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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on May 22, 2006, at 22:27:13
A good combo for someone extremely sensitive to stimulant cardio side effects?
Posted by ed_uk on May 23, 2006, at 15:04:10
In reply to desoxyn + coreg, posted by saturn on May 22, 2006, at 22:27:13
Hi Saturn
I don't know of any research which suggests than Desoxyn causes less cardiovascular stimulation than Dexedrine. The evidence seems to be anecdotal at best. Very few people have taken Desoxyn so it's difficult to find information - which tends to come from the same few people.........some of whom haven't even tried it! Opinions RE Desoxyn often come across as being an (excited) blend of myth and fantasy. The efficacy of Desoxyn in the treatment of ADD appears to have received very little study.
Unfortunately, carvedilol tends to cause fatigue - it might not be tolerable for someone who needs a stimulant.
I think it's fair to say than none of the amphetamines (or methylphenidate) are safe RE the cardiovascular system. All tend to raise BP and pulse. Even small increases in BP (over a long period of time) substantially increase the risk of having a stroke. Widespread prescribing of potent sympathomimetics is worrying.
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on May 23, 2006, at 15:06:48
In reply to desoxyn + coreg, posted by saturn on May 22, 2006, at 22:27:13
Hi Saturn :)
I don't know of any research which suggests that Desoxyn causes less cardiovascular stimulation than Dexedrine. The evidence seems to be anecdotal at best. Very few people have taken Desoxyn so it's difficult to find information - which tends to come from the same few people.........some of whom haven't even tried it! Opinions RE Desoxyn often come across as being an (excited) blend of myth and fantasy. The efficacy of Desoxyn in the treatment of ADD appears to have received very little study.
Unfortunately, carvedilol tends to cause fatigue - it might not be tolerable for someone who needs a stimulant.
I think it's fair to say than none of the amphetamines (or methylphenidate) are safe RE the cardiovascular system. All tend to raise BP and pulse. Even small increases in BP (over a long period of time) substantially increase the risk of having a stroke. Widespread prescribing of potent sympathomimetics is worrying.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Paulbwell on May 24, 2006, at 5:06:13
In reply to desoxyn + coreg, posted by saturn on May 22, 2006, at 22:27:13
>
> A good combo for someone extremely sensitive to stimulant cardio side effects?Hey dude,
have you even worked you way thru
-Ritalin
-Adderall
-DexedrineIn ALL there formats?, or do you expect to just be put on Desoxyn immediately?. You won't dude:( sorry, as EDUK said, it's rarely scripted-perhaps ONE of the least scripted meds in the country!! (Thanks 1960's media Methamphetamine hysteria)-althought theres REALLY no reason for this. Dexedrine is considered 'more euphoric by thoes who have taken both-only Desoxyn has a greater 'awake' ability-hence it's greater effiency in Narcolepsy.
To EDUK:
"I think it's fair to say than none of the Amphetamines (or Methylphenidate) are safe RE the cardiovascular system."
Ed-dear boy,Meth/Amphetamines are FAR more likely to cause Heart abnormalities, irregularities.
I'v recently spoken to a sever Narcoleptic chap, who has taken high doses of Desoxyn for 40+ years, and has recently suffered a heart attack-these effects on Meth/amphetamines are documented.
Cheers
Posted by saturn on May 24, 2006, at 6:19:16
In reply to Re: desoxyn + coreg-You wanna try it? » saturn, posted by Paulbwell on May 24, 2006, at 5:06:13
> >
> > A good combo for someone extremely sensitive to stimulant cardio side effects?
>
> Hey dude,
>
> have you even worked you way thru
>
> -Ritalin
> -Adderall
> -Dexedrine
>
> In ALL there formats?,I've been through all of them. Maybe not every single XR formulation available, but enough.
>> or do you expect to just be put on Desoxyn immediately?. You won't dude:( sorry, as EDUK said, it's rarely scripted-perhaps ONE of the least scripted meds in the country!!
Respectfully, Paulbwell, I don't expect anything, but I do know that I am able to get a script for Desoxyn. I am very aware of all the red tape involved.
(> To EDUK:
>
>>"I think it's fair to say than none of the Amphetamines (or Methylphenidate) are safe RE the cardiovascular system."
> >Ed-dear boy,Meth/Amphetamines are FAR more likely to cause Heart abnormalities, irregularities.Far more likely than what?
> >I've recently spoken to a sever Narcoleptic chap, who has taken high doses of Desoxyn for 40+ years, and has recently suffered a heart attack-these effects on Meth/amphetamines are documented.Lots of people have heart attacks. Studies on the effects of meth do not generally involve therapeutic doses or routes of administration. I'm not saying it's good for you, but there's a difference between reasonable therapeutic use and abuse.
Cheers
Posted by Paulbwell on May 24, 2006, at 6:25:32
In reply to Re: desoxyn + coreg-You wanna try it? » Paulbwell, posted by saturn on May 24, 2006, at 6:19:16
> > >
> > > A good combo for someone extremely sensitive to stimulant cardio side effects?
> >
> > Hey dude,
> >
> > have you even worked you way thru
> >
> > -Ritalin
> > -Adderall
> > -Dexedrine
> >
> > In ALL there formats?,
>
> I've been through all of them. Maybe not every single XR formulation available, but enough.
>
> >> or do you expect to just be put on Desoxyn immediately?. You won't dude:( sorry, as EDUK said, it's rarely scripted-perhaps ONE of the least scripted meds in the country!!
>
> Respectfully, Paulbwell, I don't expect anything, but I do know that I am able to get a script for Desoxyn. I am very aware of all the red tape involved.
>
> (> To EDUK:
> >
> >>"I think it's fair to say than none of the Amphetamines (or Methylphenidate) are safe RE the cardiovascular system."
>
>
> > >Ed-dear boy,Meth/Amphetamines are FAR more likely to cause Heart abnormalities, irregularities.
>
> Far more likely than what?
>
> > >I've recently spoken to a sever Narcoleptic chap, who has taken high doses of Desoxyn for 40+ years, and has recently suffered a heart attack-these effects on Meth/amphetamines are documented.
>
> Lots of people have heart attacks. Studies on the effects of meth do not generally involve therapeutic doses or routes of administration. I'm not saying it's good for you, but there's a difference between reasonable therapeutic use and abuse.
>
> Cheers
>Hi Ya!
So you have tried ALL the stims, perhaps Desoxyn may be the ticket, if you can get it?
Let us know k?
cheers
>
Posted by saturn on May 24, 2006, at 10:11:03
In reply to Re: desoxyn + coreg, posted by ed_uk on May 23, 2006, at 15:04:10
> Hi Saturn
>
> I don't know of any research which suggests than Desoxyn causes less cardiovascular stimulation than Dexedrine. The evidence seems to be anecdotal at best. Very few people have taken Desoxyn so it's difficult to find information - which tends to come from the same few people.........some of whom haven't even tried it! Opinions RE Desoxyn often come across as being an (excited) blend of myth and fantasy. The efficacy of Desoxyn in the treatment of ADD appears to have received very little study.
>
> Unfortunately, carvedilol tends to cause fatigue - it might not be tolerable for someone who needs a stimulant.
>
> I think it's fair to say than none of the amphetamines (or methylphenidate) are safe RE the cardiovascular system. All tend to raise BP and pulse. Even small increases in BP (over a long period of time) substantially increase the risk of having a stroke. Widespread prescribing of potent sympathomimetics is worrying.Hey Ed,
Would you think that these cardiovascular risks could be avoided with the addition of say a drug that reduces sympathomimetic such as Coreg, and/or conversely that a stimulant would offset Coreg's sedating effects?
Thanks,Regards
Sat
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