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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by BrianBoru on May 23, 2006, at 20:23:10
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
By all means, if you don't want to take the anti-psychotic, don't. They are the most destructive of the psychiatric drugs. Just say no to psychotropic drugs !
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 21:00:39
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by BrianBoru on May 23, 2006, at 20:23:10
Brian don't worry I'm taking the Geodon no way!!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by Maximus on May 23, 2006, at 23:52:12
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
> I saw the pdoc today and now he wants me to take the luvox l50mg and the valium 20mg and then add lamictal starting at 25mg and working up over 5weeks, pluse 80mg of Geodon. I don't want to take an antipsychotic what should I do? Love Phillipa
Hi,
I think you really need them. Give them a try. You have nothing to lose.
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 0:00:37
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » Phillipa, posted by Maximus on May 23, 2006, at 23:52:12
Maximus why do I need Geodon? It's an atypical antipsychotic and I'm not psychotic. I can see the lamictal but I could get TD with geodon. So I'm not taking it Love Phillipa
Posted by Maximus on May 24, 2006, at 1:01:18
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » Maximus, posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 0:00:37
> Maximus why do I need Geodon? It's an atypical antipsychotic and I'm not psychotic. I can see the lamictal but I could get TD with geodon. So I'm not taking it Love Phillipa
I know you're not psychotic, but this cocktail could treat "all your symptoms" at once. Firt, i would go with a lower dose of Geodon. I find your pdoc very clever. No joke. He has his reasons to proceed like this. He knows you much better than we do, for sure.
Between you and me, you have nothing to lose. Isn'it? I'm sure you're able to trust your pdoc and be confident in your treatment. You might be surprised. Go slowly but surely. Keep us informed.
The decision belongs to you...
And... with all due respect for this board, keep always in mind that the FEAR is king here. Good luck.
Posted by valene on May 24, 2006, at 7:48:43
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
Phillipa,
I agree - I would *not* take an antipsychotic. Plus adding two more drugs at once puts up flag - not a good idea IMO.
Have you given up on trying EMSAM? You had said your pdoc would prescribe it for you. Love, Val
> I saw the pdoc today and now he wants me to take the luvox l50mg and the valium 20mg and then add lamictal starting at 25mg and working up over 5weeks, pluse 80mg of Geodon. I don't want to take an antipsychotic what should I do? Love Phillipa
Posted by B2chica on May 24, 2006, at 11:05:21
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » Phillipa, posted by Maximus on May 24, 2006, at 1:01:18
i don't know if your 'psychotic' or not, but there are certain reasons docs choose anti-psychotics, it doesn't necessarily mean your psychotic. but that doesn't mean you should blindly listen to him. if your scared of it TELL him/her. let them know you are REALLY hesitant, tell him why you are hesitant but ask them why they choose that drug for you? what symptoms do they think it will help and why.
but, i do agree with the others about the 'all at once'. i think the mixture and all at once is too much. if you get side effects you won't know what they're from and will have to stop all of them which could make things worse.
TELL him this. let him know that if you are willing to try some new meds/dosages that you will but you want to start slowly and one at a time.
my docs real big on this. it's important to see what works, how quickly and what sideeffects and that's hard to do if you mess with multiple new additions and dosage changes at the same time.i lik to keep something in mind when i go see any doctor. 1) they are a doctor for a reason, they did get the training and do have the clinical experience 2)however, they could have just as easily been a C student as an A student, we just don't know.
so i guess what i'm saying is trust a little but don't ignore your instinct. and if you ask questions and they refuse to discuss it with you RUN don't walk to the next doctor.best wishes dear Phillipa
b2c.
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 24, 2006, at 11:32:05
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
> I saw the pdoc today and now he wants me to take the luvox l50mg and the valium 20mg and then add lamictal starting at 25mg and working up over 5weeks, pluse 80mg of Geodon. I don't want to take an antipsychotic what should I do? Love Phillipa
Hey Sweetheart,
I say do what the Doctor recommends. Jan, he is the one who really knows the depth and severity of your illness. People here mean well, however it is my opinion that telling you to not take your meds as directed by your Doc is not only irresponsible, but also very dangerous! 10 different people "playing Doctor" telling you what to do is absurd...listen to the real Doctor who really knows what is going on with you. If you try the cocktail he has prescribed and you don't like the way it makes you feel, simply stop taking it and contact your Pdoc immediately. To not try something in the condition you are in, is going to keep you in that same condition indefinitely...and i don't think you want that. Try to trust your Pdoc, and if you don't, it's time to find a new one. I wish you only the best my friend.
Love, Monte
Posted by B2chica on May 24, 2006, at 11:39:06
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » Phillipa, posted by Crazy Horse on May 24, 2006, at 11:32:05
>>10 different people "playing Doctor" telling you what to do is absurd...listen to the real Doctor who really knows what is going on with you.
>>If you try the cocktail he has prescribed and you don't like the way it makes you feel, simply stop taking it and contact your Pdoc immediately.contradicting statements aren't they???
not trying to be mean...just an observation.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 24, 2006, at 12:43:46
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
Hey PJ!!
Well, I'm not sure really what to recommend - I don't have personal experience with any of the meds!!
But have you got worse since your arm broke? If so, do you think that its because you've stopped jopping (if you have?) I don't know. I've read that stopping frequent aerobic exercise can lead to depressive syptoms.
Anyway sorry I can't be of any more help, but I'm definately here to wish you well and support you!!
But anyway, my mother in law takes valium, celexa, and zyprexa for severe anxiety issues.
Maybe just try the lactimal?
Anyway kind regards
Meri
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 24, 2006, at 14:01:56
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by B2chica on May 24, 2006, at 11:39:06
> >>10 different people "playing Doctor" telling you what to do is absurd...listen to the real Doctor who really knows what is going on with you.
> >>If you try the cocktail he has prescribed and you don't like the way it makes you feel, simply stop taking it and contact your Pdoc immediately.
>
> contradicting statements aren't they???
> not trying to be mean...just an observation.
>Whatever B2Chica...or is that Dr. B2chica??? Wow, you are so impressive i just have to believe you must be a Doctor...just an observation.
Posted by B2chica on May 24, 2006, at 14:56:14
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Crazy Horse on May 24, 2006, at 14:01:56
i'm sorry if you are sensitive to my reply. i said i wasn't trying to be mean. my point was that you were being a little hard on everyone here saying they were 'playing doctor' when they were just giving their advice. that is the point of this board. i don't advocate 'playing' with your meds without physician assistance.
but that was my point. you mentioned that we were 'playing doctor' with our advice, however then you mentioned that if she didn't like the way it makes her feel she should just stop. this action could have harmful effects as well.
she should actually contact her doc immediately and seek professional advice as to how and when to stop.i am not a doctor nor do i play one on TV. and i certainly don't pretend to be one here.
i do not expect a reply from you, nor shall i reply further. if you do choose to reply, please try to be civil. i'm not trying to start an argument.b2c
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 24, 2006, at 17:40:27
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » Crazy Horse, posted by B2chica on May 24, 2006, at 14:56:14
You just hit a nerve i guess. I know Phillipa well and want what is best for her. My opinion is people who tell her not to listen to her Doc are saying they know better than her Doc. Only he really knows ( at least this is my hope) what meds may help her particular illness. We at PB cannot properly evaluate and diagnose someone simply by what we are told via internet communication...there may be a lot more going on than we are aware of, which is exactly why i suggested that she should comply with her pdocs instructions. Saying to stop taking the meds if she has a bad reaction may not of been the right thing to tell her, really what i was trying to point out was if it doesn't help or makes things worse, simply quit taking the meds...and you are right, call the Doc first. Some people are very vulnerable and impressionable to the point where the wrong advice to ignore there docs orders could be the difference from staying very ill or perhaps making a full or partial recovery.
Monte
Posted by Sobriquet Style on May 24, 2006, at 18:11:20
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
I wouldn't think its a good idea to start 2 different medications at the *same* time, otherwise you won't know which one is causing what side effects, and whether either one is working or not. Did your doc mention starting them all at once together?
Other than that, maybe an anipsychotic is what you truely need. Thats what that doctor suggested, if you don't try it, you'll never know. Perhaps you should follow his instructions and if it doesn't work, then knowledge is power as they say, to keep trying until something does work.
The Lamital stands a high chance of lifting your mood, its very good at that. It *may* increase anxiety at first, (it may not) but you have valium ~ I think.
Other than that, work with your doctor. Tiral and error until success. :)
~
Posted by madeline on May 24, 2006, at 18:21:33
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » B2chica, posted by Crazy Horse on May 24, 2006, at 17:40:27
In my opinion, you should have never left the office if your weren't absolutely sure why he was prescribing the medication and what side effects you should expect.
Crazyhorse is exactly right, PB is not a forum filled with physicians.
Just call him and if he isn't responsive, then find another pdoc.
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 18:31:08
In reply to Phillipa just call your pdoc., posted by madeline on May 24, 2006, at 18:21:33
To all of you wonderful people I have been trying all day to find a new pdoc but there are a limited number of them that are taking new patients or take medicaire. And I heard that if you say you will pay out of pocket they still won't take you. A PHD wanted on for Mother and even she couldn't get one for self pay. My decision as of now. No antipsychotic. I will raise the luvox starting from the l00mg to l25mg I did this last night. And then when I am used to that add what dose blueberry suggested of the lamictal l2.5mg. And pray he keeps prescribing the valium. After 30years you just can't go off them. And I agree with most of you who ever heard of adding three things at once you wouldn't know what was causing what. And my other option not good is to try and contact my old pdoc 4 hours away and see if she will prescribe the valium for me.She knows me and said I'm not psychotic I asked her once. This doc said he's leaning toward a diagnosis of bipolar. Don't know which one as I never feel high or even good. Love Phillipa
Posted by madeline on May 24, 2006, at 18:40:27
In reply to Re: Phillipa just call your pdoc. » madeline, posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 18:31:08
Sounds like a reasonable plan, but I would still contact your current pdoc and let him know what you have decided to do.
Be well
Maddie
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 18:43:02
In reply to Re: Phillipa just call your pdoc., posted by madeline on May 24, 2006, at 18:40:27
Since he doesn't talk to his patients on the phone I left a voice mail with his Rn. You can't talk to a real person anymore. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jost on May 24, 2006, at 19:43:30
In reply to Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2006, at 17:14:38
I do think PDocs sometimes prescribe anti-psychotics for people who aren't psychotic. Are you seeing a therapist? If so, perhaps this doctor sees Geodon as a temporary measure, to help for a period of sorting through issues. At least, that would make sense to me.
However, as Monte says, you need to trust your doctor's opinion, because we can't know enough to give you really informed judgments.
Maybe there's a doctor in a community near yours, if you don't feel comfortable with this one?
Is the Luvox a drug you just started? You had said you''ve had trouble with SSRI's. Has luvox caused fewer side-effects so far than others?
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 19:48:52
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Jost on May 24, 2006, at 19:43:30
Jost no I've taken low dose luvox for a long time and it's the only one I seem to be able to tolerate. l0yrs ago it worked for me at 250mg. Then it stopped so more AD's About a year since I've been back on the low from 25=50mg. Love Phillipa
Posted by Maximus on May 24, 2006, at 20:18:46
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do? » Jost, posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2006, at 19:48:52
It's a shame that Crazy horse and i have been the only ones to suggest to be compliant with her pdoc. No wonder why so much people here become resistant to treatment.
Wishing all the best to Philippa.
Posted by madeline on May 24, 2006, at 21:37:39
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Maximus on May 24, 2006, at 20:18:46
Personally, I cringe when I hear the phrase "Patient was non-compliant with treatment plan X"
Compliancy suggests a obediance and submission, which should not be the therapeutic model.
A physician can provide skilled advice, but it is up to the patient to ultimately decide a course of action.
As a result, the patient bears a marked responsibility when it comes to following or rejecting a doctor's advice when it comes to medication.
Taking a medication against or not in accordance with a physician's direction constitutes abuse of that drug. It may sound harsh, but it is true.
That's why communication (and I CAN'T stress this enough!) between the patient and the physician is absolutely essential.
That way the patient won't feel pushed and ordered around and the doctor won't have a patient abusing a drug under their care.
If you can't talk to your physician, the find another one. It may be your choice, but it is also your health.
Posted by Racer on May 24, 2006, at 22:26:24
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Maximus on May 24, 2006, at 20:18:46
> It's a shame that Crazy horse and i have been the only ones to suggest to be compliant with her pdoc. No wonder why so much people here become resistant to treatment.
>
>I've been watching this thread, and purposefully leaving it alone, but I want you to know that I agree. And I wanted to say something. And I even babblemailed Crazy Horse to thank him for saying it.
The last time I said such a thing, though, I felt very much attacked by others who disagreed with my advice. I was the only one in a thread suggesting compliance with the doctor's orders, and the experience left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I also felt attacked on other threads afterwards by a few of the same people.
So, I didn't chime in because I am either a coward, or learning self-protection. Up to you which you think fits better.
Posted by yxibow on May 25, 2006, at 2:21:46
In reply to Compliancy versus abuse, posted by madeline on May 24, 2006, at 21:37:39
> Personally, I cringe when I hear the phrase "Patient was non-compliant with treatment plan X"
>
> Compliancy suggests a obediance and submission, which should not be the therapeutic model.To a tee it may sound so, but it really just means that a patient, paying money for advice, goes to a doctor, who suggests from their knowledge, treatment plan X as you say, and the patient tosses the pills down the garbage disposal. That is what the statement means.
It has nothing to do with submission. It has to do with the saying, you hire a dog to bark, but then you bark yourself.
Sure, a doctor patient relationship should be one of equal communication.I think my doctor summed up our relation with regards to medication once that he, as the one who holds a DEA license and could be in jeopardy of losing it if we went with some bizarre plan that I suggested that he never had skill with, may be in charge with driving the bus, but there's nothing wrong with me, the patient glancing over to make sure he's not making a wrong curve on the steering wheel.
> Taking a medication against or not in accordance with a physician's direction constitutes abuse of that drug. It may sound harsh, but it is true.Completely agreed. And sometimes some of us stray here and there, and I've owned up to taking medication from prior plans.
> That's why communication (and I CAN'T stress this enough!) between the patient and the physician is absolutely essential.
Most assuredly.
> That way the patient won't feel pushed and ordered around and the doctor won't have a patient abusing a drug under their care.Agreed.
> If you can't talk to your physician, the find another one. It may be your choice, but it is also your health.
And its easy to say -- but some people have limited resources to be able to find one. Here in this case, she needs one that accepts Medicaire. In the most sophisticated urban places in this country you may find a handful of doctors who will take it, but its a hard thing to find. If its something she wants to do, its something she will do under her own right.I think that discussing with the nurse practicioner is the right thing and I do hope you hear back from her or your doctor, Jan.
Antipsychotics are not just used for psychosis. However I understand your trepidation. That's why I think I will just finish this thread by saying that you and him are in the same office together. Say something for the time that he gives you. I know you have the power in you to speak up and inquire.
Best wishes
-- Jay
Posted by cecilia on May 25, 2006, at 2:35:38
In reply to Re: Saw PDoc Today What Should I Do?, posted by Maximus on May 24, 2006, at 20:18:46
I also cringe when I hear the word compliance. We're paying the doctor for advice, not to be told what to do like a child. The phrase doctors "orders" also makes me cringe. It's my body, I'm not going to unquestionably follow orders. Philippa's doctor has made it clear that he's an idiot, only a fool would make 3 med changes at the same time. Wasn't he also the one who told her to go from an SSRI to Emsam without a washout period? If Philippa isn't able to get another doctor, she's smart to question the one she's stuck with. Cecilia
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