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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 20:41:29
Am i wrong,or is the ssri luvox the only medication on-label to actualy treat ocd?
I dont mean also that the others are "said" to do so,i believe luvox technicaly treats it,allegedly.
My question is,WHY,i mean one drug,do they not feel OCD is a real enough condition to invest time and effort and money into studying.
Id find that odd since someone though it was to base a top lining show MONK which i btw feel makes a total mockery of the disease and dont find it amusing one single bit.
Were moving at less than a snails rate with emotional disorders,whtehr u agree they require meds or not,or certain class of meds are adeqquate others not.We all have to agree i feel that we are not moving to fast.
And im supposed to sit and wait,lay the outcome of my life on a 12 min med check and if i do other and try to treat myself by working on it 24/7 then im considered careless cause i did not consult with my doc who hardly knows my name,is there something wrong with this picture,how am i the careless one,living with this and doing nothing is careless,its ruthless and relentless and will tear u limb to limb if u put ur guard down and let it.
Posted by john berk on May 2, 2006, at 21:17:49
In reply to OCD, posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 20:41:29
Hi Willyee,
i totally understand your pain, i've had ocd since i was 12, was hospitalized with it at 14, and i still have symptoms, [though somewhat less]
in my 30's!!
I beleive when the company came out with luvox, they used the marketing ploy of saying this drug is primarly for ocd, since there were other drugs as or more effective for depression than luvox!!
prozac in my own opinion is better all around for ocd, and it is used by many pdocs for that purpose.
zoloft and all the ssri's are just as good as luvox for ocd it is just the company was thinking a little ahead of the game in the late 80's i beleive, and put it out as distinctly for ocd.
i have at least 3 friends with moderate to severe ocd, and they either take prozac, anafranil, or zoloft.
I still think cbt therapy combined with meds is best. they say, [and my pdoc agree's] most people only get 40-60 per cent effect from any given drug for ocd. it sux, we do need more work in this field, ocd is a debilitating disease most times!!
hang in will, best of luck...john
oh btw, klonopin really helps with my own ocd most times, though i can't take it before 3 p.m., it is tiring.
Posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 21:48:55
In reply to Re: OCD » willyee, posted by john berk on May 2, 2006, at 21:17:49
Klonopin is definatly one of my most useful tools has been,fortunatly i dont have too much of a sedation problem with it,however i never feel the need to take an entire tab unless there is a specfic reason,i always find biting a partial pieace just as effective most times,and i continue to to do so till i find relieaf and i always have extra come refill time,when i tried to take whole tabs i found myself wanting it more and comming up short of it,which less benifit than taking just small pieaces.
Anyway i know all the ssris are touted to help ocd,and a lot do for a lot of people,unfortunatly after 6 years of being on every one a single time,a time over,in combo etc i can honestly come to the conslusion that i do not tolerate them,i found less than zero reliead in the entire six years on them,least on the maoi i have good moments thrwon in here and there,on ssris it was just pure suffering non stop.
Were all built different arent we?
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2006, at 22:26:26
In reply to Re: OCD, posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 21:48:55
Willyee seriously luvox was marketed in Europe for years for both ocd and depression most sedating of the SSRI's. And virtually no side effects. First time I took 50mg kept waiting for a side effect. None. Got up to 300mg at one point and Bingo depression gone too lot of energy. Unfortunately the studpid pdoc switched me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 3, 2006, at 0:47:12
In reply to OCD, posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 20:41:29
I have OCD, mine consists of obsessions, bothersome thoughts that stick like glue and at times excessive worrying. I don't have the rituals. For me nothing has worked as well for MY OCD as Parnate. With Parnate the bothersome thoughts are about 95% gone, and when they do come i am able to ignore them...they don't "stick" like before. Also, my worrying is so much improved as well.
Monte
Posted by yxibow on May 3, 2006, at 1:25:28
In reply to Re: OCD, posted by Crazy Horse on May 3, 2006, at 0:47:12
I have had OCD since about 12. Obsessions that people at school would know I masturbated. Then there came hoarding. Finally the prior "ick" spread from semen to everything bathroomwise, showerwise, laundry, touching people's hands, cardoors. It is a lifelong illness, but with proper CBT one can overcome the symptoms -- the illness can never be cured. I was hospitalized at 17 for several months to reduce my shower time. It was only after the hospital that I began medication, Prozac at the time it was the primary medication out and it helped as I continued in a day treatment program. I no longer have those washing compulsions -- occasionally I will think in the back of my mind of some things. But basically my shower is down to a 3-5 minute ritual. Nothing terribly pathological about it.
I still have pure obsessions without compulsions -- ruminations, racist thoughts, garbage words and strings of sentences that make no sense floating through my head, especially when I excercise. There's nothing really I can do, especially since I have other polypharmacy on board. I currently take Cymbalta which really doesn't cover OCD all that well. All I can do is just ignore them and consider them something that just floats away in my mind. They are among the most insidious of OCD issues behind severe washing -- it can cause severe anxiety, and yet the content is antithetical (not part of a persons personality). They are sort of tics. Sometimes tics are treated with an older line antipsychotic called Orap (pimozide).
But this is about Luvox -- I can tell you, and agree with Philipa that as the most sedating of SSRIs and with the least of side effects -- at least the least of jumpy side effects, it is very effective for OCD, especially at 400-450mg. It just wasn't marketed too much and became generic for whatever reason. They didnt bother to pursue a proper ANDA with the FDA -- there wasn't any issue with the medication. That's the thing, with SSRIs and people with mostly anxiety and some depression -- you either treat the dysthymia or you treat the anxiety with an SSRI -- its never really both, unless you coadminister a benzodiazepine or in severe cases a small to medium dose of a novel atypical such as Seroquel.
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 3, 2006, at 9:10:12
In reply to Re: OCD » Crazy Horse, posted by yxibow on May 3, 2006, at 1:25:28
> I have had OCD since about 12. Obsessions that people at school would know I masturbated. Then there came hoarding. Finally the prior "ick" spread from semen to everything bathroomwise, showerwise, laundry, touching people's hands, cardoors. It is a lifelong illness, but with proper CBT one can overcome the symptoms -- the illness can never be cured. I was hospitalized at 17 for several months to reduce my shower time. It was only after the hospital that I began medication, Prozac at the time it was the primary medication out and it helped as I continued in a day treatment program. I no longer have those washing compulsions -- occasionally I will think in the back of my mind of some things. But basically my shower is down to a 3-5 minute ritual. Nothing terribly pathological about it.
>
>
> I still have pure obsessions without compulsions -- ruminations, racist thoughts, garbage words and strings of sentences that make no sense floating through my head, especially when I excercise. There's nothing really I can do, especially since I have other polypharmacy on board. I currently take Cymbalta which really doesn't cover OCD all that well. All I can do is just ignore them and consider them something that just floats away in my mind. They are among the most insidious of OCD issues behind severe washing -- it can cause severe anxiety, and yet the content is antithetical (not part of a persons personality). They are sort of tics. Sometimes tics are treated with an older line antipsychotic called Orap (pimozide).
>
>
> But this is about Luvox -- I can tell you, and agree with Philipa that as the most sedating of SSRIs and with the least of side effects -- at least the least of jumpy side effects, it is very effective for OCD, especially at 400-450mg. It just wasn't marketed too much and became generic for whatever reason. They didnt bother to pursue a proper ANDA with the FDA -- there wasn't any issue with the medication. That's the thing, with SSRIs and people with mostly anxiety and some depression -- you either treat the dysthymia or you treat the anxiety with an SSRI -- its never really both, unless you coadminister a benzodiazepine or in severe cases a small to medium dose of a novel atypical such as Seroquel.Yea, i know there is no cure. Mine kinda comes and goes...I've learned a lot from CBT too. Not give them (thoughts) too much importance, to see them as only thoughts and to not fear them, and to ignore them as best as i can. All of these are very difficult and take time.
Have you read the book, "Brain Lock" by, Jeffery M. Schwartz, M.D. A four-Step Self-Treatment Method to Change Your Brain Chemistry ? It's an excellent book teaching how to free yourself from OCD Behavior. I recommend it to everyone who suffers with OCD.
Monte
Posted by ed_uk on May 3, 2006, at 9:28:28
In reply to OCD, posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 20:41:29
Hi Willy,
In the US, the following meds are approved for OCD....
Paroxetine (Paxil)
Fluoxetine (Prozac)
Sertraline (Zoloft)
Fluvoxamine (Luvox)
Clomipramine (Anafranil)Ed
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 3, 2006, at 9:32:54
In reply to Re: OCD » Crazy Horse, posted by yxibow on May 3, 2006, at 1:25:28
After re-reading my above posts it doesn't really sound like my OCD is very severe. I just want explain that i wish this was the case, but unfortunately for me it's not. My OCD because of counseling/developing skills to cope with it, Meds, and God's help is not as severe as it used to be. My thoughts have consisted of harming others, harming myself, doing really bizare and embarassing things in front of others, blasphemous thoughts and the like..on, and on, as you know..they take on a life of their own. Maybe parnate is not helping my ocd as much as i think..LOL, maybe it's just less severe because i feel better in general. :)
Monte
Posted by willyee on May 3, 2006, at 9:44:26
In reply to Re: OCD, posted by Crazy Horse on May 3, 2006, at 0:47:12
Although parnate was and is the only anti depressant to offer any relieaf,the one thing for me it never helped even when it worked great was ocd,it just gave me more mental energy to carry out ocd thinking.BTW i dont have ocd as in actions,more in thinking,in terms of there is always something that needs to be done,relaxing was never an option for me,not while there can be anything to be cleaned or worked on,and of course u can always find something an old closet etc that needs re arranging..
The only thing i can honestly say that wiped my ocd totaly clean at one point was the combination of parnate/kava kava.This however was before all the popular brands were discontinued due to the liver scare,i remeber gnc brand was great.I remeber a particualar day i was set to meet a girl on a sorta blind date,normaly id wanna dress perfect,have butterflies etc.
That day on the combo i remeber i went in a white t shirt yess clean lol and blue jeans,just being ME,i wasnt nervous,and i wasnt petrafied of what she thought of me,i truly felt she could either like me or not,that was her choice,but i was gonna be nothing more than myself,and we walked in a big park here that day and i could have walked forever everything so calm and right.There was no speediness to be somewhere,do something etc.
Now since the liver scare is over,the red warning labels removed,and kava deemed fine,its too late as the big manf already pulled 99 percent of the shelf products and there are like two local brands of it available and they stink.Thankd fda.
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2006, at 18:29:09
In reply to Re: OCD, posted by willyee on May 3, 2006, at 9:44:26
Willyee that almost sounds a little manic? Love Phillipa
Posted by willyee on May 3, 2006, at 18:55:04
In reply to Re: OCD » willyee, posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2006, at 18:29:09
Possable,very possable however anti maniac drugs cause me great harm,go figure oy my head hurts taking it all in
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 3, 2006, at 20:31:16
In reply to Re: OCD » yxibow, posted by Crazy Horse on May 3, 2006, at 9:10:12
> Have you read the book, "Brain Lock" by, Jeffery M. Schwartz, M.D. A four-Step Self-Treatment Method to Change Your Brain Chemistry ? It's an excellent book teaching how to free yourself from OCD Behavior. I recommend it to everyone who suffers with OCD.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 23:53:54
In reply to OCD, posted by willyee on May 2, 2006, at 20:41:29
Our 3 year old son is showing some signs of OCD, I think - he has a particular bear he made at build a bear. He knows he made it, and he HAS to have THAT bear with him. He has a specific blanket, and the faded side has to be facing up when we cover him. He knows if ALL 5 blankets are on him, or if one's missing! Also, his bear has his own blanket, and our son has to have his bears blanket covering bear when they go to bed! It can be done no other way....oh and I forgot his pillow....has to have HIS pillow, if you try to switch them, or wash his, he knows, even though we can't tell them apart!
He just turned 3 in Dec. There are other things, but no quite as bad. I was wondering.....is this OCD?
Thanks,
fw
Posted by Racer on May 4, 2006, at 1:33:27
In reply to Re: How early can OCD start?, posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 23:53:54
Kids go through a lot of stages, including stages where we look at them and say "mental illness?" But it's usually not. At three, he's looking for safety, as he moves into more independence. All that you've described sounds to me as though he's got some reason for these restrictions, some having to do with autonomy, and some maybe having a basis that's real, just not apparent. (You say you can't tell the difference between his pillow and another? But maybe the other pillow has a hard spot? Or smells funny? Or the filling tickles him? If he knows the difference, then he knows the difference, even if you aren't aware of any difference. When you're little, things seem bigger, so a little tiny difference in that pillow could easily seem HUMONGOUS to him.
Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't have OCD when he grows up. But you can cross that bridge IF you get to it. Sufficient unto the day and all that, right?
If you're really worried that this is OCD, talk to your pediatrician. But I think he's probably just fine.
(I keep thinking back to the crazy things I did as a child -- I had left and right socks, for example, and they were NOT interchangeable -- but then I realize, I am obsessive, and compulsive, although I don't have OCD per se... Guess it's not comforting to use me as an example...)
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 4, 2006, at 8:55:40
In reply to Re: How early can OCD start?, posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 23:53:54
I have heard of children displaying OCD symptoms/tendencies at age 3. However, I don't think from what you are describing that your son has OCD. Children (as well as adults) like to feel secure. They like the same old banket, stuffed animal, or a particular toy that gives them a feeling of comfort and familiarity And most children have routines (not obsessions) that bring them a sense of comfort and consistency in their lives. I think you are wise to be concerned, but I think what you are describing is pretty normal behavior for a 3 year old. :)
Monte
Posted by Declan on May 4, 2006, at 16:59:20
In reply to Re: How early can OCD start?, posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 23:53:54
I don't think so FW, except in the sense that it is normal to have OCD; which having read this thread I find myself feeling. Wouldn't it be better to see your son's attachments as characteristic of 3yo children. Transitional objects, Linus's blanket? There is no such thing as normal, IMO.
It is of course natural for you to worry.
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on May 4, 2006, at 20:15:08
In reply to Re: How early can OCD start?, posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 23:53:54
Fairywings he sounds like a normal three year old. Having had three kids they all had something they had to have usually at bedtime to make them feel safe. My oldest had to have her pacifier one in each hand and one in her mouth. Today she is a VP of a bank so she's okay. My Son had a favorite elephant stuffed he sucked on it's trunk til he fell asleep. My youngest had multiple things she needed in a special place when she was young. She went as far as if I washed her sheets and put them back on her bed she got angry took them off and put them on the way she liked them. And today her place is a mess and she's a legal assistant. So I wouldn't worry about it. Usually give up when able to go outside by themselves and play with friends or go to a nursery school a few days a week. Love Phillipa
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