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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Crazy Horse on June 1, 2006, at 17:41:48
I'm going to my pdoc tomorrow and would like a long list of meds used for insomnia so i can shove it in his face. :) Please keep in mind that Lunesta and ambien do not work for me. He's (my pdoc)is too damn conservative and for my Parnate insomnia was only willing to use Trazodone, which worked for awhile but i had to keep raising the dose and eventually it didn't work at all. I'll be on EMSAM in about 2 wks, and my biggest concern is "possible" insomnia...i want to be prepared in case i do get this side effect so i don't end up going through the same insomnia hell i went through w/Parnate. And this time i am going to insist we be more agressive in treating it if it occurs..NO TRAZODONE! If he won't budge, i'll look for a new pdoc. Thank you for your contributions.
Monte
Posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 17:53:34
In reply to Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by Crazy Horse on June 1, 2006, at 17:41:48
Resotril works for me. Ambien did for a while then quit. Haven't tried Lunseta. It has been suggested to me to try "Sleep 'n' Restore" sold at the health food store, an herb mix (sorry, wrong board) and supposedly works wonders for sleep with no morning grogginess. Voila
blessings
mary
Posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2006, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 17:53:34
Monte Robert David does well on Klonopin. I still like valium. They are both long acting benzos. Oh and somewhere I read that they are using chloral hydrate with EMSAM . I took it when I quit drinking and it really works. Just don't drink on it it is then a Mickey Finn. Good luck E-mail what he says. Love Phillipa
Posted by Caedmon on June 1, 2006, at 23:01:06
In reply to Re: Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2006, at 21:42:25
A sufficient dose of phenobarbital ALWAYS knocks me out. Probably not a good long-term method though.
Have you tried Seroquel?
- Chris
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 2, 2006, at 0:58:28
In reply to Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by Crazy Horse on June 1, 2006, at 17:41:48
Seroquel alone will make you sleep like Rip Van Winkle. The only problem I have ever heard on here is when people take Seroquel with some meds that dont mix well. I take it with Paxil and sleep. Even when I was raging with anxiety and couldn't calm down, 25mg of Seroquel KO'd me.
Posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 9:19:22
In reply to Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by Crazy Horse on June 1, 2006, at 17:41:48
Welcome back! I was just wondering the other day where you had gone to...
Posted by Crazy Horse on June 2, 2006, at 11:58:18
In reply to Re: Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 9:19:22
> Welcome back! I was just wondering the other day where you had gone to...
Thanks, yea i haven't been feeling well the last month or so, so i haven't felt like posting. Parnate side effects got the best of me...so i tapered off parnate and will be starting EMSAM in about 10 days. I'm glad at least one person thought about me. :) Hope you are doing well.
Monte
Posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 13:01:05
In reply to Re: Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia » bassman, posted by Crazy Horse on June 2, 2006, at 11:58:18
Actually, I'm doing $hitty, but thanks. Sorry the MAOI didn't work out that well...it's funny, seems like this whole board was buzzing about that alternative and how is was underused and the dietary restrictions weren't that bad, etc. and then people started having problems. People aren't jumping for joy over EMSAM, looks like, which is really too bad. Some docs report that patients on MAOI's tell them they feel the best they ever have. I was hoping that would work out with EMSAM for the folks like me that couldn't live without one of the forbidden foods.
Posted by Paulbwell on June 3, 2006, at 0:33:45
In reply to Plz. tell me what works best for your insomnia, posted by Crazy Horse on June 1, 2006, at 17:41:48
> I'm going to my pdoc tomorrow and would like a long list of meds used for insomnia so i can shove it in his face. :) Please keep in mind that Lunesta and ambien do not work for me. He's (my pdoc)is too damn conservative and for my Parnate insomnia was only willing to use Trazodone, which worked for awhile but i had to keep raising the dose and eventually it didn't work at all. I'll be on EMSAM in about 2 wks, and my biggest concern is "possible" insomnia...i want to be prepared in case i do get this side effect so i don't end up going through the same insomnia hell i went through w/Parnate. And this time i am going to insist we be more agressive in treating it if it occurs..NO TRAZODONE! If he won't budge, i'll look for a new pdoc. Thank you for your contributions.
>
> MonteHi Ya!
I have taken
-Clonazepam .125mgs-10mgs
-Xanax .125-2mgs
-Diazepam 1mg-100mgs
Zopliclone Half 7.5-2 tabs.When the sh*t hits the fan, and i NEED sleep, (and being unlucky enought to be a USA person-like AME SANS VIE-who gets Seconal+tuinal-YER you will sleep)I find a couple shots of Vodka+2-3 5mg Valiums does the trick.
NO FLAMES PLEASE-these are low and safe Ethonal+Benzo combos, and work together.
Cheers
Posted by tepiaca on June 4, 2006, at 0:08:32
In reply to Re Seroquel, posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 2, 2006, at 0:58:28
> Seroquel alone will make you sleep like Rip Van Winkle. The only problem I have ever heard on here is when people take Seroquel with some meds that dont mix well. I take it with Paxil and sleep. Even when I was raging with anxiety and couldn't calm down, 25mg of Seroquel KO'd me.
I say Seroquel too , no other med has helped me more for my Nardil insomnia. Nor Benzos nor ambien.
Seroquel kicks Nardil insomnia very fast with only 25mgs.
The problems is that is an AP rigth?Tepi
Posted by Paulbwell on June 4, 2006, at 1:14:30
In reply to Re: Re Seroquel, posted by tepiaca on June 4, 2006, at 0:08:32
> > Seroquel alone will make you sleep like Rip Van Winkle. The only problem I have ever heard on here is when people take Seroquel with some meds that dont mix well. I take it with Paxil and sleep. Even when I was raging with anxiety and couldn't calm down, 25mg of Seroquel KO'd me.
>
> I say Seroquel too , no other med has helped me more for my Nardil insomnia. Nor Benzos nor ambien.
> Seroquel kicks Nardil insomnia very fast with only 25mgs.
> The problems is that is an AP rigth?
>
> TepiYES the stigma of being FIRST having in yr records being given an ANTI PSYCOTIC, then picking up the damn pills from the dopestore.
I have had Seroqual suggested 2me as a sleeping remedy, taking an anti-psychotic is heady stuff, but these compounds seem to b pushed for everything now like Prozac 10 years ago,Valium 30 years ago, Barbiturates 50 years ago, Opiates, 100 years ago.
See the pattern here?. I'm not saying APs are bad 4 insomnia-hell if they turn off your psychic pain-GREAT, sometimes APs ARE THE ONLY THING TO WORK. Good Ol' boy Johnny Cash would take Thorazine when he had been up 4 days n couldn't sleep-(due to taking to many Dexedrine tabs, admitadily)
Thanks
Posted by llrrrpp on June 4, 2006, at 1:24:01
In reply to Re: Re Seroquel » tepiaca, posted by Paulbwell on June 4, 2006, at 1:14:30
Fortunately, seroquel is also approved for use in treatment of bipolar, so perhaps you can get rid of the stigma of having to take a "next-generation" anti-psychotic to help you cope with insomnia.
I take seroquel 25 mg. Actually, I just took it about 10 minutes ago. I already feel woozy!
And this is after 16 oz coffee at 5 pm, and diet pepsi at 730 pm.
I was super wide awake about 20 minutes ago. now. I will pass out in no time
pdoc prescribed me because I had insomnia due to anxiety and MDD. I take 25 or 50 mg. I also take cymbalta 60 mg. I took that at about 10 pm. It doesn't make me sleepy. Actually, it might be slightly activating. pdoc disputes this, but I'm thinking that it may be the case
gotta go. brush my teeth and get me to bed before I fall asleep on the comptuer keybord
--ll
Posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 15:23:23
In reply to Re Seroquel, posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 2, 2006, at 0:58:28
> Seroquel alone will make you sleep like Rip Van Winkle. The only problem I have ever heard on here is when people take Seroquel with some meds that dont mix well. I take it with Paxil and sleep. Even when I was raging with anxiety and couldn't calm down, 25mg of Seroquel KO'd me.
>It's true. I had the worst insomnia ever, took Seroquel (not psychotic/manic) and it really helps. First night, sorta had light sleep, but body adjusted well after that.
I think I was on a low dose also, 50mg. If it doesn't work, u can go up and up. It's a really hi-tech atypical-- like Abilify, only with the benefit of letting you get the sleep you deserve if you've got insomnia.
I don't have insomnia anymore, although I found hypnosis to be most effective by far for long-term...
Just make sure you're treating yourself well, diet, exercise, and med-wise (insomnia is almost always an indicator of depression/anxiety, so taking an antidepressant/adjusting your meds is helpful long-term)
But, important thing is to also exercise... doing something you enjoy... I ride my bike everyday, for an hour or two. Nothing is more potent for compressing and enhancing the efficiency of your sleep than real exercise.
Best part is, as long as you pick exercise you enjoy, it becomes a habit to the point you find yourself hard not to get out of after awhile. =)
Posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 15:30:15
In reply to Insomnia cure?=Vodka+10mgs Valium:) » Crazy Horse, posted by Paulbwell on June 3, 2006, at 0:33:45
I don't care how effective any med is, or what dose is being taken--
meds only go half way.
Cogntive Behavorial Therapy determines whether a med "works" or not, not that most want to hear the reality.
If treating insomnia was as simple as popping a certain med at a certain dose, without any changes to your lifestyle, it would be fantastic.
The reality is, there will be some med, at some dose, that will basically make you pass out enough to force you into sleep.
The big question: do you want to let your body's insomnia be a message for you to alter the big picture, and reduce your stress levels/anxiety/depression, or do you want to obsess over the insomnia?
Insomnia is basically a self-fulfilling prophecy...
if you obsess over it enough, pretty much nothing less than meds that will make you pass out for 8 hours (I'm sorry, "reduce sleep onset").
There's two treatments to insomnia:
1) Treating it responsibly
2) Pretending like you need to be passed out.
No one's saying doctors won't help either option, but, it's really up to you in the end.
Posted by ed_uk on June 4, 2006, at 15:44:55
In reply to Re: Re Seroquel » tepiaca, posted by Paulbwell on June 4, 2006, at 1:14:30
Hi P
Antipsychotics are not the only meds to be stigmatised. Conventional sleeping pills are stigmatised too :(
Ed
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2006, at 16:19:47
In reply to Re: Insomnia cure?=Vodka+10mgs Valium:), posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 15:30:15
> I don't care how effective any med is, or what dose is being taken--
>
> meds only go half way.That assumes that there is somewhere that one needs to go.
> Cogntive Behavorial Therapy determines whether a med "works" or not,
CBT can help one in dealing with psychological issues. Not everyone with mental illness has psychological issues.
> not that most want to hear the reality.
I am quite certain of my reality, thank you.
- Scott
Posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 16:38:06
In reply to Re: Insomnia cure?=Vodka+10mgs Valium:), posted by SLS on June 4, 2006, at 16:19:47
> > Cogntive Behavorial Therapy determines whether >>a med "works" or not,
>your response:
> CBT can help one in dealing with psychological issues. Not everyone with mental illness has psychological issues.
>Re-read back your post.
No one here is trying to talk down to anyone.
Unfortunately, it's difficult on the Internet to understand how the heck anyone's talking in general.
Moreover, because of the nature of all of us here to be incredibly sensitive human beings (thank god) we sometimes misinterpret what other people are intending to say, or how someone is coming across to us.
Mental illness tends to involve the realm of the psychological.
I'm not sure what your post is trying to say, but I think you meant to say something else.
anyhow, I wish you the best of luck, regardless of anything.
and as far as CBT goes: not everyone needs it. Some people with meds do indeed find help with meds alone.
But, if their meds aren't working, it sometimes helps to kick it up a notch. CBT is that notch.
And wherever you're going, I hope it's up.
We are all going somewhere. Wherever it is, it's ultimately beyond ourselves, and largely incomprehensible.
But to think insomnia is not a psychological problem is to suggest insomnia is not a problem, or that the human mind is not involved, and therefore, meds do not need to be used, let alone CBT.
I don't have insomnia... but, I'll defend insomnia for a second here: sleeping is a solution to insomnia, and by that, insomnia is naturally a problem worthy of resolution. =)
I'm still not sure what your comments were intended to convey, but I thought I'd just get these random notes out there... take care
/utopizen
Posted by bassman on June 4, 2006, at 17:05:10
In reply to Re: Insomnia cure?=Vodka+10mgs Valium:), posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 15:30:15
This e-mail comes across as though all mental health problems have, as their basis, a (situational) psychological basis that is best treated by CBT-and in fact not to use CBT is just to take drugs and not be acting responsibily. Wow.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 4, 2006, at 18:08:06
In reply to Re: Insomnia cure?=Vodka+10mgs Valium:), posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 15:30:15
CBT can work to help a person develop better sleep hygiene, to teach relaxation and thought stopping skills, to develop a sleep schedule for coping with circadian rhythym (sp?) shifts and to address maladaptive cognitions related to sleep.
Like all therapies, it doesn't work for all folks all the time. But it can help.
gg
Posted by Paulbwell on June 4, 2006, at 23:07:04
In reply to Re: Insomnia cure?=Vodka+10mgs Valium:), posted by utopizen on June 4, 2006, at 15:30:15
"Insomnia is basically a self-fulfilling prophecy...
"HiYa Uto..
HTF can you say this?-I'm sure you have had trouble sleeping after takeing more, adjusting to your Desoxyn~(only the most effective stay-awake grug there is-bar none!!)
I use substances for my benefit:
Whether Ritalin for attention,
Valium (well cause i'm psychically dependant upon em')
Alcohol, if a quqntity helps me sleep.I think it's wise to use any substance, ONLY if it provides benefits, and helps you to keep-up with daily functioning.
Cheers
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2006, at 2:34:37
In reply to CBT had been shown to be effective with insomnia, posted by gardenergirl on June 4, 2006, at 18:08:06
> CBT can work to help a person develop better sleep hygiene...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding CBT to Psycho-Babble Psychology. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20060604/msgs/655132.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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