number of my parents. (where I used to live before going to college. I could not recall names of friends or restaurants I frequented in my home town.
B. Decreased typing speed, which still continues to this day.
C. Word Mix ups- This continues to this day. I might call a lemon a lime or a door wedge a door ledge.
D. Profound difficulty recognizing the direction of a sound,
E. Difficulty spelling very simple words, which I knew I was able to spell before. Such as “Laser” vs. Lasar” Especially during the 9 months after the test. Spelling has improved but not completely.
F. Math Problems with simple calculations.
G. A sense that my IQ which tested 130 on the WAIS had dropped.
H. I often leave out letters or words when I’m writing something. I will have to edit this paper carefully in order to make sure I’ve made no mistakes.
I. Periods of confusion and inability to concentrate for about 2.5 weeks following the first SPECT.
Psychological.
A. Decreased sociability.Miscellaneous:
A. How would they know the experiment was successful or not? They may have monitored by internet usage patterns. Why would I say this? A trace route program I used (a programs that shows the servers on each stop along the way to a particular internet site) ,showed that all of my internet connections were routed through Fairfax , VA . This means that every web site that I went to was being routed through Fairfax, VA. (The techies at the ISP have no explanation for this, I used a small ISP affiliated with a city owned cable network called the Ashland Fiber Network ) Also, I could have called the office and complained about the side effects of the SPECT…Which I did about 9 months later. (I am not an AOL user by the way and I know they route everything from Fairfax.) Sometimes after going to Fairfax the route would then jump to Tulsa, OK, the school where Dr.Klindt
B. Dr. Amen is a former military doctor who mentored Dr. Klindt. Some of Amen’s colleagues are also military related.
C. Dr. Klindt provided research for the testing of Provigil, a drug originally designed by the military to keep soldiers awake.
D. He says that a SPECT is no more dangerous than an X–Ray as far as risks such as cancer are concerned. That is not true. That makes him a dishonest and unethical doctor.
E. Ceretec, the imaging tracer that was used, has a short half life and no known side effects besides cancer.
F. SPECT scans have never been shown to have side effects.
G. Dr. Klindt has the most advanced SPECT machine in the world and is the only doctor. in the United States who uses that model for clinical purposes.
Why me? Perhaps the shear multiplicity of symptoms I presented makes me easily discreditable should I make suit. Some symptoms were an exaggeration of previous symptoms I’ve had before. Thus it is arguable that I only perceived a difference in symptoms.How did I develop my theory that I was a guinea pig specifically for military related sleep research?
1. The symptoms described above
2. I recently asked Dr. Klindt’s secretary if he has ever sold his research. She insisted that she didn’t. However I pressed her again and she told me that he did provide his research and talents on a drug called Provigil. Through research on the internet I discovered that this drug was originally designed by the military establishment for the purposes of keeping soldiers awake.
3. This prompted me to research military establishment on the internet. While I was doing this research I discovered that the military establishment (by which I mean the DoD and its affiliates such as DARPA) are heavily researching ways to keep soldiers awake to enhance their on field performance.
4. I developed the theory after I was told he worked on Provigil, and the subsequent research on the internet. I think that makes my theory more credible.
I had already expressed to my mom my concerns about the change in sleep patterns among other thing. I did not present it to her as a conspiracy theory. Until I was told that Klindt did research on Provigil I did not theorizeIf you have intelligence regarding this matter.
Please contact me [xxx].
(Why am I including my personal information? Dr. Klindt is well aware of my efforts to expose his actions.)
Posted by pseudoname on May 31, 2006, at 8:30:58
In reply to Non-Consensual Research/SPECT, posted by Think1234 on May 31, 2006, at 6:03:29
Hi, Think. Welcome to Babble.
Some questions your story left me with. Sorry if it's too many all in a row.
1. How long did each SPECT scan take? How long were you actually in the machine?
2. Did the confusion and difficulty concentrating begin immediately after each scan or how long after? How long were those episodes and how much time was there without confusion between them?
3. What were the results of the scans? Did Klindt ask you to keep coming back to him or to stay in touch somehow?
4. Did you contact Klindt's office by computer or did they give you a CD about SPECT, for instance? Have you run an updated anti-spyware / -adware program on your computer lately? (Lavasoft, etc.) Have you checked for new files since April '05?
5. Were you on any meds at the time of the scans — and what? Did Klindt prescribe anything for you? Did he or his staff give you anything while you were there? Have you been on any meds since then? Who prescribed them? Have you mentioned any of these symptoms to your regular doctor?
Again, I apologize for so many questions. Thanks for sharing.
(Oops. One more!) How old are you?
Posted by ravenstorm on May 31, 2006, at 9:09:34
In reply to A few questions » Think1234, posted by pseudoname on May 31, 2006, at 8:30:58
Some of the symptoms you are describing are consistant with manic episodes or a psychotic break.
Are you under the care of a psychiatrist?
Posted by Think1234 on May 31, 2006, at 22:30:49
In reply to A few questions » Think1234, posted by pseudoname on May 31, 2006, at 8:30:58
Hi, Think. Welcome to Babble.
Some questions your story left me with. Sorry if it's too many all in a row.1. How long did each SPECT scan take? How long were you actually in the machine?
I was in the machine for 15 minutes each time.
2. Did the confusion and difficulty concentrating begin immediately after each scan or how long after? How long were those episodes and how much time was there without confusion between them?
I would say it began around 3 days. Its difficult to recall.
3. What were the results of the scans? Did Klindt ask you to keep coming back to him or to stay in touch somehow?
The scans were difficult to interpret because while he said many parts of my brain were 4 or 5 standard deviations fromt mean (this means Im 1 in 3 million for those parts of the brain). He says this is fairly routine with people with ADD. But the comparison group that he developed the Standard Deviations are actually "normals" people without pyschiatric problems. Thus the meaning of the Standard Deviation he provided was essentially meaningless. He therefore uses a severity chart rather than a Standard Deviation for the so called "Lay man". This was scaled at -4 to +4. +4 Means extremely high levels of blood perfusion. A -4 means extremely low levels of blood perfusion. In many parts of my brain their were both +4 and -4.On to the second part of your question
Thats an interesting question because it brings up the issue of how would they experiment on me without any follow up to know if the test was successful. Like I explain I think that internet routing and my own verbal complaints sufficed for this.
Also (since you are doing whats called "reality testing") as a reminder I did in fact explain to other people my change in sleep patterns before I discovered they tested provigil. So its not an artificial memory I developed after I discovered he was studying provigil. But that what made me recently develop my theory that its sleep specific research. Before then I was confused and had many theories including experimentation but also that I had an unusual reaction to the SPECT)
> 4. Did you contact Klindt's office by computer or did they give you a CD about SPECT, for instance? Have you run an updated anti-spyware / -adware program on your computer lately? (Lavasoft, etc.) Have you checked for new files since April '05? No. I use a Mac, so I used the school computers to look at the files. But I did receive a CD. If there was spyware I imagine it would so unique no process would keep it.
> 5. Were you on any meds at the time of the scans — and what?
No meds.
Did Klindt prescribe anything for you?
No prescriptions but recommendations to other Doctors to take Provigil and SSRI's He also suggested anti convulsants to supposedly equalize the over and under activity of my brain.
Did he or his staff give you anything while you were there? Yes they gave me a chocolate bar. After the first and second SPECT I doubt that has anything to do with his experiment though.Have you been on any meds since then?
Currently I take Klonopin for General Social Phobia.
Who prescribed them? A local doctor.Have you mentioned any of these symptoms to your regular doctor?
No. That probably would interfere with my treatment, unless you believe I'm crazy.
Again, I apologize for so many questions. Thanks for sharing.
Your questions are completely appropriate. They assess my sanity(so called "reality testing")(Oops. One more!) How old are you? Almost 26
Posted by Think1234 on May 31, 2006, at 22:57:48
In reply to Re: A few questions, posted by ravenstorm on May 31, 2006, at 9:09:34
Some of the symptoms you are describing are consistant with manic episodes or a psychotic break.
Are you under the care of a psychiatrist?I understand your concerns. Yes I am under the care of a psychiatrist. He gave me a drug called Klonopin about a month ago. Socially this drug has profoundly changed my life. I've turned from recluse to a very sociable person actively engaged in life and its responsibilities(the decreased anxiety makes the responsibilities of life more easy to deal with and seem less overwhelming.) I Will be working on a film this summer due to my increased connection with others. Other than my experience with Dr. Klindt I have no other "paranoid" or irrational beliefs. I don't have any of the other symptoms of Schizophrenia which is something I researched as I struggled comprehend what was happening to me. My experience did in fact lead me to question my sanity because being the subject of a non consensual experiment is not something that suppossed to happen linfe. And perhaps 99.99 percent (Who know what the real number is) of people who make such claims are probably in fact mentally ill. But, I believe my theory is most likely correct because it is coherant and reasonble. And I don't have others symptoms related to schizophrenia.
The fact of Non Consensual experimentations that violate medical ethics principles are officially recognized by a government sponsored Watch Dog group in britain. They estimate that it occurs about 15 times a year but strictly for medical research purposes rather than military. I don't know the name of the Watch Dog Group. (Perhaps they aren't an official watch dog group, I can't quite recall)
Have you heard of the noncensual testing of AIDS drugs on orphan children in NY which occured only a few years ago? That was front page news.
So it isn't beyond doctors to actually extremely unethical or to engage in nonconsensual research.I think Dr.Klindt believes what he is doing is right. We are in world with war and perhaps war will always be with us. So testing on a few humans is just collateral damage as far as the military is concerned. On the other hand I think deep down Dr.Klindt knows what he is doing is wrong. (Assuming Dr.Klindt knows about this. After all he himself doesn't maintain the machine.)
Posted by pseudoname on June 1, 2006, at 9:34:59
In reply to Re: A few questions » pseudoname, posted by Think1234 on May 31, 2006, at 22:30:49
Think,
I really appreciate you answering my many questions so thoroughly and quickly.
So very little separates us. With a few tiny changes in my life, I could be walking in your shoes.
From the original post and those additional details, I would agree that parts of the description seem to me consistent with psychosis.
It sounds like you have a lot of good things in your life that are important to you (school, film, family, etc). Maybe treatment can help keep symptoms from overwhelming those constructive, creative, loving parts of your life.
Good luck.
Posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 13:10:49
In reply to Thanks » Think1234, posted by pseudoname on June 1, 2006, at 9:34:59
The essential reason I am communicating to Dr. Bob's board. Is because I know that there are many intelligent people who read this board. Often Intelligent people know those who are in Intelligence or Ex -Intelligence. Within the past several weeks I have met an individual who is Ex-Military intelligence. And I've met another individual who knows quite a few people in Intelligence or Ex-Intelligence. (Before 5 weeks, ,when I began taking Klonopin, I knew very few people and now I know quite a few people, so based on recent experience it seems that the intelligence community is fairly large and many people know such people.)
Thus I would request that those who are familiar with such people distriibute the contents of my first post to as many people as possible. In order that justice might prevail.
Let me explain what my friend who was in ex-military intelligence was doing. He was creating Squids (Super Conducting Quantum Interference Devices. Very Sci- FI sounding) These devices detect electrical activities of all kinds but in the context of his research he was measuring the activitity of the electrical activitity of the brain. He was researching another device or devices (He did not tell me what they were) That are designed to manipulate the brains electrochemistry in order to effect a desired response. Of course his research was not on humans. They were mostly likely on chimps or Macque Monkeys.(If you are familiar brain research you would know that Macque monkeys are often researched because of their large Visual center is the best animal model for visual research, I know this because I've studied a Neurology textbook) I think it is reasonable suggest that the Military Establishment would go beyond Monkey research in order to determine whether their technologies work on humans.
Let me clarify from my first post on the meaning of "periods of
confusion." This simply means a profound inability to concentrate or focus accompanied with a strange and difficult to describe feeling. (This feeling is perhaps analagous to a bad reaction to to a psychiatric drug-its difficult to describe because its so unique. But its real and many people experience such reactions to psychiatric meds.)
Posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 13:35:54
In reply to Thanks » Think1234, posted by pseudoname on June 1, 2006, at 9:34:59
Think, Please tell me what symptoms I described suggest to you a diagnosis of psychosis.
Their is, may I note a certain irony in this situation. The more audacious any institution acts the less believable their acts become. Thus it sounds insanse for me to theorize on Dr. Klindts activities but the irony is that he nonetheless committed them. (Well to be honest it is only a theory, but I think with the evidence I provided, its a very good one.)
You may find that their are illogical holes in my story or that I jump to irrational conclusions. But just as teacher who is an expert in a subject might explain his/her subject poorly because he/she is so familiar with the subject that he/she assumes an understanding on the part of the student that they don't have. Because I have gone through this experience and am thus the "exper," I am a in a similar way a poor explainer to the "student."
So I thank you for your questions, and I would ask all those reading this post to please ask me as many questions as possible so that I can make clarifications.
" I really appreciate you answering my many questions so thoroughly and quickly.
So very little separates us. With a few tiny changes in my life, I could be walking in your shoes.From the original post and those additional details, I would agree that parts of the description seem to me consistent with psychosis.
It sounds like you have a lot of good things in your life that are important to you (school, film, family, etc). Maybe treatment can help keep symptoms from overwhelming those constructive, creative, loving parts of your life.
Good luck."
Posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 15:32:32
In reply to Re: Thanks » pseudoname, posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 13:35:54
To those who wish to contact me by snail mail.
I am going to be moving to a new address very soon.
The post office will be notified to forward, but there may be a lapse.
So If I don't respond to your mail it will be because I didn't receive it.
I will post the new address as soon as I can.
Posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 15:51:13
In reply to Change of Snail Mail Address, posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 15:32:32
Read all the follow up posts please. For reclarification and/or corrections from previous post. That way I can provide the whole picture. I have written a very long letter explaining my situation. But It is not complete in of itself. So please ask questions to clarify any misunderstandings.
Posted by pseudoname on June 1, 2006, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: Thanks » pseudoname, posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 13:35:54
> Please tell me what symptoms I described suggest to you a diagnosis of psychosis.
Think, you said 99.99% of people reporting something like you reported would be doing so from mental illness. I agree with that, and I guess I'm just going with statistical likelihood. I'm not in a position to make a judgment about you personally.
I appreciated talking with you. I apologize if I've said anything inappropriate. Best wishes.
Posted by Think1234 on June 2, 2006, at 17:26:02
In reply to Re: Thanks » Think1234, posted by pseudoname on June 1, 2006, at 17:00:58
Their is, may I note a certain irony in this situation. The more audacious any institution acts the less believable their acts become. Thus it sounds insanse for me to theorize on Dr. Klindts activities but the irony is that he nonetheless committed them. (Well to be honest it is only a theory, but I think with the evidence I provided, its a very good one.-was it a poor and rare reaction to ceretec?)
Think1234
[xxx]
Posted by Think1234 on June 2, 2006, at 18:02:17
In reply to Re: Thanks » pseudoname, posted by Think1234 on June 1, 2006, at 13:35:54
Based on this commentary, I would like to ask: Other than the "delusion" what symptoms did I present that are consistent with schizophrenia?
Diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia...A. Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):
(1) delusions- NO, Only YES If you don't believe my argument, then you can say I have this. With this alone I might be diagnosed with Schizophrenia assuming other physiological causes or Bipolar/Schizoaffective disorder isn't ruled out.
Note that I have only one "delusion" which is not common with schizophrenia.
(2) hallucinations. NO.(3) disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence) NO.
(4) grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior. NO
(5) negative symptoms, ,
a.affective flattening(ie-lack of emotion expression or experince) NO
b.alogia(Inability to speek)NO
c. avolition- (lack of desire or motivation) NONote: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
B. Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).
NO.
C. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).
NO. Unless you think believe my "one symptom" proves schizophrenia.
D. Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective Disorder and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out because either (1) no Major Depressive, Manic, or Mixed Episodes have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active and residual periods.
E. Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.
F. Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated).
This must be for the careful distinction between the autism/schizotypal disorder symptom overlap and schizophrenia. It is interesting that I did present symptoms of Autism to Dr.Klindt. But much of my social difficulties have changed rapidly and radically with the help of Klonopin.
Their is a faze that occurs often before the pyschotic breakdown. Where the individual experiences an intense awareness or sense of enlightenment. I had no such faze.
If I have had a psychotic breakdown, it seems odd that the breakdown would occur right after visiting Klindt's office and that the content of that psychosis would be so specific to my experience at Dr.Klindt's office.
Posted by llrrrpp on June 3, 2006, at 13:34:43
In reply to Non-Consensual Research/SPECT, posted by Think1234 on May 31, 2006, at 6:03:29
Hi Think,
I'm glad that you're getting treatment from a psychiatrist, and that you've been taking your medicines as directed. This is very good. You must tell your treatment team about your concerns about this SPECT procedure. Please bring them all of the documentation that you can, and let them help you put the pieces together.I'm not sure whether you were or were not part of a non-consensual research program. It would be pretty unusual, however.
I am qualified to say that a lot of "non-invasive" medical procedures, like SPECT, may have side effects that are not well-reported, well-studied, or well-understood
I used to perform research studies (with consent forms and everything!) using MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) of the brain. I also participated in several studies myself. Part of working around an MRI machine involves exposing yourself to strong magnetic fields (3Tesla, in my case) and pulses of radio waves. Now, there is currently no literature which says that MRI's are harmful, but General Electric has a warning for technicians and radiologists that patients should not hold their hands in the scanner. To do so might create a circuit which would allow for unpleasant tingling sensations "peripheral nerve stimulation". Also, the pulses of radio waves and the magnetic fields raise the temperature of the brain slightly (kind of like being in a microwave) is this healthy? well, probably not, but it also hasn't been proven to be unhealthy. I also experienced a dizzy sensation when I was in the scanner. It felt like my head was spinning. Exactly like the vertigo I got when my otolith dislodged in my semicircular canal last year. Very unpleasant vertigo which stopped when I got out of the bore of the magnet.
I am not aware of any cognitive or emotional or physical symptoms once I left the magnetic field.
If you believe that SPECT contributed to your symptoms, you should speak with your doctors about it. regardless of whether you were in a research study or not, you may have experienced side effects from this procedure that fall under the category of "adverse events". Such effects need to be documented to educate the medical field, and ultimately to help give patients the most information possible when they decide whether to undergo a procedure or not.
hope this helps, good luck with everything
-ll
Posted by Think1234 on June 3, 2006, at 15:04:15
In reply to Re: Non-Consensual Research/SPECT » Think1234, posted by llrrrpp on June 3, 2006, at 13:34:43
You are right. I think that it is very possible that an unusual symptom reaction to the SPECT scan occured. While I've researched the internet on SPECTS and Ceretec the tracer that was used I could find no information that suggested side effect- but that doesn't mean that such information does not exist. I have told doctor Klindt and his secretary about this possibility. But I have gotten no response whatsoever from them on that matter. The most obvious indication that my reaction was not psychiatric or pyschotic is that I experienced double vision very soon after the SPECT while at the same time I was experiencing many other symptoms. I believe the double vision was no coincidence.
> Hi Think,
> I'm glad that you're getting treatment from a psychiatrist, and that you've been taking your medicines as directed. This is very good. You must tell your treatment team about your concerns about this SPECT procedure. Please bring them all of the documentation that you can, and let them help you put the pieces together.
>
> I'm not sure whether you were or were not part of a non-consensual research program. It would be pretty unusual, however.
>
> I am qualified to say that a lot of "non-invasive" medical procedures, like SPECT, may have side effects that are not well-reported, well-studied, or well-understood
>
> I used to perform research studies (with consent forms and everything!) using MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) of the brain. I also participated in several studies myself. Part of working around an MRI machine involves exposing yourself to strong magnetic fields (3Tesla, in my case) and pulses of radio waves. Now, there is currently no literature which says that MRI's are harmful, but General Electric has a warning for technicians and radiologists that patients should not hold their hands in the scanner. To do so might create a circuit which would allow for unpleasant tingling sensations "peripheral nerve stimulation". Also, the pulses of radio waves and the magnetic fields raise the temperature of the brain slightly (kind of like being in a microwave) is this healthy? well, probably not, but it also hasn't been proven to be unhealthy. I also experienced a dizzy sensation when I was in the scanner. It felt like my head was spinning. Exactly like the vertigo I got when my otolith dislodged in my semicircular canal last year. Very unpleasant vertigo which stopped when I got out of the bore of the magnet.
>
> I am not aware of any cognitive or emotional or physical symptoms once I left the magnetic field.
>
> If you believe that SPECT contributed to your symptoms, you should speak with your doctors about it. regardless of whether you were in a research study or not, you may have experienced side effects from this procedure that fall under the category of "adverse events". Such effects need to be documented to educate the medical field, and ultimately to help give patients the most information possible when they decide whether to undergo a procedure or not.
>
> hope this helps, good luck with everything
> -ll
Posted by Think1234 on June 3, 2006, at 15:24:52
In reply to Re: Non-Consensual Research/SPECT » Think1234, posted by llrrrpp on June 3, 2006, at 13:34:43
I think the most obvious indication that my reaction to the SPECT scan was non-psychiatric and non-psychotic was the fact that I experienced double vision that eventually required prescription glasses to correct the double vision. So I did not experience double vision with the glasses, which might rule out a specifically Central Nervous System causality.
(to the ultratechnical, yes I know the retina is technically considerered part of the CNS).
While reading I would very often (1 out of 3 times) see the letters in double. I would not experience double vision at a long distance. During the vision test given by an optometrist I did report double vision at a long distance under the particular conditions of the test.
Recently, at least for the last 2-3 weeks since, I've broke my glasses. And therefor can't use them, I have not experienced double vision. So it seems, at least by what i've experinced so far, that whatever was causing the double vision to occur has healed itself.
Is anyone familiar with the subject of double vision correcting itself? Is that unusual?
Has anyone heard of double vision as a result of SPECT or PET scans?
Posted by Caedmon on June 4, 2006, at 13:44:30
In reply to Re: Non-Consensual Research/SPECT » Think1234, posted by llrrrpp on June 3, 2006, at 13:34:43
I agree with the recommendation to follow up your concerns with a psychiatrist. If you are worried about the double vision, etc then a neurologist could help with that. Bring in the documentation and evidence you have on hand.
My psychiatrist was actually very helpful to me recently in sorting out a legal matter that was related to mental health. Obviously he couldn't advise me in a legal capacity, the way an attorney would, but he did help counsel me and tell me what to expect, and that was very helpful to me. I might recommend the same in your instance.
- Chris
Posted by Think1234 on June 4, 2006, at 14:35:33
In reply to Re: Non-Consensual Research/SPECT, posted by Caedmon on June 4, 2006, at 13:44:30
I am actually going to see a neurologist very soon. I will tell him about my symptoms with emphasis on the double vision I experienced. I don't know what you mean by documentation? I can give him a list of symptoms that occured after the SPECT scan. I can give him a release of information from my optometrist.
I have been making assumptions about my experience with Dr. Klindt's office that may be untrue. It is perhaps the makers of Ceretec(the imaging tracer) or the SPECT machine manufacturers themselves who are withholding their knowledge of the side effect of their chemicals/machines."I agree with the recommendation to follow up your concerns with a psychiatrist. If you are worried about the double vision, etc then a neurologist could help with that. Bring in the documentation and evidence you have on hand.
My psychiatrist was actually very helpful to me recently in sorting out a legal matter that was related to mental health. Obviously he couldn't advise me in a legal capacity, the way an attorney would, but he did help counsel me and tell me what to expect, and that was very helpful to me. I might recommend the same in your instance."
Posted by Think1234 on June 5, 2006, at 12:20:32
In reply to Re: Non-Consensual Research/SPECT, posted by Caedmon on June 4, 2006, at 13:44:30
There one other interesting detail which I did not include in my original message. I was told not to consume caffeine a day before and during the day of the test.
It is not unusual for a SPECT/PET scan physician to recommend not taking caffeine. Because caffeine acts as a stimulant which changes the perfusion levels and caffeine restricts blood flow. But its not uncommon to not give such advice.
What is unusual is the extreme response I had to caffeine on the day after my after SPECT meeting with Dr.Klindt, which was as I recall a 2 days after the second SPECT exam.
The day before the test I deliberately deprived myself of sleep and then took caffeine later in the day to keep me up. I find sleep deprivation has three effects for me. 1.It makes me more talkative. 2. It helps with my dysthymia 3. It makes me more creative and responsive to art.
Sleep deprivation only works for me if I don't over do it.
I over did the sleep deprivation the day of the test and as a result I was to tired to be talkative or have a decent interview.But to the point... I took 7 shots of starbucks coffee on that day to keep me. Up I've done extreme caffeine shots (up to 11) on a rare occasion in the past when I was extremely tired. It makes me jittery and somewhat talkative but it did nothing on a deeper level than that.
However when I took this high dose of caffeine on the day of the SPECT scan result overview with Dr.Klindt, my reaction to the caffeine was much more extreme and qualitatively different. The reaction is difficult to explain , but I will try my best.
The Reaction.
1. Thoughts racing extremely fast.
2. Intense anxiety which I felt might develop into a panic attack.
3. Mild distortion in perception(analagous to the effects of marijuana.- I don't smoke that stuff anymore) By this I mean spaces which appeared larger now appeared somewhat smaller and/or items appeared somewhat bigger.
4. Increased creativity. (I believe sleep deprivation can only partially explain this response) I was wrote a couple poems during the experience.
5. It difficult to explain the overall effect.So this is yet another odd effect that occured to me after taking the SPECT scan.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 5, 2006, at 20:06:36
In reply to Dangers of Caffeine and Ceretec tracer? SPECT/PET, posted by Think1234 on June 5, 2006, at 12:20:32
I am not sure you can attribute the SPECT for your reaction to sleep deprivation and that much caffeine. Both of those are extreme conditions for your body and confound any conclusions you might make from the SPECT experience, imo.
gg
Posted by Think1234 on June 8, 2006, at 21:37:11
In reply to Re: A few questions, posted by ravenstorm on May 31, 2006, at 9:09:34
Does the speculation as I have described in the first post in this thread make me psychotic? In all honesty it is a theory. I can't prove it. And I rely solely on circumstantial evidence. But, I think it is the type of circumstantial evidence that might convict an innocent person if the central accussation was not so strange.
Other speculations have occured to me. The main two other speculations are: 1. I had a rare reaction to the spect scan. 2. I am either crazy, mildly crazy, overimaginative, etc.
Either way, something happened to me. And it happened to me soon after the SPECT scan. What has happened to me has affected many aspects of my life. My vision for instance(double vision in both eyes simultantaneously), and in particular, it has affected me academically. Especially as it pertains to my major which is Economics. ("mixing up words" was one of the "things" that happened to me. Since carefully and subtly worded questions and problems are part of the pedagogy of econ, my tendency to mix words has been a disadavantage. ( On a side note: I got the highest score on my last exam and was one of 4 in about 35 students who got a full A (not an A-) But I believe I could have done even better if it weren't for the cognitive deficits I still continue to experience)
Other note: Other than the cognitive deficiencies I continue to experience, I have had no other sense that anything was or is different about me. I have felt no oddness. Or dreaminess, or anything of the sort.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.