Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Michael Bell on May 18, 2006, at 23:59:49
Sorry if this seems like a shock thread title, but please bear with me for a minute and I'll explain.
Before using Klonopin and/or Nardil, I suffered from severe SP. Abject terror at the thought of social situations, even among family, avoiding people and parties, constant thoughts of being judged and scrutinized by others - you name it, I had it. Twenty-odd years of this hell.
Then came a long time (several years) of being on klonopin, then klonopin+nardil, and finally just nardil.
My nardil script ran out more than 3wks ago and i decided not to refill it, to take a chance w/o it. I am currently on no meds at all.
Where is my SP? It hasn;t returned yet, neither the overwhelming physical symptoms nor the extreme paranoia. The ruminating thoughts are still there, but they were something that nardil and klonopin didn't eliminate anyway, so I'm not surprised.
So I've started thinking, is it possible that the nardil has permanently curtailed, if not cured, my SP? At first I thought that there was no way this is possible. But then I considered this...
Apparently, learned fear can be eliminated. This is what the new discoveries surrounding Cycloserine deal with, that the partial glycine receptor agonist, combined with exposure therapy, actually eliminates the process of fear being imprinted on your mind, so to speak. So there seems to be some physiological process that causes some people to "learn" fear to a much greater extent than others, and there is also a mechanism that allows them to "unlearn" it.
Experiments with Cycloserine have shown that after a couple weeks of continuous Cycloserine use, the elimination of fear lasts a couple months, then slowly returns. A couple more weeks of usage, and it goes away again for about 2 months. True this is not "permanent", but there is definitely some sort of fundamental restructuring of thought processes occurring, as opposed to just masking symptoms of anxiety.
Is it possible that Nardil use can also effect glycine or other receptors in a way that causes users to "unlearn" their fears on a really fundamental level? After all, why would that effect be unique to Cycloserine? Regarding combining it with exposure therapy, if Nardil decreases SP to the point where you can encounter social situatioins on a daily basis, then every time you are in a social situation isn't that a type of exposure therapy?
Another thought: extended alcohol use can cause permanent changes to the GABA receptors. Is it possible that certain medications could have the same effect after they've been used for a relatively long period of time?
Alot of questions and thinking out loud, sorry about that. But naturally I'm curious about the SP not returning yet.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly do NOT want to ever have SP again, ever!!!
But I'm curious - has anyone taken Nardil, or any drug for that matter, for a very long time, and then noticed that its effects lasted for a long time after discontinuing? Has anyone ever heard of something like this happening with Nardil or another med?
I would love to hear your feedback. Thanks so much.
Posted by lymom3 on May 19, 2006, at 9:16:03
In reply to Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by Michael Bell on May 18, 2006, at 23:59:49
You also learn by doing. I suffered from agoraphobia for over 30 YEARS. I finally found a CBT program that worked for me. The fears of all those places were learned fears. The way that I had to "unlearn" them was by doing. No medication was involved but I would suspect by doing and doing the social situations that your mind may have already decided there is nothing to fear from them.
Posted by Tepiaca on May 19, 2006, at 10:09:54
In reply to Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by Michael Bell on May 18, 2006, at 23:59:49
Hi , I took Nardil for 2 continuos years , then when I stopped I thougth I was cured . It happened something similiar to you . Then after more time the discomfort returned . I thougth I was gonna be able to live without but I was wrong, Im on it again.
I dont wana discorageous, maybe we all are different but that was my case.
Im on Nardil again in these months
Tep
> Sorry if this seems like a shock thread title, but please bear with me for a minute and I'll explain.
>
> Before using Klonopin and/or Nardil, I suffered from severe SP. Abject terror at the thought of social situations, even among family, avoiding people and parties, constant thoughts of being judged and scrutinized by others - you name it, I had it. Twenty-odd years of this hell.
>
> Then came a long time (several years) of being on klonopin, then klonopin+nardil, and finally just nardil.
>
> My nardil script ran out more than 3wks ago and i decided not to refill it, to take a chance w/o it. I am currently on no meds at all.
>
> Where is my SP? It hasn;t returned yet, neither the overwhelming physical symptoms nor the extreme paranoia. The ruminating thoughts are still there, but they were something that nardil and klonopin didn't eliminate anyway, so I'm not surprised.
>
> So I've started thinking, is it possible that the nardil has permanently curtailed, if not cured, my SP? At first I thought that there was no way this is possible. But then I considered this...
>
> Apparently, learned fear can be eliminated. This is what the new discoveries surrounding Cycloserine deal with, that the partial glycine receptor agonist, combined with exposure therapy, actually eliminates the process of fear being imprinted on your mind, so to speak. So there seems to be some physiological process that causes some people to "learn" fear to a much greater extent than others, and there is also a mechanism that allows them to "unlearn" it.
>
> Experiments with Cycloserine have shown that after a couple weeks of continuous Cycloserine use, the elimination of fear lasts a couple months, then slowly returns. A couple more weeks of usage, and it goes away again for about 2 months. True this is not "permanent", but there is definitely some sort of fundamental restructuring of thought processes occurring, as opposed to just masking symptoms of anxiety.
>
> Is it possible that Nardil use can also effect glycine or other receptors in a way that causes users to "unlearn" their fears on a really fundamental level? After all, why would that effect be unique to Cycloserine? Regarding combining it with exposure therapy, if Nardil decreases SP to the point where you can encounter social situatioins on a daily basis, then every time you are in a social situation isn't that a type of exposure therapy?
>
> Another thought: extended alcohol use can cause permanent changes to the GABA receptors. Is it possible that certain medications could have the same effect after they've been used for a relatively long period of time?
>
> Alot of questions and thinking out loud, sorry about that. But naturally I'm curious about the SP not returning yet.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I certainly do NOT want to ever have SP again, ever!!!
>
> But I'm curious - has anyone taken Nardil, or any drug for that matter, for a very long time, and then noticed that its effects lasted for a long time after discontinuing? Has anyone ever heard of something like this happening with Nardil or another med?
>
> I would love to hear your feedback. Thanks so much.
Posted by sweetnlow on May 19, 2006, at 11:47:25
In reply to Re: Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by Tepiaca on May 19, 2006, at 10:09:54
I think nardil actually cleans out the cobwebs in the brain, so to speak, that develop as a result of accumulated stress and negativity.
In my case, I took nardil for a few years for anxiety mostly. It alleviated nearly all my anxiety and lifted my moderate depression and also gave me focus to get tremendous amounts of work done. Also, it cured my overdrinking-- I just lost the urge to get drunk (which acticity was definately causing problems in my life at the time)and I miraculosuly became a social drinker (I know this sounds unusual and that it defies conventional wisdom on drinking problems, but it is true). I was frankly shocked by the efficacy of it!
I stopped taking it about ten years ago, though, because it was causing mucho weight gain.
Anyway, I haven't had any real anxiety since I stopped it. That anxiety problem seems cured completely and I can barely remember what it is like to feel social anxiety; moreover, my drinking never got bad again (though I do have the occasional indiscretion).
These days I do feel slightly to moderately depressed now and then, and basically apathetic, so I started the EMSAM patch the other day.
Good luck to all!
Posted by JaclinHyde on May 19, 2006, at 13:35:21
In reply to Re: Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by sweetnlow on May 19, 2006, at 11:47:25
I have been on MAOI's for over 25 years and I can still remember reading somewhere that this class of drugs are the only ones that the word "cure" can be tacked on to. I came off of Marplan because of weight gain and would have been fine if I hadn't have started Wellbutrin to help with a depression that came on due to real issues. It brought my hypochondria back full force along with a crippling anxiety. So now I am back on Marplan and all the above are gone again. I don't think using the word cure is too far-fetched. It is a miraculous class of drugs.
JH
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2006, at 22:19:17
In reply to Re: Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by JaclinHyde on May 19, 2006, at 13:35:21
In a way you're saying other classes of meds cause Sp and depression. Am I reading you rightLove Phillipa
Posted by JaclinHyde on May 20, 2006, at 10:43:45
In reply to Re: Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP?? » JaclinHyde, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2006, at 22:19:17
No, not at all! I am just saying that most other drugs are not as effective as the MAOI's, not that they 'cause' depression or SP. They just are not considered a 'cure.' Sort of like putting a bandaid on a wound instead of an antibiotic.
JH
Posted by Michael Bell on May 21, 2006, at 8:55:15
In reply to Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by Michael Bell on May 18, 2006, at 23:59:49
Posted by willyee on May 22, 2006, at 18:33:50
In reply to Did Nardil PERMAMENTLY cure my SP??, posted by Michael Bell on May 18, 2006, at 23:59:49
Very interesting post,especialy since i know a lot of people seen that social fear website that lists THE BEST combo flat out is NARDIL/KLONOPIN
with parnate being SECOND,as well as XANAX.I know the orignal poster doesent come around here much,but hopefully hell read this and be able to answer......with such good response,im left wondering what dose of KLONOPIN where u on?
Also even if his symptoms god forbid come back,his combo allowed him to go benzo free for weeks and weeks which might proved the better a set of meds works the easier it is to get off.
I always believe a part of benzo W/D was the person was going off in the midst of the illness still there,not many stories of people feeling totaly in remission and then weaning off.
This is the end of the thread.
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